You do realise that's a "pro-Israel" caricature, right?
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You do realise that's a "pro-Israel" caricature, right?
It doesn't take unusual imagination to visualize the mauled bodies of Palestinians who were not terrorists, just outside the frame of this facile chuckle. The world increasingly recognizes that this lion has problems with targeting only the enemies threatening his cub; he's a tortured rogue with Hitler's brand burned into his shoulder. And yes, the spluttering terrorist is fucked-up too. Neither one of them are helping the next generation.
While philosophers debating the pros and cons of this lion, and how terrible it is the lion has to kill, he is still tasked with saving his cub so that there is a next generation.
It is terrible, and it keeps happening because we allow rogues and terrorists enough prominence to fool us into thinking we're separate species, with separate instincts and desires, and with separate solutions. That's the crucial fallacy of this cartoon and the fight over Israel/Palestine.
Here is the biggest difference between normal peoples and these disgusting shit-for-brains terrorists:
http://totalrecoil.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/suicide-bombers-you-love-life-we-love-death/
That is sub-human. That is sub-cockroach. That is a terrible fact that leaves the lion no choice.
We are separate. Every culture separates people.
Not into apartheid/bantustans. The world should no more be divided up by ethnicities than by taste in music. Unless it's really, really shitty music.
Israel is ethnically diverse.
Very harshly and selectively... token diversity
No, Israel stretches the concept of diversity beyond the normal meaning. Israel tolerates a certain level of diversity only so long as it does not rival Jewish state identity. Diversity implies tolerance for the natural (not engineered or enforced) distribution of ethnicities. Diversity also implies equal societal protections among ethnicities.
No, Israel stretches the concept of diversity beyond the normal meaning. Israel tolerates a certain level of diversity only so long as it does not rival Jewish state identity. Diversity implies tolerance for the natural (not engineered or enforced) distribution of ethnicities. Diversity also implies equal societal protections among ethnicities.
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Hype... you remind me of a fundie - you are full of righteous anger, but don't know what you're talking about.
Israel is probably more diverse than Toronto. There are immigrants from over 100 nations in Israel. All successfully (by and large) absorbed. People who are faced with so much multi culturalism by definition have a friendly outlook towards the unfamiliar. I think it is you who lives in a mental batustan, divorced from reality.
Don't be intellectually lazy. Research. Do the leg work and find out. It's easy to be cynical and to destroy language and meanings. You're diminishing the Apartheid's crimes by calling Israeli apartheid. You are diminishing the Nazi crimes when you compare Israelis to Nazis.
Come on. Prove to yourself that you are not as lazy as you know you are.
Israel is probably more diverse than Toronto. There are immigrants from over 100 nations in Israel. All successfully (by and large) absorbed. People who are faced with so much multi culturalism by definition have a friendly outlook towards the unfamiliar. I think it is you who lives in a mental batustan, divorced from reality.
Don't be intellectually lazy. Research. Do the leg work and find out. It's easy to be cynical and to destroy language and meanings. You're diminishing the Apartheid's crimes by calling Israeli apartheid. You are diminishing the Nazi crimes when you compare Israelis to Nazis.
Come on. Prove to yourself that you are not as lazy as you know you are.
Of course. What's wrong with that? Apart from the conflict with Palestinians, this is something most people would support if it had to do with some tribe in the Amazon, or Tibet, or a Native American reservation.
"Israel is probably more diverse than Toronto. There are immigrants from over 100 nations in Israel."
Immigration to Israel is selective- Jews preferred. That's not what is considered diversity in the rest of of the world.
"All successfully (by and large) absorbed."
Especially if they're Jewish. Especially unsuccessfully, if they are Arabs who are not Jews.
"People who are faced with so much multi culturalism by definition have a friendly outlook towards the unfamiliar."
That's true. Whenever I've dealt with Isrealis, I've found them gregarious and fun. But Israeli ethnic policy is not one of diversity within the set of humanity. It only promotes diversity within the set of Jews. That's Jewish diversity, not a wider human diversity.
"I think it is you who lives in a mental batustan, divorced from reality."
I've lived in a lot of countries, and hope to always get around all I can, physically and intellectually.
"Don't be intellectually lazy. Research."
OK... I'm open to your suggestions about what I should focus on.
"You're diminishing the Apartheid's crimes by calling Israeli apartheid."
Apartheid is an apt term, that is properly applied to Israeli policy. Like any dictionary will tell you, apartheid (small "a") is any system or practice that separates people according to race, caste, etc.
"You are diminishing the Nazi crimes when you compare Israelis to Nazis."
The verdict is in on Nazi Germany, and I'm not diminishing it to ackowledge the causative effect that the scars of the Shoah have in flawed zionist morality. It is deeply ironic that a people so horrifically wronged through a history of ethnic segregation and persecution would visit the same crimes upon another people. That the magnitude of nazi crimes exceeded those of zionist doesn't excuse lesser immitations- besides, apartheid zionism isn't done yet. Nazi Germany is finished.
You are diminishing human potential for criminality when you assume Israeli policy can't sink to it. It is profoundly ironic that Palestinians are being persecuted by Jews, but the most basic research into human psychology shows that it's a common degenerative pattern for abused people to abuse others. The cycle will end when the victims on every side of this wrongful ethnic warfare stop perpetuating the violence. As a state enjoying a more responsive political structure than the beseiged and occupied Palestinians, Israel has much more opportunity for reform and de-escalation than Palestinians. I still don't mean to excuse Palestinians from stopping their own counter-productive violence. I believe that Palestinians could overcome their oppression through unilateral non-violence- at great human cost, but not nearly so great as what they're already paying and will continue to pay in lost lives and futures.
If Israel really wants to enjoy the benefits of diversity (such as coexistence) she will have to do what Ronald Reagan demanded of the Soviet Union: Tear Down That Wall. To become a diverse nation, Israel must end her apartheid ethno-exceptionalist policy; Stop behaving much like a nazi state towards the Palestinians. It's getting harder and harder to behave like nazis as the world wakes up and connects- Racist or belligerently ethnocentric states can't commit atrocities against other ethnicities in such deep shadows any more. After 60 years, it's about time Israelis started thinking seriously about settling down among their non-Jewish cousins in the Mideast- not apart from them. Fortress-states are so passé.
This basic research into solutions must always come around to addressing the circular logic of oppressors: "If we ease up on them, they'll have their revenge on us". My advice is that while Israel still enjoys the protection of powerful allies, it is time now for gregarious, diversity-loving Jewish Mideasterners to start working very hard to earn the respect of their neighbors. Violence doesn't work for that.
Understanding, compassion, and the building of relationships one-by-one does. Jews in the Mideast must overcome any inner insecurity that they cannot earn the respect of their non-Jewish neighbors through means other than force. All bullies have psychological insecurities, and Israel is the poster-child of a strong nation with critical insecurities.
Immigration to Israel is selective- Jews preferred. That's not what is considered diversity in the rest of of the world.
"All successfully (by and large) absorbed."
Especially if they're Jewish. Especially unsuccessfully, if they are Arabs who are not Jews.
"People who are faced with so much multi culturalism by definition have a friendly outlook towards the unfamiliar."
That's true. Whenever I've dealt with Isrealis, I've found them gregarious and fun. But Israeli ethnic policy is not one of diversity within the set of humanity. It only promotes diversity within the set of Jews. That's Jewish diversity, not a wider human diversity.
"I think it is you who lives in a mental batustan, divorced from reality."
I've lived in a lot of countries, and hope to always get around all I can, physically and intellectually.
"Don't be intellectually lazy. Research."
OK... I'm open to your suggestions about what I should focus on.
"You're diminishing the Apartheid's crimes by calling Israeli apartheid."
Apartheid is an apt term, that is properly applied to Israeli policy. Like any dictionary will tell you, apartheid (small "a") is any system or practice that separates people according to race, caste, etc.
"You are diminishing the Nazi crimes when you compare Israelis to Nazis."
The verdict is in on Nazi Germany, and I'm not diminishing it to ackowledge the causative effect that the scars of the Shoah have in flawed zionist morality. It is deeply ironic that a people so horrifically wronged through a history of ethnic segregation and persecution would visit the same crimes upon another people. That the magnitude of nazi crimes exceeded those of zionist doesn't excuse lesser immitations- besides, apartheid zionism isn't done yet. Nazi Germany is finished.
You are diminishing human potential for criminality when you assume Israeli policy can't sink to it. It is profoundly ironic that Palestinians are being persecuted by Jews, but the most basic research into human psychology shows that it's a common degenerative pattern for abused people to abuse others. The cycle will end when the victims on every side of this wrongful ethnic warfare stop perpetuating the violence. As a state enjoying a more responsive political structure than the beseiged and occupied Palestinians, Israel has much more opportunity for reform and de-escalation than Palestinians. I still don't mean to excuse Palestinians from stopping their own counter-productive violence. I believe that Palestinians could overcome their oppression through unilateral non-violence- at great human cost, but not nearly so great as what they're already paying and will continue to pay in lost lives and futures.
If Israel really wants to enjoy the benefits of diversity (such as coexistence) she will have to do what Ronald Reagan demanded of the Soviet Union: Tear Down That Wall. To become a diverse nation, Israel must end her apartheid ethno-exceptionalist policy; Stop behaving much like a nazi state towards the Palestinians. It's getting harder and harder to behave like nazis as the world wakes up and connects- Racist or belligerently ethnocentric states can't commit atrocities against other ethnicities in such deep shadows any more. After 60 years, it's about time Israelis started thinking seriously about settling down among their non-Jewish cousins in the Mideast- not apart from them. Fortress-states are so passé.
This basic research into solutions must always come around to addressing the circular logic of oppressors: "If we ease up on them, they'll have their revenge on us". My advice is that while Israel still enjoys the protection of powerful allies, it is time now for gregarious, diversity-loving Jewish Mideasterners to start working very hard to earn the respect of their neighbors. Violence doesn't work for that.
Understanding, compassion, and the building of relationships one-by-one does. Jews in the Mideast must overcome any inner insecurity that they cannot earn the respect of their non-Jewish neighbors through means other than force. All bullies have psychological insecurities, and Israel is the poster-child of a strong nation with critical insecurities.
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You said ethnically. There are diverse ethnicities within Judaism.
Israel is about the size of New Jersey, so you can hardly compare it with dominating an entire continent.
Israel is about the size of New Jersey, so you can hardly compare it with dominating an entire continent.
"There are diverse ethnicities within Judaism."
Agreed. Creed doesn't perfectly fit modern zionism's chosen ones either, so we do the best we can.
"Israel is about the size of New Jersey, so you can hardly compare it with dominating an entire continent."
We know that if zionists were wreaking the same policies in New Jersey as Israel, there would be similar ethnic strife there, in response to any similar ethnic set, diverse in itself, but still displacing and oppressing others for the purpose of an ethnic homeland for Jews. That's a jumble of words that is easier to just summarize as ethnic separatism, or non-diversity.
Agreed. Creed doesn't perfectly fit modern zionism's chosen ones either, so we do the best we can.
"Israel is about the size of New Jersey, so you can hardly compare it with dominating an entire continent."
We know that if zionists were wreaking the same policies in New Jersey as Israel, there would be similar ethnic strife there, in response to any similar ethnic set, diverse in itself, but still displacing and oppressing others for the purpose of an ethnic homeland for Jews. That's a jumble of words that is easier to just summarize as ethnic separatism, or non-diversity.
The purpose of Israel is as a homeland for Jews, with the political power resting with Jews, it's unrealistic to think that Israel would exist in any other way.
Exactly. And this isn't something to be ashamed of or try to hide. That is what nation states are. Stop acting like it's a shocking new concept, hype.
Re: your long post, I'll respond to it later.
Yes, insulting to cockroaches even, but Israel does have an alternative to High Kill Ration Retaliation. Namely an effective defense such as I have suggested:
*Plan I suggested long ago:
http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1124159&postcount=115
Plan is not perfect, but does seem to have a chance to at least reduce the number of Israelis killed. Why not try to save ALL Israelis from the terrorist?
Basically plan is to shoot the rockets down with even 40 year old CIWS, immediate counter batter artillery fire that "shreds any living thing" at the launch site as part of integrated radar system (much like the old cold war DEW line that the US stretched across Canada), and keep the bastards out of Israel with mine field and killer dogs in an 60+20 meter wide 1967 border strip. No new technology required. - Much easier and cheaper now that transistors and fast cheap computers exist than it was in WWII.
yeah I do. I never did say that I hate Jews.
you dont have to.
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