News From Gaza

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Sam: "Truly, I don't know what I would do in a situation like that."

I expect I'd probably get killed defending my family.

John99: "we need to be on the same page to stop this stuff from happening, but THATS NOT HAPPENING."

When enough awareness of this is raised, it will be stopped.
 
John99: "we need to be on the same page to stop this stuff from happening, but THATS NOT HAPPENING."

When enough awareness of this is raised, it will be stopped.[/QUOTE]

Too many people with no voice, too many people willing to turn a blind eye, too many people willing to point their fingers. No, it will never stop, at the very least we should admit this.
 
John99: "No, it will never stop, at the very least we should admit this."

Like hell, we should. Pointlessness is pointless. There's meaning in our existence.
 
How will you stop poor people from being abused by dictators? From being robbed of everything they have including their dignity. Just tell these people to stop and forget about it? If we dont see it it is not happenning? but it is happening and unfortunately it takes armed conflict to end it or what is the answer? Like i said, too many people on the wrong page, too many agendas, too many lies.
 
John99: "How will you stop poor people from being abused by dictators?"

Expose oppressors, expose their political base, and watch it fall.

"From being robbed of everything they have including their dignity. Just tell these people to stop and forget about it?"

People get sick of war, and want to get back to living.

"If we dont see it it is not happenning?"

It's happening, and it's got to stop.

"too many people on the wrong page, too many agendas, too many lies."

We're going work it out. Israel's extremes are changing the geopolitical equation, and it will inevitably undermine their oppressive power.
 
Thank God there are people like Gideon Levy who can bring the injustice to light. At least its not all completely lost and unacknowledged. One wonders how many stories like that never see daylight.

What he does cleans his conscience from the guilt done by his compatriots, But never acquits the perpetrators or the bystanders. Keeping a closed eye on this is a humanitarian crime. I know a comparison wth the nazis will make some people here uneasy, but these acts can easily be compared to those crimes, or to those committed by the serbs in bosnia. It is a shame of humanity; I don't think it will ever be purged. I do even feel somehow guilty for it.
 
Backing up to our discussion of how to stop this barbarity in the near term, I think Rafi Eitan may be on to something. At this deplorable state of affairs, Arab forces have a valid reason to enter Gaza now. It's a weighty move, and presents its own dangers, but I think it's become imperative for there to be an international, but not US-branded response. A responsible US President should be on the phone right now with Mubarak, giving some very explicit advice and instructions. Gaza needs relief and security, and Israel needs to consider more than the problem with improvised Palestinian rockets. The simplest (and I don't mean simple) and most effective international response right now may be Egyptian troops in Gaza with UN approval and conditions.
 
Backing up to our discussion of how to stop this barbarity in the near term, I think Rafi Eitan may be on to something. At this deplorable state of affairs, Arab forces have a valid reason to enter Gaza now. It's a weighty move, and presents its own dangers, but I think it's become imperative for there to be an international, but not US-branded response. A responsible US President should be on the phone right now with Mubarak, giving some very explicit advice and instructions. Gaza needs relief and security, and Israel needs to consider more than the problem with improvised Palestinian rockets. The simplest (and I don't mean simple) and most effective international response right now may be Egyptian troops in Gaza with UN approval and conditions.

Egypt has already opened its borders again to help Gazans

What else do you think Arab countries could do that would not be construed or depicted as threatening?
 
Sam: "What else do you think Arab countries could do that would not be construed or depicted as threatening?"

Show some moral courage. Organize massive relief efforts. Interpose hundreds of unarmed Arab relief workers (courage part again) into the line of fire.

On a related note, about non-threatening tactics: If only enough Palestinians had understood and implemented non-violence over recent years, they would already have their country back.
 
spidergoat: "[Arab countries] could allow immigration."

Consider the origins of the Lebanese civil war, and the many other troubling implications of the Palestinian diaspora, and then think about that some more. Consider also whether you would yield to ethnic cleansing, and expect your countrymen to do the same if it were happening to you.
 
They could allow immigration.
I bet Israel would pay for buses to help Palestinians leave Palestine.

One cannot be sure what Israel's long range solution (dare I say the "final solution"?) for the "Palestinian Problem" is; but one can speculate what is most consistent with the Israeli actions. (And those actions have been very consistent for years for all non-Israelis*) I.e. Israel's "security fence" is pushing up to 20Km from the 1967 lines where there is proven water resources of the "mountain aquifer." The high kill ratio. The at times impossible sanitation conditions (raw sewerage flowing in the streets when Israel turns off the electricity). Food shortages. Lack of drugs in hospitals. etc. -- In general Israel is making life in Palestine extremely unpleasant for all - collective punishment - for the wrongdoings of a few who kill less than auto accidents in Israel do!

-------------------
*No only applied to the Palestinians but to all others who happened to be living in the land Israel now occupies when Israel was created for the European Jews. (Many Jews did not want to stay in Europe as "tolerated guests" and memory of the holocaust was too strong. Also their presence was a constant reminder of the well deserved shame many non-Jews had for what had happen to so many.)

If anything Israel's policy towards the Bedouins has been even harsher. They have been rounded up and placed in newly made cities without even the most basic sanitation services - worse than the concentration camps - there is no work for most.
Bedouins are a nomadic people. - They only know that way of life, so they sneak out of these confinement camps / cities at night to rebuild their temporary shacks, but the Israeli bulldoze soon come and destroy them again. All the Bedouins can do is throwing rocks. - They have no guns and no sympatric wealthy Arab nations to supply them with any guns or bombs. Israel should be able to totally destroy the Bedouins and their 10,000 year old claims to much of the Sinai in this decade.
 
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today an Israeli soldier killed a Palestinian baby girl

girl-gaza-20061012.jpg


http://www.boston.com/news/world/mi...ids_kill_about_60_palestinians_in_gaza_strip/

and this has happened before :http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/697464.html

and IDF get away with it...
Israeli like to kill young children.

and this is happening everyday: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3238626,00.html

everyday Israelis are killing Palestinian girls and boys
 

I missed this! :eek:

IDF officer cleared in death of Gaza girl to receive compensation from state
By Amos Harel, Haaretz correspondent

A Givati Brigade officer will receive NIS 80,000 in compensation from the state after he was cleared of all charges in relating to the death of 13-year-old Palestinian girl, Iman Al Hamas, in the much-publicized "confirmed kill" affair.

They have GOT to be kidding.
Jerusalem -- An Israeli army officer who repeatedly shot a 13-year-old Palestinian girl in Gaza dismissed a warning from another soldier that she was a child by saying he would have killed her even if she was three years old.

The officer, identified by the army only as Captain R, was charged this week with illegal use of his weapon, conduct unbecoming an officer and other relatively minor infractions after emptying all 10 bullets from his gun's magazine into Iman al-Hams when she walked into a "security area" on the edge of Rafah refugee camp last month.

A tape recording of radio exchanges between soldiers involved in the incident, played on Israeli television, contradicts the army's account of the events and appears to show that the captain shot the girl in cold blood.

The official account claimed that Iman was shot as she walked towards an army post with her schoolbag because soldiers feared she was carrying a bomb.

But the tape recording of the radio conversation between soldiers at the scene reveals that, from the beginning, she was identified as a child and at no point was a bomb spoken about nor was she described as a threat. Iman was also at least 100 yards from any soldier.

Instead, the tape shows that the soldiers swiftly identified her as a "girl of about 10" who was "scared to death".

The tape also reveals that the soldiers said Iman was headed eastwards, away from the army post and back into the refugee camp, when she was shot.

At that point, Captain R took the unusual decision to leave the post in pursuit of the girl. He shot her dead and then "confirmed the kill" by emptying his magazine into her body.

The tape recording is of a three-way conversation between the army watchtower, the army post's operations room and the captain, who was a company commander.

The soldier in the watchtower radioed his colleagues after he saw Iman: "It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward."

Operations room: "Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?"

Watchtower: "A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death."

A few minutes later, Iman is shot in the leg from one of the army posts.

The watchtower: "I think that one of the positions took her out."

The company commander then moves in as Iman lies wounded and helpless.

Captain R: "I and another soldier ... are going in a little nearer, forward, to confirm the kill ... Receive a situation report. We fired and killed her ... I also confirmed the kill. Over."

Witnesses described how the captain shot Iman twice in the head, walked away, turned back and fired a stream of bullets into her body. Doctors at Rafah's hospital said she had been shot at least 17 times.

On the tape, the company commander then "clarifies" why he killed Iman: "This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

The army's original account of the killing said that the soldiers only identified Iman as a child after she was first shot. But the tape shows that they were aware just how young the small, slight girl was before any shots were fired.

This guy gets COMPENSATION?????:mad:


This guy?
http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node/1461

Watchtower:
'It's a little girl. She's running defensively eastward'
Operations room:
'Are we talking about a girl under the age of 10?'
Watchtower:
'A girl of about 10, she's behind the embankment, scared to death'
Captain R (after killing the girl):
'Anything moving in the zone, even a three-year-old, needs to be killed'

Wtf is wrong with these people?
 
Could you explain how a 10 year old hiding in an embankment running away from the IDF in her own "country" is a human shield?

And how a rocket attack compares to being shot twice in the head at close range followed by 15 other shots in the body?

And how giving 80,000 NIS compensation for a "confirmed kill" shows anything but encouragement for the above?

I mean, you're kidding, right?
 
I was speaking of the recent incident in Gaza, not occasions in the past at border crossings.

Twas not a border crossing, it was an apparently 10 year old girl going to school.

And the recent "incident" in Gaza was a full scale military incursion by Israeli planes, tanks, helicopters and bombardment of a tightly packed civilian population under occupation.

ffs, 63 of the 90 civilians died in their homes. Where the hell are they supposed to go?
Since last Wednesday more than 90 Palestinians, including 19 children, one a two-day-old baby, have been killed by the Israel Defence Forces; 63 civilians died in their homes on Saturday as a result of bombing attacks by the Israeli air force.
 
Twas not a border crossing, it was an apparently 10 year old girl going to school.

And the recent "incident" in Gaza was a full scale military incursion by Israeli planes, tanks, helicopters and bombardment of a tightly packed civilian population under occupation.

ffs, 63 of the 90 civilians died in their homes. Where the hell are they supposed to go?

All military actions are rather indescriminate. These aren't cops. Perhaps the Palestinians should rethink their support of Hamas in light of the fact that Hamas brings incidental retaliation upon the civilians.
 
All military actions are rather indescriminate. These aren't cops. Perhaps the Palestinians should rethink their support of Hamas in light of the fact that Hamas brings incidental retaliation upon the civilians.

It was so much better before Hamas.
 
"That makes sense."

Not in every sense. That terrified little girl was apparently wounded while taking cover, and then murdered at close range. Until there are waves of exploding little girls, those soldiers should have taken a chance on her. Indiscriminate violence may make a certain cold sense in terms of risk to the individual IDF soldiers, but in a larger sense indiscriminate violence makes no sense, because it erodes the legitimacy of present Israeli society; Firebombing Gaza might seem to make sense for the safety of IDF soldiers, but it would not be safer for the future of Israel.
 
There were occasionally Palestinian politicians that favored peace. I think most of them were assassinated.
 
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