News from the Colonies - America's War in Iraq

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Oh well, Ive decided that the war in iraq is not the fault of the president, who is mostly influenced by the Kings of the World. (the large corperations)

The war in iraq isn't my problem, so I don't care what happens on that side of the world, besides, we don't have accurate information as to what is going on there, the media is not reliable.
 
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Is it too late in the discussion to point out that some of us already have gotten more than what we originally wanted, even as the rest of you angstfully fret over your own collective inability to shape the debate, if not the agenda?
 
OliverJ said:
Iraqi civilians killed this year by Islamic Terrorists
1,879

Iraqi civilians killed collaterally by Americans
23


bla bla thetruth bla bla isnever bla bla posted bla bla here bla bla onthis bla bla forum bla bla
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Iraqis killed by Americans 100,000+ since 2003 and loads more since 1991. Not to mention afghanistan
 
manmadeflyingsaucer said:
Oh well, Ive decided that the war in iraq is not the fault of the president, who is mostly influenced by the Kings of the World. (the large corperations)

The war in iraq isn't my problem, so I don't care what happens on that side of the world, besides, we don't have accurate information as to what is going on there, the media is not reliable.
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Those motivated by keeping mankind in the bonds of slavery, establish a heirarchy of representatives for the common people.
True government is from within, and is done in the Spirit of service.
 
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Yes, thats why we must develope a way to allow the people to vote DIRECTLY upon bills and such. There must be a way to at least allow the head of every household the ability to vote on bills, but not electronically. The votes would be flown to their counting location. With people to oversee and make sure no one does anything tricky, Im convinced that in this modern age of technology, we can figure something out so that we don't need congress anymore. Or something along those lines, maybe congress/senate would still be there, but the people would be able to have accumulative votes....
 
Anybody take a good look at those pictures, I see no city streets, what I see are Quanset Huts in the background, movement controal gates for a detention faculity, and yes it looks like either these are new detaines just coming from processing, note the combat uniforms of escorts, to supply for clothing and bedding, (you don't allow POWs to bring anything into security compound) or yes their being escorted to or from the shower, could also be that there was some kind of problem and their being escorted to solitery confinement, but this is not parading them down the city streets.
 
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Source: CNN.com (AP)
Link: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/13/military.suicides.ap/index.html
Title: "Report: Mentally ill troops forced into combat"
Date: May 13, 2006

Oh, damn. Did I really just read the headline?

U.S. military troops with severe psychological problems have been sent to Iraq or kept in combat, even when superiors have been aware of signs of mental illness ....

.... The Hartford Courant, citing records obtained under the federal Freedom of Information Act and more than 100 interviews of families and military personnel, reported numerous cases in which the military failed to follow its own regulations in screening, treating and evacuating mentally unfit troops from Iraq ....

.... The paper reported that some service members who committed suicide in 2004 or 2005 were kept on duty despite clear signs of mental distress, sometimes after being prescribed antidepressants with little or no mental health counseling or monitoring. Those findings conflict with regulations adopted last year by the Army that caution against the use of antidepressants for "extended deployments" ....

.... "I can't imagine something more irresponsible than putting a soldier suffering from stress on (antidepressants), when you know these drugs can cause people to become suicidal and homicidal," said Vera Sharav, president of the Alliance for Human Research Protection, a New York-based advocacy group. "You're creating chemically activated time bombs" ....

.... Commanders, not medical professionals, have final say over whether a troubled soldier is retained in a war zone ....

(Commander Elspeth) Ritchie acknowledged that some deployment practices, such as sending service members diagnosed with post-traumatic stress syndrome back into combat, have been driven in part by a troop shortage.

"The challenge for us ... is that the Army has a mission to fight. And, as you know, recruiting has been a challenge," she said. "And so we have to weigh the needs of the Army, the needs of the mission, with the soldiers' personal needs."

CNN.com (AP)
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None of the usual barbs suit the occasion. You know, the ones about the "all-volunteer force".

Should I gloat that the war is a perfect disaster? Gloating seems excessive. This is what "imperial democracy" gets us. The suicides are suicides, and as much as I mourn them, at least we know Sisyphus isn't happy. More than that, though, I wonder if this might eventually lead to international outcry as American courts acquit war criminals under an insanity defense.

And it's not even the pride that bugs me, but the spectre of further senseless carnage.

There are no atheists in foxholes, they say? Then God help them all in this tragic war. And God be damned for willing it in the first place.

Remember, though, the brass who send out the mentally ill will most likely not be held responsible for whatever insanity might happen.

And more than the dead alone, the loss of justice will wound humanity.
___________________

Notes:

Associated Press. "Report: Mentally ill troops forced into combat". CNN.com, May 13, 2006. See http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/13/military.suicides.ap/index.html
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Combat is stress, when some one is trying to kill you you become stressed, when you have to do the totaly foreign thing of killing another human being you become stressed, if you do not expirence stress under those condition you are not human, you are a anamal and you definitely don't want those people in combat, I have been there and know what it is like, and you definitly don't want the human anamal's in combat like all rouges they are as dangerous to you as to the enemy. So yes, do to mission requirement you may have to continue your mission under stress, it still saves more live than it costs, sad as it is to contemplate but those are the facts of combat.
 
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It is my understanding of the situation that the military accounts for the fact that "combat is stress" in developing their psychological guidelines. That the military is in such straits as to deviate from its own policies as such is, indeed, an interesting fact of combat.
 
Those are the facts of unjustified combat. After V-J Day, the legions of America's "Greatest Generation" came back with no comparable proportion of disorders like suicidalism.

Conspicuously unjust war is counterproductive on so many national levels, including the mental readiness of our troops to actually defend the country and not an elite cabal.
 
No hypewaders you are wrong there, I suffer from PTSD, back then it was known as Shell Shock, Combat Fatigue, and there were troops that comited suicide in service and after they returned home, this I know from the courses that VA taught me to help deal with combat stress(PTSD), It was the Israelies who frist developed treatment programs for this problem in the modern eara wich the VA and the Army finally recgonised in the late 70's and thanks to these programs I've managed to learn to some what deal with the aftermath of combat, also called suvivors guilt syndrome. I still have to take care of my self and follow the programs but this is a problem that has affected anyone who has ever been in combat throught history, hopefully you eventually learn to live with it.
 
I went and CK my notes, some other factors on the difference between WWII and after is the length of time on the line and in combat, sence Korea the amount of time on the line and in combat has risen dramaticly, A WWII combat soldier in 4yrs saw about 14 days of combat, 30 days on the line, by Vietnam this had risen to 30 days in combat and 200 day on the line, with some units doing far more, in a year, the type of combat also changed in that there were no front line and you could come under attack at any time, My own personal observation is, that the liberal mind set of that when you cut any were in the budget you cut the military first, and that they fight to keep the military as small as possable causes this problem, because you don't have proper rotation of combat troops, (as an aside I know what one of the counter arguements is going to be LET SEE if I'm right?) we now in most cases don't have a battle line, or a rear area that is a secure area to R&R off the line. the other problem is the speed n wich you are throwen into combat and then with drawn to normal life, no decompression time to sort things out in your mind before you have to be normal, Just a few thoughts of a man old beyound his age.
 
Valid thoughts, but I think for Americans as soldiers and civilians, we are even more insulated from war now than in prior conflicts, which increases the psychological discord. I'm not sure that dining at an imported McDonald's within an American fortress improves the psyche of troops who have witnessed or even participated in the killing of Iraqi bystanders on the same day.

"hypewaders you are wrong there" (that conspicuously unjust war is counterproductive to the mental readiness of our troops)

In managing PTSD, you never learned that the injustice of the killing you witnessed was an important aspect of the problem?

BTW, I deal with PTSD myself after experiences in Lebanon.

Some background from Disabled American Veterans:
The pattern of neuropsychiatric disorder for combatants of World War II and Korea was quite different than for Vietnam. For both World War II and the Korean War, the incidence of neuropsychiatric disorder among combatants increased as the intensity of the wars increased. As these wars wore down, there was a corresponding decrease in these disorders until the incidence closely resembled the particular prewar periods. The prolonged or delayed symptoms noticed during the postwar periods were noted to be somewhat obscure and few in numbers; therefore, no great significance was attached to them. However, the Vietnam experience proved different. As the war in Vietnam progressed in intensity, there was no corresponding increase in neuropsychiatric casualties among combatants. It was not until the early 1970s, when the war was winding down, that neuropsychiatric disorders began to increase. With the end of direct American troop involvement in Vietnam in 1973, the number of veterans presenting neuropsychiatric disorders began to increase tremendously
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Forgiving oneself for coming through horror is key to the healing. A society that popularly vindicated in war provides a much more healing environment in this sense.

I believe that the popular aggrandizement, and "honoring" of personal acts of war is decreasing over history. Which has removed a great deal of psychological cushion for the returning soldier. In the last century, Total War changed world opinion a great deal on the glories vs. the viciousness of war. In the American experience, unpopular and unecessary wars have also impacted the concept of a "good" war. A return to normal life after living through horrors is no simple adjustment in any case, but it is eased when society generally considers the horrors as having been necessary, unavoidable, beneficial, and just. America's latest wars have not been as morally defensible as for example WW2.
 
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Or is it that socity hase become so politicaly correct that it fails to recognise the sacrifice of the soldier and the need to defend ourselves and friend in a world of brutial realities, the steady rise of PTSD also mirrors the steady assult on the Military and soldiers who serve of the radical left peace movement, and liberals in general? As I have discused in my groups the war is not what really bothers me the real problem is dum assed civilian who don't know what their talking about because they don't know the whole story and don't care about anything but their own little oppinion as shaped by their little PC correct world, insted of the real nasty realities of the real world, they talk about the horrers as if they have real expearence, but they have ever done is lived in comforte free from fear and terror and for their lives, and have never seen a close friend die from the effect of brutal terroist, and who should they be thanking for this, their fellow Peace Niks, or the soldiers that they denigrate with such vigor and gusto and inevery way dispise.
 
Please understand that on today's battlegrounds, people live. They live in their little worlds, and the "real nasty realities of the real world" are imported by the fighters. Don't deign to hold some special combat higher nobility that unblooded civilians cannot comprehend. To have killed another human being, and to have witnessed the killing of close friends, necessarily demand -by virtue of our mental viscera- that we examine the justification; the meaning of horror. Sometimes our first comforting answers that we initially hold onto so tightly turn out to be temporary shields.

With shields down, consider if you could be exagerrating the actual level of public (or Liberal) disgust at soldiers. Respect for living and dead soldiers is not in significant dispute in the USA, regardless of political perspectives. I'm sure there is a better outlet that addresses the agonies we struggle with the memories of, than to assume that others cannot understand.

War does accelerate human traumas, but it does not hold the patent. If we sent only one soldier to a war, and he literally experienced all horrors of horrors, he would still return to a reality where insanity, injustice, agony, and death all occur daily in unsung drama, and he would come home to a reality where there does exist a healing understanding, if not an absolving redemption.
 
No I don't think I am exagerrating the lefts disgust at soldiers, I have seen it personally, I have read the coments in the news, I have expearenced in the sucides of friends that were not allowed to return to socity to heal and become normal as possable, I have seen it in the comments of the liberal politition pandering to the anti war radicals, I see it in the constant attemps to demonize the current administration for protecting us from attacks by the Islamo Fasciste, that want to turn the world into a muslim, shria' ruled world, and all its going to take is not understanding that these people are serious and take the pressure off of them for them to suceed, if you want I can past this site full of news articiles of the reports of all the crazy vietnam veteran that massacered Schools , Mc Donalds, Post Offices, and Churchs, only when the story was fully told it wasn't Vietnam Veterans that were invlouved it was some kind of wantaa be, but were the corrections ever posted, yes may be but some were in the back of the paper were nobody really notices. Right now today if you would go visite Walter Reed Hospital, you would see you liberals out there harassing our wounded soldier who have returned from the war, and the language that is directed at these young Heros should answer your question!
 
They are just as sick as moveon.org, and any other fanatical cult, they don't like you or me and believe that we are destined for hell, it's their belief, and as long as they don't kill anyone so what, But I Will tell you That I have attended several funerals for Soldier Who Gave Their Lives For This Country, and formed a human shield to keep these people away from the mourning families, the disgust I have for these peopl is greater than my distain for the wacky left.
 
my favorite part is seeing the lady tell Sean Hannity that her god is so mad "smoke is coming out his ears"

These people make me sick. While they sit and spew whatever crap they can get out about the glory of dead soldiers, a soldier is getting killed defending them.

Sick
 
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