Nietzsche was right, and God is dead… for most people

So basically, close my eyes and try my best to think something I've never never seen before? And when I do so see that thing, that will be the proof of your version of God? But if I'm unlucky, I won't see it, and so I'll never have the proof. Is that all correct?

Correct with many limitations your brain added to the equation.

I have told you 1 technique to do this, just 1. There are many techniques, only in the "Vigyan Bhairav Tantra" you will find 112 techniques. “Zen” masters teach that “there is no technique”, this last one is obviously popular in our society, since most people don’t want to do anything. But the “don´t do anything” thought, is the final purpose of all the techniques, people that manage to do that without a technique, are very advanced in meditation practices.
Like a Zen teacher once said: “Not doing anything at a given moment is just as hard as trying to do everything at a given moment”.

Osho taught that among the 112 techniques given by Shiva 5000 years ago written in the "Vigyan Bhairav Tantra", at least 1 will be suitable for you. Some techniques in this book are even contradictory, and this is because everyone is different, and each person should be able to find at least 1 technique that suits his comfort.

For example, one of the most widely used techniques is the one of the sky meditation. Look at the sky in a summer day, try to imagine your brain as the sky. The clouds are like your thoughts, and you are able to “clear the clouds of your brain”, just by imagining the clear sky in your head. Not just imaging it, becoming the clear sky in your mind.
 
This is getting kind of interesting. Can you tell me more about the God in your belief?
 
This is getting kind of interesting. Can you tell me more about the God in your belief?
Sorry for the extensive answer, but you know this can’t be elaborated in just a few lines (at least not in a way I can think of at this time).

The Buddha said: "Do not believe in anyone just because he is a teacher, he speaks eloquently or is otherwise impressive. Do not even believe in my words - just because I said them, but try to experience everything by yourself. Only if you experience the Dharma by yourself does it become your wisdom. Belief is only belief, not knowing, not wisdom. If you experience things yourself then no-one can tell you that it is not like that, because you know it from your own experience."

Gautama Buddha also said: “You can ask me about anything, but do not ask me about God”.

God is not a concept you can put into words, for some, God is just a concept they create in order to have someone to blame, and not take the heat of guilt for themselves.

What I believe is just that, and what you believe is just as important to you. I cannot tell you that what you believe is wrong, and you cannot tell that to me either. If you believe or not in God, that is because of what you have experienced; same rule applies to believers and non-believers.
Some say they believe in God so much, but they are only fooling themselves, and they go to churches or go to other people in order to see others that feel the same, and not feel so alone in this line of thought. But yet, they do this for comfort, to see others in the same situation as they are, and they don’t even trust the God they say they believe so much. Do you know how to tell who is in this situation? Well, those “theists” who get angry when you tell them there is no God, that’s a person who is fooling himself.
Anger comes from your ego, everything that is not what you have experienced, but someone tells you that is truth, and you adopt that truth for yourself, you adopt it in the form of “ego”. It is a very hard thing to achieve, to understand your own “ego”; mainly because it trashes almost everything you believe in and this cause you to feel anger.

See it this way, when you are born, you have no ego. This is the best way to understand the ego, to see how it just doesn´t want you to live in the present time, the ego will never let you live now as now, to “smell the roses” sort of speak. The moment you “stop and smell the roses”, you are meditating; you are getting to know your true self behind this ego.
So you live in the present, a baby never thinks about the future, or the past, a baby only lives in the present time. It is a very hard thing to achieve, to live in the present time, and that is what meditation is all about.
The moment you start thinking about future goals or things to accomplish, it is your ego working. The moment you start thinking about past memories or experiences, even if it took place earlier this day, it is your ego working.

The state of enlightment so much revered in orient, is just a state of an ego-less self.

Jesus, Gautama, Mahavira, Krishna, Shiva, Mohammed were ego-less beings, they were Buddhas, Christs; they understood the ego, and got rid of it, they were their own true-self. They spoke the truth in other words, not everything they were taught by others, and they spoke what they experienced for themselves.
Jesus called the ego as “Satan”, that is how Christians know the ego, they just don´t know the full concept. Do you seriously think Jesus was tempted in the dessert in a conversation with Satan? That means Jesus was tempted by his ego, Jesus himself had an ego, and he had to vanish it in order to follow his true-self. Jesus went 40 days to the dessert in order to achieve this. Jesus had an intense following, and he chose voluntary death, why? If you have an ego, you would not be able to do this my friend, I encourage you to take a look at the following passage on which Jesus was tempted by the Devil, and tell me if it makes sense to you as it does to me in this matter:

“Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.
Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.” (Matthew 4,8)


For me, Satan is the ego, and Jesus himself was tempted to follow it. All men succumb to it at a given time of our life, sometimes, we don’t even know our true self for “bowing down and worshiping our ego” so much.
 
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I would've probably been disappointed if you hadn't given an extensive answer. Unfortunately I'm at work and don't have the time for a nice long read and response, but I will once I'm home. But thank you for taking the time to respond.
 
From what I can understand from your response, it seems you don't believe in "God" at all. I put that in quotations marks because my intention is to refer to only the mainstream view of it, that being the God of one of the three religions of the book. Rather, you believe in enlightenment, the ego-less, being the pinnacle of a human being.

Please let me know if I'm wrong on that account.

However, I do have a few problems.

Wisdom_Seeker said:
I cannot tell you that what you believe is wrong

Haven't you done that repeatedly in this forum concerning specific views on God? Just in the post that I'm referring to, you state that when you are born you have no ego. That directly clashes with the concept of original sin.

Wisdom_Seeker said:
Jesus, Gautama, Mahavira, Krishna, Shiva, Mohammed were ego-less beings

Wisdom_Seeker said:
The moment you start thinking about future goals or things to accomplish, it is your ego working. The moment you start thinking about past memories or experiences, even if it took place earlier this day, it is your ego working.

Jesus and Mohammed both spoke of the past and the future. According to you, that's their ego working. But also according to you, they're ego-less. How does that work?

If I'm correct about your views, would you please do me a favor and stop calling enlightenment "god"? I understand that might be the term you like to use, but it simply doesn't fit any definition of God or a god. It's like me talking to you, and saying oranges but meaning plastic bottles.

god (gŏd) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.
 
From what I can understand from your response, it seems you don't believe in "God" at all. I put that in quotations marks because my intention is to refer to only the mainstream view of it, that being the God of one of the three religions of the book. Rather, you believe in enlightenment, the ego-less, being the pinnacle of a human being.

Please let me know if I'm wrong on that account.

However, I do have a few problems.

Haven't you done that repeatedly in this forum concerning specific views on God? Just in the post that I'm referring to, you state that when you are born you have no ego. That directly clashes with the concept of original sin.





Jesus and Mohammed both spoke of the past and the future. According to you, that's their ego working. But also according to you, they're ego-less. How does that work?

If I'm correct about your views, would you please do me a favor and stop calling enlightenment "god"? I understand that might be the term you like to use, but it simply doesn't fit any definition of God or a god. It's like me talking to you, and saying oranges but meaning plastic bottles.

god (gŏd) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

You are wrong, I do believe in God. All gods and denominations and miracles are manifestations of the only true thing, which is God.

God is everything, matter and non-matter, dualism, everything. God is within each and every one of us, it is our intrinsic attribute as living creatures.

Enlightened people like Jesus, Gautama, etc.. have been the only ones who truly knew God, as they found Him within themselves. None of the enlightened people actually described God, because it is not a concept you can easily put into words. You can experience it thought, and there are many ways…

If you don’t want to believe this, then just don’t believe it, it is simple. If you don’t believe this, then it is of no use to you, you need to trust things not believe them.
 
And about Jesus and Mohammed speaking of the past and future, is because they spoke in a language for people to understand them. If they only would have spoken about the present, they would have been just poets of nature.
 
You are wrong, I do believe in God. All gods and denominations and miracles are manifestations of the only true thing, which is God.

God is everything, matter and non-matter, dualism, everything. God is within each and every one of us, it is our intrinsic attribute as living creatures.

Enlightened people like Jesus, Gautama, etc.. have been the only ones who truly knew God, as they found Him within themselves. None of the enlightened people actually described God, because it is not a concept you can easily put into words. You can experience it thought, and there are many ways…

If you don’t want to believe this, then just don’t believe it, it is simple. If you don’t believe this, then it is of no use to you, you need to trust things not believe them.

I'm sorry Widsom_Seeker, I'm just having the hardest time wrapping my head around this. God is everything? Do you mean God = the universe? Right now it's not so much a matter of me believing it, I'm not trying to get you to convince me of it's truth. I'm trying to get a better idea as to what you're talking about when you're referring to God.

Does your version of God fit any of the definitions I listed?

god (gŏd) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.
 
God has the faculty of speech and hearing, though us and every human.
so why doesn't he have the faculty independent from humans (after all, it is commonly accepted that humans emanate from him)



You are right about that, but inside us there are many personalities. One minute you are someone, the other minute you are someone else. The funny thing is, that which affects you in a negative way, like something that provokes an anger response in you, is that which is preconditioned in you by your ego.
The words of God are in every one of us, deep in there, he speaks to us in our dreams…
Enlightened people are those who speak the complete truth of God, that which is intrinsic in every human, they manage to taste it first hand.
thats okay, but its still doesn't necessitate that god be blind, deaf and dumb in order to fulfill this ability in enlightened people
 
I'm sorry Widsom_Seeker, I'm just having the hardest time wrapping my head around this. God is everything? Do you mean God = the universe? Right now it's not so much a matter of me believing it, I'm not trying to get you to convince me of it's truth. I'm trying to get a better idea as to what you're talking about when you're referring to God.

Does your version of God fit any of the definitions I listed?

god (gŏd) Pronunciation Key
n.

1. God
a. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
b. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol.
4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.
5. A very handsome man.
6. A powerful ruler or despot.

I’m sorry if I sounded rough in my answer, sometimes I lack the ability to make statements that demonstrated my state of emotion of the moment. I was not offended by your words or angry in any way, I’m actually a very peaceful person, and you have to try hard if you want to insult me; even then, I would be grateful for your insults because they show me my own ego, so it’s all good.

My understanding of god so far is kinda different from those options so I’ll have to grasp the concept a little bit here:

- First and most important characteristic of God is that he is unknowable. Meaning we cannot possibly understand him entirely. This is tough for some people, who cannot live with a concept they cannot understand; it hurts their egos to know there is something out there much greater than our intelligence.

- That which is above is from that which is below, and that which is below is from that which is above, working the miracles of one thing. This is my understanding of “God said: Let us make man in our image, after our likeness” Genesis 1:26), and “May your kingdom come. May what you want to happen be done on earth as it is done in heaven.” (Matthew 6:10)

- Look at it this way, everything there is, that which we see, and that which we do not see, put together into 1 concept, is called God. God is the unification of everything, and it is manifested in our realm through dualism. But God is neither one nor the other side of dualism; God is both aspects of dualism in One and only concept.

- God cannot equal the Universe, because there is always a counterpart of a concept, the concept of God contains the Universe intrinsically, but Universe alone does not define God.

- The “Tao-Te-Ching” defines God as “Dao”, but it does not call it “God” because in our heads, there is already a concept of “God”, so Lao-Tzu invented the word “Dao” to avoid this confusion. Gods there may be many in our heads, but as he invented it, there is only One “Dao”. As he puts it beautifully: “The Dao seems to be even before God…”. This last statement is Lao-Tzu´s way to mock our concept of God, because if God IS, then he was never born or he will never die, God IS eternal.

So God is everything, and God is nothing; because the word “everything” alone has a counterpart, which is “nothing”, and God is the unification of this dualism.
 
so why doesn't he have the faculty independent from humans (after all, it is commonly accepted that humans emanate from him)

thats okay, but its still doesn't necessitate that god be blind, deaf and dumb in order to fulfill this ability in enlightened people

God has the faculty of independent from humans man, but God do not speak in common language. Do you think a force or being with inconceivable wisdom will speak "human"? I think yes, but not through the clouds in a loud voice like in the movies man. God speaks through mountains, through air, through water, through our emotions...

Haven’t you seen that the water alone nourish us all living creatures, and do not ask for anything in return, except compassion to all living creatures? This is just one of the infinite voices of God.

thats okay, but its still doesn't necessitate that god be blind, deaf and dumb in order to fulfill this ability in enlightened people

Are you saying that enlightened people are blind, deaf and dumb?
 
Wisdom_Seeker:

So now my understanding is that you don't believe in a god, but you believe in what Tao-Te-Ching referred to as the Dao, and you simply call it God. Did I get it this time?
 
Wisdom_Seeker:

So now my understanding is that you don't believe in a god, but you believe in what Tao-Te-Ching referred to as the Dao, and you simply call it God. Did I get it this time?

Well kinda, yeah you can say that. But I had this understanding before I even read Lao-Tzu´s Tao-Te-Ching, when I read it, it just made sense for me.

On the other hand, you cannot limit the concept of God to just that one book; I didn´t even learn it from there, its just easier to explain the concept based on the words of Lao-Tzu.
 
Wisdom Seeker the way you see things is very interesting

I agree. He takes a very rational, common sense view to spirituality and the supernatural; which is very hard to rationally explain to begin with.
Plus he has an open mind view about his views as well; something you will see in very few followers of 'other' faiths.
 
"I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are murderers.... God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him... "

Nietzsche was saying the rather awful Christian version of god was of no further use.

Needless to say 19th century thinkers grossly underestimated human stupidity.
 
"I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. All of us are murderers.... God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him... "

Nietzsche was saying the rather awful Christian version of god was of no further use.

Needless to say 19th century thinkers grossly underestimated human stupidity.
Well, I'm sure you're familiar with what Einstein said:
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
:D

Hey dude, where can I find out more about what Nietzsche believed? All the Google searches just point to different pieces in his books. I want to know more specifically about his personal beliefs and what they meant.
He's right. The Christian god IS of no further use to society, the Muslim one is also useless.
 
Well, I'm sure you're familiar with what Einstein said:
:D

Hey dude, where can I find out more about what Nietzsche believed? All the Google searches just point to different pieces in his books. I want to know more specifically about his personal beliefs and what they meant.
He's right. The Christian god IS of no further use to society, the Muslim one is also useless.

Nietzche regarded to "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" as his best work.

But beware of Nietzsche, he was above common consciousness, but below the consciousness of a Buddha. Meaning he can only help you up to a certain degree, unlike Gautama Buddha or Jesus.
 
Well Nietzsche talks about living in the "here and now", to forget otherworldly dreams. If you seek heaven then you should help build it here in this reality we KNOW. I still think Buddha and Jesus try to fool people(with very good intentions) to behave themselves. Buddha and Jesus have these perfect lives and no one can really emulate to even relate to. Nietzsche teaches we should do this for our "own" interests, he gives something a little more within the collective grap of humankind(but still pretty fuckin far off), Jesus and Buddhas are pretty far off for the vast majority of people to even come close to achiving. Many people are fooling themselves and wasting time trying to achive impossible ideals and due to time, messages being corrupted, may be even following something Jesus or the Buddhas would be disgusted with.

Mike, here is a good start. If you like more, any library will have the other books:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Author:Friedrich_Nietzsche
 
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