Actually no she won't. The truth is, you have no clue. And while you may act light-heartedly - this is not a joke. But, hey, go stick your head in the stand - pull the lever for Kevinator or Mad Monk, whatever you want to do.
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New, Improved Obamacare Program Released On 35 Floppy Disks
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
What are you crapping on about? One more time: Switzerland has NO minimum wage written into law. Collective bargaining agreements (CBAs) are fine if you're part of a union. If you're not then you negotiate your wage with your employer. It's whatever your employer offers you and you agree to.
Even if you have a union, if you are relatively low skilled you'll be living just like the low skilled in the USA.
Calls for a minimum wage mount
"This initiative is aimed at ensuring that everybody has a decent salary in Switzerland. Around ten per cent of full-time workers currently earn under SFr4,000, which doesn't even cover their basic living expenses, and often means they need welfare as well" said Daniel Lampart, chief economist at the federation.
Combo Meal at McDonalds or Similar: Switzerland = 13.00 Fr. U.S.A. = 5.38 Fr.
Combo Meal at McDonalds or Similar: Switzerland = 13.00 Fr. U.S.A. = 5.38 Fr.
I know you want there to be some magic man in the Sky/The State to snap It's fingers and give everyone a wonderful life. It simply doesn't work that way. I walked around the mall with someone earlier this year as they went from store to store to store and then drove to a few different stores - trying to save a few dollars on a god damn hard-drive. I thought WTF?! Just buy a f*cking hard-drive at the first store! Jesus, you saved $5 and wasted half my Saturday?!? Which reminds me, you still haven't responded to my Ethical thread about the Coffee Shop" Owner, Worker and Customer. Is it "FAIR" that the Customer is "Free" to drive all around trying to get the best deal on a cup of coffee? That doesn't seem very fair to the owner who just sunk their life savings into a Coffee Shop. And how about the Worker? It's "FAIR" they are "Free" to quit a take a higher paying job - after the owner spent all this time training them? This is how you people sound - totally Orwellian.
Losing Civil Liberties doesn't make the people more prosperous - it makes people LESS prosperous.
We are not going to get affordable high quality healthcare becoming LESS prosperous. It's really that simple.
We do NOT need to lose our civil liberties - we need to regain them.
AND if you want people to be respected and given a decent 'livable wage' with good affordable healthcare then they need to BE FREE. They need Law, Sound Money, Private Property Rights and a FREE-MARKET so they can compete to supply goods and services to other people. They need to be raised as children to think logically, not spanked and the basic ideas of how to start a small business taught to them - and then given the opportunity to do so. They need supported - not shoveled into day supervision factories, not doped up on anti-depressants. Each Owner pulls multiple Workers out of the market-place, themselves and the one's they hire. This reduces laborers and makes labor-hours more valuable as it become more scarce. If you want MORE jobs on offer - FREE the Market!
But, don't worry, that's not going to happen in the good Ole' Land of the "FREE" - USSA..... nope. We're going to go the other way. Where The State regulates our money, reduces our civil liberties, spies on us, regulates our ability to freely voluntarily interact and makes our life much less prosperous, but you'll get your ObamaCare. You take a real good look at Public Housing - that's ObamaCare in 15-25 years. It's not 'maybe' - it's IT IS GOING TO BE LIKE THAT. And this isn't even counting the massive Public Healthcare Unions and Quota Schemes that will develop - you know, the Public Workers need a "FAIR" 13th month pay; and your children will be the one's paying them it.
Michael
You know, flailing on the floor, drumming your heels and yelling "NO, NO, NO!" isn't getting you anywhere, try holding your breath until you turn blue(at least we wouldn't have to hear the utter BS that comes out of your mouth for a while). You've already shown that the sources you rely on are totally unreliable. And so is the "logic" you apply to those false facts. You are simply wrong. And you live inside a bubble of babble, listening only to those who live inside that same bubble. It's been explained to you, it isn't going to change no matter what kind of fit you throw. Move on.
The law requires the government to set and maintain a minimum wage, the level is not written into that law but is decided by the legislature on a continuing basis as part of the budget. It floats according to economic conditions. It is still the highest in the EU. Despite being a Monarchy, they are a much more democratic country than the US, being largely a direct democracy, most contentious issues are put to a referendum. A referendum for a 12/1 pay ratio was defeated in November, today they are considering a 40/1 vote. Executive pay has bumped up to the 300/1 range lately, it upsets the Swedish sense of fairness. People are free to pay themselves whatever they like, as long as their employees are brought along too.
Grumpy
You know, flailing on the floor, drumming your heels and yelling "NO, NO, NO!" isn't getting you anywhere, try holding your breath until you turn blue(at least we wouldn't have to hear the utter BS that comes out of your mouth for a while). You've already shown that the sources you rely on are totally unreliable. And so is the "logic" you apply to those false facts. You are simply wrong. And you live inside a bubble of babble, listening only to those who live inside that same bubble. It's been explained to you, it isn't going to change no matter what kind of fit you throw. Move on.
The law requires the government to set and maintain a minimum wage, the level is not written into that law but is decided by the legislature on a continuing basis as part of the budget. It floats according to economic conditions. It is still the highest in the EU. Despite being a Monarchy, they are a much more democratic country than the US, being largely a direct democracy, most contentious issues are put to a referendum. A referendum for a 12/1 pay ratio was defeated in November, today they are considering a 40/1 vote. Executive pay has bumped up to the 300/1 range lately, it upsets the Swedish sense of fairness. People are free to pay themselves whatever they like, as long as their employees are brought along too.
Grumpy
And if you're not part of a union - then what is your minimum wage in Switzerland? Even the working poor in Switzerland that ARE part of a Union, still require the use of food-stamps to get by - just like in the USA.
Just wait to the working-poor are smashed in the face with fines for not being able to afford ObamaCare - no insurance AND FORCED TO PAY A FINE!!! What happens to all those working-poor who refuse to pay their fine? Oh, maybe the State will send some goons over to their house and take their property, remove their children for 'neglect'. The Good Ole' Demagogue Party - helping to destroy your family, one fine at at time.
Only the State would have the legal obligation to forcefully remove a child from a family that's too poor to pay for State mandated State regulated State certified Private insurance but refused to quit their jobs and get on the Welfare. I'm really hoping ObamaCare sticks - you know, so that when people are going to their local Public Hospital staffed with Public Unioned functionally illiterate State-certified Public School Graduates, they remember who's responsible.
A fair amount over 15k USD per year, same as everyone else's in the covered jobs - which is most of them. It has nothing to do with union membership. It's a national minimum wage.micheal said:
Sound terrible. It didn't happen in Massuchessetts, Germany, Switzerland, or anywhere else the basic scheme has been rolled out, but there's always a first time.michael said:
In that case, we'll have a chance to get rid of the inefficient and costly private insurance domination, and get some kind of a single payer plan finally.
New, Improved Obamacare Program Released On 35 Floppy Disks
WASHINGTON—Responding to widespread criticism regarding its health care website, the federal government today unveiled its new, improved Obamacare program, which allows Americans to purchase health insurance after installing a software bundle contained on 35 floppy disks. “I have heard the complaints about the existing website, and I can assure you that with this revised system, finding the right health care option for you and your family is as easy as loading 35 floppy disks sequentially into your disk drive and following the onscreen prompts,” President Obama told reporters this morning, explaining that the nearly three dozen 3.5-inch diskettes contain all the data needed for individuals to enroll in the Health Insurance Marketplace, while noting that the updated Obamacare software is mouse-compatible and requires a 386 Pentium processor with at least 8 MB of system RAM to function properly. “Just fire up MS-DOS, enter ‘A:\>dir *.exe’ into the command line, and then follow the instructions to install the Obamacare batch files—it should only take four or five hours at the most. You can press F1 for help if you run into any problems. And be sure your monitor’s screen resolution is at 320 x 200 or it might not display properly.” Obama added that the federal government hopes to have a six–CD-ROM version of the program available by 2016.
WHAT is the big problem????
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMCO_Remote_Installer
Didn't you know about the new Executive Order where we are all going to have the ACA DL'ed to our brains???
I cut your Onion and Make U Cry :bawl:
Do you have a citation that all people working in Switzerland are guaranteed a minimum of $15K USD per year? Even the Lithuanian on a legal work visa who goes to work for a start-up as the sole employee is by law going to get $15,000 USD a year? Switzerland has a cost of living around 40% more than the USSA. $13,383 Swiss Francs is NOT a livable wage. More like $48,000 plus welfare and you might be able to get by. Not on $13,500 SwF.
You do know that healthcare costs more in Massuchessetts than in ANY of the other States. What is it with you? You want to totally shaft the poor? Is that what you want? Totally screw the working-poor over on their healthcare?
PBS is far from 'Conservative': Facing rising health costs, Massachusetts seeks cost-cutting that improves care
Oh, and you want to know what the 'solution' is in Massuchessetts?
AND I QUOTE ARON BOROS: We will use that muscle to force hospitals, other providers and plans to control costs and ultimately pass those savings to consumers.
Which is to say: We [beuracrats] will use that muscle [the State] to force [the State Police with very real guns and very real rape-cage quasi-fascist prisons] hospitals, other providers and plans to control costs [State price controls] and ultimately pass those savings to consumers [tax-cattle].
ONE MORE TIME: You DO understand we are LOSING our civil liberties? You DO understand nations do NOT become prosperous by GIVING UP their freedoms? They become prosperous by PROTECTING their freedoms. Healthcare costs are sky-rocketing in Massachusetts - the State's solution is FORCE. This is what the State IS. The State solution is the only thing is CAN do - price controls! Because it only has a gun. You know what happens when the State imposes price controls? The amount and quality of that good or service degrades. Because of people like you, now we have to be spied on by the NSA. Hope you like your shit-care. Hope it was worth your grandchildren's civil liberty and personal privacy.
There is a solution to healthcare - it's called FREE-MARKETS and real COMPETITION. This nation was built on sound money, free-markets, law and protection of private property. We've deviated from that, majorly when the 16 Amendment was introduced forcing workers to pay the State a tax when they work. AND when the State made our money FIAT with the Central Bank. Want to know WHY people were such dumb-arses 1913? Because most didn't pay ... in the beginning. Just like you, they wanted free free free. More than happy to 'redistribute' the rich man's wealth to themselves. And what did they give their grandkids? A collar. A branding. Turned them into Tax Cattle. A general welfare tax was 40 years off into the future - but it came. Now the Rich USE the State to steal from you and give to them. Oh, you'll get your 'Free' healthcare, and in 15-25 years it will probably kill you.
When this conclusion finally dawns on you - try and recall these conversations.
Why not just do away with this whole 'democracy' thing and live in a police state? Hmmmm? How's that sound? People like me will just make the decisions and people like you will live with them. Sound good to you? Freedom is obviously a little too much for you to handle. Fine. You're losing it a little each day.
I'm pretty sure you actually want the poor to live in filth? Is that your goal? Detroitify the nation?
There's not going to be a 'single payer system' in the USSA. What we're going to have is fascist exploitation where the wealthy oligarchy and those with good connections get excellent healthcare, above excellent - I'm talking state-of-the-art healthcare. Given the advances in medicine, I'm pretty sure something approaching eternal youth. Then there's what the poor you're creating by locking them out of the markets are going to get - thanks to you and your love of the State (as well as those without the right connections - the personal relationships). There's going to be a lot of dead - there actually is already. So, to be correct, I should say - more death. But don't worry. You'll normalize. That's what you do.
I've watched as Japan went from being more free (IMO) relative to the USA (you can still buy beer out of public vending machines in the country side). In terms of markets, internally, Japan was (and somewhat still is) free. The miles of red-tape to start a business in the USSA, the insurance, the sue happy sociopaths, that's not much of a problem in Japan. But, in the 1980s - they turned to socialism in a big way. The Chinese used to say, if you want to learn about Communism - move to Japan. Their politicians talked up about how wonderful a 'socialist paradise' Japan was going to be. AND people believed that bullshit - just like you are now. But it didn't turn out that way for Japan now did it? They have massive debts. Upwards towards 250% GDP. Japanese are dying under a poisonous fog of 'Public Service'. People are pretty much given up all hope of starting a family - and, unlike in the USSA - family in Japan actually IS a big deal. And Japan IS eroding their social structure too. They're even starting to sue one anther. Hell, I remember when you couldn't buy a used car in Japan. Now you can buy used underwear in thrift shops. No shit. Also, Japan is finally starting to remind me a little of Michigan circa 1980s. Back when people were just beginning to shamelessly rout the system. Of course now, hell, people think you're a sucker if you're NOT screwing the system one way or anther, more than 50% of Americans are getting one hand out or another. Not in Japan - people still get pissed off there. But slowly they are dying. Slowly their economy implodes.
But, guess, what - we are not Japan. We're not going to be 'pulling together' and when the going gets tough - shit will hit the fan in the USSA.
We're not German.
We're not Japanese.
Not even close to.
We could have affordable top-quality healthcare. We could have kept out personal privacy. We could have stuck with sound money and law. But that would mean dealing with customers in a free-market. And we all know what stingy little arse-holes customers are. So, we get fascism instead. Lucky us.
Do enjoy your ObamaCare.
Michael
I'm especially going to enjoy the apoplexy we will see from those who think like you when it actually works. Sweden has had a system much like the ACA for decades. The results(compared to the free market mess we have now)speak for themselves. Free market gave us pre-existing conditions, cancellation if you use it, lifetime and yearly caps and nearly a third of the population with inadequate or no coverage at all and health insurance profits that would make a Robber Baron blush. For you, reality sucks.
Grumpy
I'm especially going to enjoy the apoplexy we will see from those who think like you when it actually works. Sweden has had a system much like the ACA for decades. The results(compared to the free market mess we have now)speak for themselves. Free market gave us pre-existing conditions, cancellation if you use it, lifetime and yearly caps and nearly a third of the population with inadequate or no coverage at all and health insurance profits that would make a Robber Baron blush. For you, reality sucks.
Grumpy
Of course not. There are all kinds of exceptions written into Switzerland's national minimum wage laws, just as there are for every other national minimum wage on the planet.michael said:
So? I said it was the national minimum wage, not some kind of luxury remuneration.michael said:
And the Swiss cost of living for the working poor is not 40% more than the US cost if you include housing, health care, and transportation as part of that cost - for low income people the Swiss have cheaper housing cooperatives, transport, and much cheaper health care.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and just call that bullshit simply because it's an assertion of physical fact from you, you are always wrong about your physical facts, and you don't seem to care - you never amend your claims or arguments to avoid conflicts with physical fact. I'm not even going to look it up. (I am cheating a bit, because I already have read and have sitting on my throne shelf an NYT article about why California's hospitalization and treatment costs are the highest in the country, but other than that I looked up nothing).michael said:
I mean, it's completely plausible - Mass is one of the wealthiest States, and a center of expensive, high tech medical care and research and so forth, and one would expect very high medical care expenditures there compared with States in poorer and less well equipped circumstances, but just by you posting it I know there's a problem with the claim. It's wrong, somehow. You get all your info from rightwing authoritarian propaganda websites, and you haven't learned yet that they are all full of shit.
Politifact: November 3rd, 2013
Romney said, "health insurance is more expensive in Massachusetts than anywhere else in the country." The numbers show he’s basically correct that Massachusetts does have higher premiums than almost every other state. On some measures, though, Alaska outranks Massachusetts.
Kaiser Health News (KHN) is a nonprofit news organization committed to in-depth coverage of health care policy and politics.
Mass. Residents Paying More, Getting Less From Health Insurance
A state report says Bay State premiums rose 9.7 percent between 2009 and 2011, while the value of that coverage shrank 5.1 percent. “What we’ve seen over the last couple of years is that premiums are growing faster than inflation and at the same time, the quality of the benefit is declining,” said Aron Boros, whose State agency, the Center for Health Information and Analysis, published the report. “So you’re not only paying more, you’re getting less.”
[actually Aron probably LOVES the cluster-f*ck this is turning out to be - it means MORE power, MORE resources, MORE people under his command. This is HOW people like Aron think, they think you're too f*cking stupid to know better and so he'll do the thinking for you.]
Forbes: ObamaCare Raises Health Insurance Premiums, Especially For The Young
The Affordable Care Act has dramatically increased the cost of buying a health insurance plan on the individual market in California, Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, Georgia, and North Carolina, states that account for more than half of America’s uninsured adults, according to a study by Sector & Sovereign, a sell-side firm that focuses on advising investors what sectors to put their money in. Worse, the firm argued in a note earlier this week, the increases in cost are most substantial for the young. According to S&S, the average deductible – the amount of money you spend out of pocket before your health insurance kicks in– for plans purchased by a 21-year old man in 2013 was $3,649, bought at an average monthly premium of $144. To purchase a plan with the same deductible now, a 21-year-old would have to pay $261, an 81% increase.
Isn't that nice? Your the Californian Medical Association is 'protecting' you from receiving primary care from a practicing nurse (even through the 18 States that allow PN find patients are happier with their care and outcomes and there's no significant difference other that cost). The AMA is 'protecting' you from competing in the healthcare markets (along with all the other markets the State 'protects' you from entering and competing in - in effect, keeping you poor). And now your grandparents are 'protecting' you by sticking you with their healthcare bills which you are now starting to pay for with much higher premiums. Oh, don't worry, they sold 30 year T-Bonds on you that subsidized their university and they regulated you out of their markets. Many are at the top of their Union-protected Public Service jobs and will probably rot in their office chairs before giving you one red-cent. Not to mention, your grandparents are on record as stating 'they worked for what they have - unlike you lazy f*ckers' and so they plan to 'spend it - as you can't take it with you'. Thus, you'll get nothing but their bills and public debts.
PBS: Massachusetts Works to Curb Rising Healthcare Costs
Healthcare is more expensive in Massachusetts than any other state in the country
So? What's the solution? Free-markets and competition? Return lost civil liberties to the people of MA? Nope. No no no, the State doesn't think like that. No, we're going to instead lose more civil liberties and bring in Price Controls. You know, because price controls have brought such wonders and bounty across all nations that have implemented them.
ARON BOROS: We will use that muscle to force hospitals, other providers and plans to control costs and ultimately pass those savings to consumers.
Translation: We [unelected Public 'Servants'/career-bureaucrats] will use that muscle [the State] to force [Yes, he used the word FORCE - he understands the role of the State in your lives and isn't ashamed to admit its] hospitals [groups of people dedicating their lives to saving yours - the one's you want to use State force against], other providers and plans to control costs [State price controls] and ultimately pass those savings to consumers [tax-cattle].
Notice what he did not say: We will use the free-markets to allow voluntarism and competition between hospitals, other providers and plans to reduce costs and raise quality through competition and ultimately pass those savings to consumers. NOPE! That State IS the use of Force. The People who work in It's Government only think in Force. So, you'll get LESS Civil Liberties. LESS personal privacy. MORE NSA (need to economize State-run markets) and MORE regulating you OUT of a job.
Land of the "Free" indeed. I have an idea, how about we do it this way, you waddle your fat lard arse down to the magic voting booth, you pull the magic voting lever one way or the other - we then decide what's good for you. How's that sound? I mean, given you're obviously too stupid to organize your life for yourself - we'll take care of that. We'll make sure we pass enough regulations that you won't have to do too much thinking as you 'participate' as a 'free Citizen' in this wonderful "Land of the Free". Land of the highly State Regulated Tax Cattle.
Here's some goodies for you:
Preventable Medical Mistakes Account for One-Sixth of All Annual Deaths in the United States.
Medical mistakes kill enough people to fill four jumbo jets EACH WEEK.
Oh, and I'm sure fascist USSA Federal Government that loves you so much, the one that broke the healthcare system - is now, with LESS competition is going to 'magically' add even more magic regulations to fix this mess. Jesus H Christ - and I thought the Theobots were bad enough. Even THEY aren't this idiotic!
One more time: GIVING UP even more of your Civil Liberties AND Personal Privacy IS NOT the path to Prosperity. If you want affordable high-quality healthcare OPEN up healthcare to the FREE-MARKET. Let "Free" Americans buy and sell healthcare goods and services freely. End the Privately owned Federal Reserve and our fiat-State-money monetary system that bails out the rich while distracting you with so-called 'free' healthcare that is anything but free or healthcare. End Income Tax. End 30 year T-Bills. Use Law to protect personal property, use courts to punish fraud through jury - instead of the State to force regulations (ones that ultimately game the system in favor of those with the political connections or special interest groups that buy off politicians). You don't NEED a Nanny State to redistribute 'wealth' for you - you can do this yourself by using sound money and free-markets. You CAN organize yourselves to act non-violently towards one another. It will take work, but with sound money, free markets, private property (your body), and law there'd more than enough and everyone can live well and have affordable healthcare, good private schooling, plenty of healthy food.
Or don't. And we won't. Instead we'll continue to lose more civil liberties and you can pretty much forget personal privacy.
Just put your faith in your betters, Trust the State, and don't forget: Big Brother Loves You.
Romney said, "health insurance is more expensive in Massachusetts than anywhere else in the country." The numbers show he’s basically correct that Massachusetts does have higher premiums than almost every other state. On some measures, though, Alaska outranks Massachusetts.
Kaiser Health News (KHN) is a nonprofit news organization committed to in-depth coverage of health care policy and politics.
Mass. Residents Paying More, Getting Less From Health Insurance
A state report says Bay State premiums rose 9.7 percent between 2009 and 2011, while the value of that coverage shrank 5.1 percent. “What we’ve seen over the last couple of years is that premiums are growing faster than inflation and at the same time, the quality of the benefit is declining,” said Aron Boros, whose State agency, the Center for Health Information and Analysis, published the report. “So you’re not only paying more, you’re getting less.”
[actually Aron probably LOVES the cluster-f*ck this is turning out to be - it means MORE power, MORE resources, MORE people under his command. This is HOW people like Aron think, they think you're too f*cking stupid to know better and so he'll do the thinking for you.]
Forbes: ObamaCare Raises Health Insurance Premiums, Especially For The Young
The Affordable Care Act has dramatically increased the cost of buying a health insurance plan on the individual market in California, Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, Georgia, and North Carolina, states that account for more than half of America’s uninsured adults, according to a study by Sector & Sovereign, a sell-side firm that focuses on advising investors what sectors to put their money in. Worse, the firm argued in a note earlier this week, the increases in cost are most substantial for the young. According to S&S, the average deductible – the amount of money you spend out of pocket before your health insurance kicks in– for plans purchased by a 21-year old man in 2013 was $3,649, bought at an average monthly premium of $144. To purchase a plan with the same deductible now, a 21-year-old would have to pay $261, an 81% increase.
Isn't that nice? Your the Californian Medical Association is 'protecting' you from receiving primary care from a practicing nurse (even through the 18 States that allow PN find patients are happier with their care and outcomes and there's no significant difference other that cost). The AMA is 'protecting' you from competing in the healthcare markets (along with all the other markets the State 'protects' you from entering and competing in - in effect, keeping you poor). And now your grandparents are 'protecting' you by sticking you with their healthcare bills which you are now starting to pay for with much higher premiums. Oh, don't worry, they sold 30 year T-Bonds on you that subsidized their university and they regulated you out of their markets. Many are at the top of their Union-protected Public Service jobs and will probably rot in their office chairs before giving you one red-cent. Not to mention, your grandparents are on record as stating 'they worked for what they have - unlike you lazy f*ckers' and so they plan to 'spend it - as you can't take it with you'. Thus, you'll get nothing but their bills and public debts.
PBS: Massachusetts Works to Curb Rising Healthcare Costs
Healthcare is more expensive in Massachusetts than any other state in the country
So? What's the solution? Free-markets and competition? Return lost civil liberties to the people of MA? Nope. No no no, the State doesn't think like that. No, we're going to instead lose more civil liberties and bring in Price Controls. You know, because price controls have brought such wonders and bounty across all nations that have implemented them.
ARON BOROS: We will use that muscle to force hospitals, other providers and plans to control costs and ultimately pass those savings to consumers.
Translation: We [unelected Public 'Servants'/career-bureaucrats] will use that muscle [the State] to force [Yes, he used the word FORCE - he understands the role of the State in your lives and isn't ashamed to admit its] hospitals [groups of people dedicating their lives to saving yours - the one's you want to use State force against], other providers and plans to control costs [State price controls] and ultimately pass those savings to consumers [tax-cattle].
Notice what he did not say: We will use the free-markets to allow voluntarism and competition between hospitals, other providers and plans to reduce costs and raise quality through competition and ultimately pass those savings to consumers. NOPE! That State IS the use of Force. The People who work in It's Government only think in Force. So, you'll get LESS Civil Liberties. LESS personal privacy. MORE NSA (need to economize State-run markets) and MORE regulating you OUT of a job.
Land of the "Free" indeed. I have an idea, how about we do it this way, you waddle your fat lard arse down to the magic voting booth, you pull the magic voting lever one way or the other - we then decide what's good for you. How's that sound? I mean, given you're obviously too stupid to organize your life for yourself - we'll take care of that. We'll make sure we pass enough regulations that you won't have to do too much thinking as you 'participate' as a 'free Citizen' in this wonderful "Land of the Free". Land of the highly State Regulated Tax Cattle.
Here's some goodies for you:
Preventable Medical Mistakes Account for One-Sixth of All Annual Deaths in the United States.
Medical mistakes kill enough people to fill four jumbo jets EACH WEEK.
Oh, and I'm sure fascist USSA Federal Government that loves you so much, the one that broke the healthcare system - is now, with LESS competition is going to 'magically' add even more magic regulations to fix this mess. Jesus H Christ - and I thought the Theobots were bad enough. Even THEY aren't this idiotic!
One more time: GIVING UP even more of your Civil Liberties AND Personal Privacy IS NOT the path to Prosperity. If you want affordable high-quality healthcare OPEN up healthcare to the FREE-MARKET. Let "Free" Americans buy and sell healthcare goods and services freely. End the Privately owned Federal Reserve and our fiat-State-money monetary system that bails out the rich while distracting you with so-called 'free' healthcare that is anything but free or healthcare. End Income Tax. End 30 year T-Bills. Use Law to protect personal property, use courts to punish fraud through jury - instead of the State to force regulations (ones that ultimately game the system in favor of those with the political connections or special interest groups that buy off politicians). You don't NEED a Nanny State to redistribute 'wealth' for you - you can do this yourself by using sound money and free-markets. You CAN organize yourselves to act non-violently towards one another. It will take work, but with sound money, free markets, private property (your body), and law there'd more than enough and everyone can live well and have affordable healthcare, good private schooling, plenty of healthy food.
Or don't. And we won't. Instead we'll continue to lose more civil liberties and you can pretty much forget personal privacy.
Just put your faith in your betters, Trust the State, and don't forget: Big Brother Loves You.
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Politifact: November 3rd, 2013
Romney said, "health insurance is more expensive in Massachusetts than anywhere else in the country." The numbers show he’s basically correct that Massachusetts does have higher premiums than almost every other state. On some measures, though, Alaska outranks Massachusetts.
Kaiser Health News (KHN) is a nonprofit news organization committed to in-depth coverage of health care policy and politics.
Mass. Residents Paying More, Getting Less From Health Insurance
A state report says Bay State premiums rose 9.7 percent between 2009 and 2011, while the value of that coverage shrank 5.1 percent. “What we’ve seen over the last couple of years is that premiums are growing faster than inflation and at the same time, the quality of the benefit is declining,” said Aron Boros, whose state agency, the Center for Health Information and Analysis, published the report. “So you’re not only paying more, you’re getting less.”
Forbes: ObamaCare Raises Health Insurance Premiums, Especially For The Young
The Affordable Care Act has dramatically increased the cost of buying a health insurance plan on the individual market in California, Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, Georgia, and North Carolina, states that account for more than half of America’s uninsured adults, according to a study by Sector & Sovereign, a sell-side firm that focuses on advising investors what sectors to put their money in. Worse, the firm argued in a note earlier this week, the increases in cost are most substantial for the young. According to S&S, the average deductible – the amount of money you spend out of pocket before your health insurance kicks in– for plans purchased by a 21-year old man in 2013 was $3,649, bought at an average monthly premium of $144. To purchase a plan with the same deductible now, a 21-year-old would have to pay $261, an 81% increase.
Isn't that nice? Your the Californian Medical Association is 'protecting' you from receiving primary care from a practicing nurse (even through the 18 States that allow PN find patients are happier with their care and outcomes and there's no significant difference other that cost). The AMA is 'protecting' you from competing in the healthcare markets (along with all the other markets the State 'protects' you from entering and competing in - in effect, keeping you poor). And now your grandparents are 'protecting' you by sticking you with their healthcare bills which you are now starting to pay for with much higher premiums. Oh, don't worry, they sold 30 year T-Bonds on you that subsidized their university and they regulated you out of their markets. Many are at the top of their Union-protected Public Service jobs and will probably rot in their office chairs before giving you one red-cent. Not to mention, your grandparents are on record as stating 'they worked for what they have - unlike you lazy f*ckers' and so they plan to 'spend it - as you can't take it with you'. Thus, you'll get nothing but their bills and public debts.
PBS: Massachusetts Works to Curb Rising Healthcare Costs
Healthcare is more expensive in Massachusetts than any other state in the country
So? What's the solution? Free-markets and competition? Return lost civil liberties to the people of MA? Nope. No no no, the State doesn't think like that. No, we're going to instead lose more civil liberties and bring in Price Controls. You know, because price controls have brought such wonders and bounty across all nations that have implemented them.
ARON BOROS: We will use that muscle to force hospitals, other providers and plans to control costs and ultimately pass those savings to consumers.
Translation: We [beuracrats] will use that muscle [the State] to force [Yes, he used the word FORCE - he understands the role of the State in your lives and isn't ashamed to admit its] hospitals [groups of people dedicating their lives to saving yours - the one's you want to use State force against], other providers and plans to control costs [State price controls] and ultimately pass those savings to consumers [tax-cattle].
Land of the "Free" indeed. I have an idea, how about we do it this way, you waddle your fat lard arse down to the magic voting booth, you pull the magic voting lever one way or the other - we then decide what's good for you. How's that sound? I mean, given you're obviously too stupid to organize your life for yourself - we'll take care of that. We'll make sure we pass enough regulations that you won't have to do too much thinking as you 'participate' as a 'free Citizen' in this wonderful "Land of the Free".
Here's some goodies for you:
Preventable Medical Mistakes Account for One-Sixth of All Annual Deaths in the United States.
Medical mistakes kill enough people to fill four jumbo jets EACH WEEK.
Oh, and I'm sure fascist USSA Federal Government that loves you so much, the one that broke the healthcare system - is now, with LESS competition is going to 'magically' add even more magic regulations to fix this mess. Jesus H Christ - and I thought the Theobots were bad enough. Even THEY aren't this idiotic!
One more time: GIVING UP even more of your Civil Liberties AND Personal Privacy IS NOT the path to Prosperity. If you want affordable high-quality healthcare OPEN up healthcare to the FREE-MARKET. Let "Free" Americans buy and sell healthcare goods and services freely. End the Privately owned Federal Reserve and our fiat-State-money monetary system that bails out the rich while distracting you with so-called 'free' healthcare that is anything but free or healthcare. End Income Tax. End 30 year T-Bills. Use Law to protect personal property, punishes fraud instead of regulations that game the system in favor of those with the political connections or special interest groups that buy off politicians. You don't NEED a Nanny State to redistribute 'wealth' - you can do this yourself by using sound money. You CAN organize yourselves to act non-violently towards one another.
But, this isn't going to happen. Instead we'll continue to lose more civil liberties and you can pretty much forget personal privacy. Just put your faith in your betters - we'll look after you.
That is more chaff Michael. The problem remains for you. You cannot show one example of a successful libertarian healthcare model. You have no evidence that individual and collective greed is self-regulating – that people will suddenly and magically stop acting like people if only we didn’t regulate ourselves. Additionally there are healthcare systems like Obamacare that are doing quite well. As has been pointed out to you on numerous occasions, the Swiss healthcare system is very similar to Obamacare and their healthcare expenses are less than half of what we pay in the US.
Three, the Obamacare is similar to the healthcare system in Massachusetts, but not identical. Obamcare contains cost containment provisions that are missing in Romneycare. And finally, healthcare costs have been rising at multiples of inflation for decades – nothing new there. But healthcare costs growth is slowing for the first time in many decades.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/20/health-care-spending-growth/3650243/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...8cc52a-47c1-11e3-b6f8-3782ff6cb769_story.html
Firstly, let's be clear on what we mean when we say "Libertarian" and what the alternative is "State regulation". Libertarian means using sound money, free-markets, property rights and using the law to protect property and prevent fraud. In our own history we'd need to rewind the clock many MANY decades to find anything even close in the USSA. So here's your example: How Government Solved the Health Care Crisis: Medical Insurance that Worked — Until Government "Fixed" It. State-Regulation means resorting to using State FORCE against innocent "Citizens". Here's an example: ARON BOROS: We will use that muscle to force hospitals, other providers and plans to control costs and ultimately pass those savings to consumers.
Secondly, we are not the Swiss. We're not going to be the Swiss. The Swiss also have public housing, they do NOT having the public housing SLUMS that liter what were once safe cities. The Swiss also have public schooling, they do NOT have graduating State-certified high schools Graduating classes where 47% of the kids are functionally illiterate. Swiss are a teeny tiny culturally coherent European country with thousands of years of society in the a small geographical location. They number less than a large US city.
Thirdly, what you propose is we become LESS prosperous as we lose MORE civil liberties and we lose MORE personal privacy. This is the ObamaCare solution - FORCE. LESS freedom - more State coercion. IMO your idea we should become LESS free in order to gain healthcare is demented.
Freedom is Slavery in Joe's world.
Well, I do hope you're around in 25 years to taste the fruits of your orchard.
joepistole
Dramatically since 2010.
"In private insurance, the average spending growth rate per person has slowed a lot over the last few years. In Medicare, there was no spending growth between 2010 and 2013 and, in Medicaid, per person costs actually decreased some.
All told, health care costs have been growing more slowly over the last three years than any other time period since 1965. More recently, yearly health cost growth slowed from an average rate of 3.9 percent between 2000 and 2007 to 1.3 percent between 2011 and 2013.
The big health policy parlor game for the past few years has been to ask: How much of this change is cyclical, owing to the recession, or structural, partially due to the health law's payment reforms?
The White House has long argued that the changes are structural, and it made that case again Wednesday in a briefing with reporters.
"The slowdown is indisputable," Council of Economics Advisers chairman Jason Furman said. "A very important part of that is structure, and a very important part of the structural story is the Affordable Care Act.""
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-is-amazing-news-for-our-health-cost-problem/
It's working, has been since 2010.
Grumpy
Dramatically since 2010.
"In private insurance, the average spending growth rate per person has slowed a lot over the last few years. In Medicare, there was no spending growth between 2010 and 2013 and, in Medicaid, per person costs actually decreased some.
All told, health care costs have been growing more slowly over the last three years than any other time period since 1965. More recently, yearly health cost growth slowed from an average rate of 3.9 percent between 2000 and 2007 to 1.3 percent between 2011 and 2013.
The big health policy parlor game for the past few years has been to ask: How much of this change is cyclical, owing to the recession, or structural, partially due to the health law's payment reforms?
The White House has long argued that the changes are structural, and it made that case again Wednesday in a briefing with reporters.
"The slowdown is indisputable," Council of Economics Advisers chairman Jason Furman said. "A very important part of that is structure, and a very important part of the structural story is the Affordable Care Act.""
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-is-amazing-news-for-our-health-cost-problem/
It's working, has been since 2010.
Grumpy
LOL
Health-Care Cost Slowdown
Let me guess, ObamaCare was already slowing down the pace of healthcare insurance - the year BEFORE it was implemented.
OR.... I'll go out on a limb here, is this reflective of our BROKEN ECONOMY? The one the Federal Reserve is pumping $100 billion each and every month into? The one where a generation of university graduates are stuck living at home. The one where the Federal Government regulates everyone OUT of and keeps them FROM competing in the markets leaving us with Walmart and other retail chains instead. How lucky for a "FREE" Tax Cattle circa 2014, they're FREE to work at Starbucks. Could they open their own cafe'? Well, thanks to Public Schooling and Public Debt and a shit load of Public Regulations (wouldn't want to take a chance on buying lemon-aid from a stand *GAAASP* it hasn't been anal probed by the FDA) - most won't bother to.
LET'S SEE: The cost of college is still rising, just not as fast as in previous years. The College Board is out with a report that says the average price for tuition and fees at public four-year schools rose 2.9% this year to $8,893 for in-state students. That’s the smallest increase since the 1970s.
Don't worry - for the young that you feed off of - not only have you ruined many of their opportunities in life by flipping houses and renting them to them instead of giving them a go at owning a home, giving your self cheap university by selling bonds you don't have to pay back, leaving them the bill, your entire generation bailed themselves out when the GFC hit, instead of doing the right thing and letting the criminal banks that own you fail - - and then you capped it off by trying to STICK THEM with YOUR healthcare costs. That YOU should have planned for.
Or at least you're going to try to.
See, I think, you're going to find things are going to work out the way you planned.
But, we'll see.
“According to the February 2013 CBO estimates, for example, potential growth of the labour supply has been irregularly slowing from 2.5% annual growth from 1974-1981 to only 0.8% from 2002-12 and is projected to slow further to only 0.6% over the next five years,”
- slowing technological innovation
- slowing potential growth of labor supply
- slowing growth in GDP
- Amerikkka giving up it's civil liberties and person privacy at the fastest rate since the countries founding.
- great deals for SLUM-lord to pick up bargain prices on inner cities shit-holes they can rent back to functionally illiterate ObamaCare welfare-dependents.
HEY! I bet some of those people could work in the new Public Hospitals!
Do enjoy your ObamaCare.
Obama White House: US likely faces ‘permanently slower’ economic growth
It should be noted, Obama is NOT to blame for the economy - you people are. He's just a symptom of your appetite for violence. You are the ones that continue to ONLY elect the demagogue that promises you the most (See: ObamaCare). You that always turn to the State use of Force to solve any and every problem. You who can't seem to stand living freely - or see anyone else live freely. You're to blame. We WILL continue to loss our privacy rights, our civil liberties and we will become less prosperous. You will continue to only elect people who promise to steal from one group and give to you. And eventually we'll be as poor as any other third world shit hole. Which, if you've ever bothered to visit one of the Public Housing slums you voted for stuffing the people you put out of work by raising minimum wage and then regulated them out of competing with you - you'd see is already here. Generations of third world slum living - right under your nose.
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Michael
It was implemented in January of 2010. Insurance companies could no longer cancel policies, fail to cover pre-existing conditions or put caps on care. In addition the Medicade expansion gave millions access to care they did not have before. Payment reforms are a large part of the reduction in costs, those reforms also went into effect in 2010. The part of the ACA that set up exchanges is the LAST part of a multi-year process. So, yes, Obamacare IS the major factor in reduced healthcare costs since 2010. It is working, you and yours can bite me.
The rest of your screed is pure bovine barnyard fertilizer. It comes from being an ignorant ideologue, I guess. One wonders just how useful it is for you to continue here, just sayin'.
Grumpy
It was implemented in January of 2010. Insurance companies could no longer cancel policies, fail to cover pre-existing conditions or put caps on care. In addition the Medicade expansion gave millions access to care they did not have before. Payment reforms are a large part of the reduction in costs, those reforms also went into effect in 2010. The part of the ACA that set up exchanges is the LAST part of a multi-year process. So, yes, Obamacare IS the major factor in reduced healthcare costs since 2010. It is working, you and yours can bite me.
The rest of your screed is pure bovine barnyard fertilizer. It comes from being an ignorant ideologue, I guess. One wonders just how useful it is for you to continue here, just sayin'.
Grumpy
Unfortunately for you that is not an example. So I again repeat my challenge to you for one example of a successful libertarian healthcare system. You cannot because none exist.
You are creating a straw man. I never said we were the Swiss. I said there are several healthcare systems that are more effective and more efficient than our pre-Obamacare healthcare system. And I said the Swiss, known for their successful capitalist economy, have a healthcare system very similar to Obamacare and it is half as expensive as the current US healthcare system.
And your bit about public housing and education isn’t true nor is it relevant to the discussion of healthcare. It’s chaff, it’s a red herring, it’s a distracton.
LOL no that is you using the straw man fallacy again, the Swiss as an example have a healthcare system like Obamacare and they have not lost their personal privacy nor have they sacrificed personal or civil liberties and they like their healthcare system because it works for them. They have better care and less expensive care.
No that is you making stuff up again.
Yeah, before it was FULLY IMPLEMENTED.
This is from your reference,
“People with health insurance saw increases in their medical costs slow from 2009 to 2011, signaling potential structural changes in the industry that could cut health-care inflation and save the U.S. hundreds of billions of dollars, according to two studies.
The changes include greater use of generic drugs, higher out-of-pocket costs and more efficient care, a trend encouraged by the 2010 health-care overhaul, said David Cutler, a Harvard University health economist. If they permanently slow growth, the U.S. may reap $770 billion in unexpected savings from projected expenditures by 2021, wiping out a fifth of the budget deficit, one of the studies found” - Bloomberg
The recession ended in 2009. Attributing all of the healthcare cost slowdown to a recession which ended 5 years ago is more than a stretch, it’s a fabrication.
LET'S SEE: The cost of college is still rising, just not as fast as in previous years. The College Board is out with a report that says the average price for tuition and fees at public four-year schools rose 2.9% this year to $8,893 for in-state students. That’s the smallest increase since the 1970s.
Don't worry - for the young that you feed off of - not only have you ruined many of their opportunities in life by flipping houses and renting them to them instead of giving them a go at owning a home, giving your self cheap university by selling bonds you don't have to pay back, leaving them the bill, your entire generation bailed themselves out when the GFC hit, instead of doing the right thing and letting the criminal banks that own you fail - - and then you capped it off by trying to STICK THEM with YOUR healthcare costs. That YOU should have planned for.
Or at least you're going to try to.
See, I think, you're going to find things are going to work out the way you planned.
But, we'll see.
“According to the February 2013 CBO estimates, for example, potential growth of the labour supply has been irregularly slowing from 2.5% annual growth from 1974-1981 to only 0.8% from 2002-12 and is projected to slow further to only 0.6% over the next five years,”
- slowing technological innovation
- slowing potential growth of labor supply
- slowing growth in GDP
- Amerikkka giving up it's civil liberties and person privacy at the fastest rate since the countries founding.
- great deals for SLUM-lord to pick up bargain prices on inner cities shit-holes they can rent back to functionally illiterate ObamaCare welfare-dependents.
HEY! I bet some of those people could work in the new Public Hospitals!
Do enjoy your ObamaCare.
Obama White House: US likely faces ‘permanently slower’ economic growth
It should be noted, Obama is NOT to blame for the economy - you people are. He's just a symptom of your appetite for violence. You are the ones that continue to ONLY elect the demagogue that promises you the most (See: ObamaCare). You that always turn to the State use of Force to solve any and every problem. You who can't seem to stand living freely - or see anyone else live freely. You're to blame. We WILL continue to loss our privacy rights, our civil liberties and we will become less prosperous. You will continue to only elect people who promise to steal from one group and give to you. And eventually we'll be as poor as any other third world shit hole. Which, if you've ever bothered to visit one of the Public Housing slums you voted for stuffing the people you put out of work by raising minimum wage and then regulated them out of competing with you - you'd see is already here. Generations of third world slum living - right under your nose.
You have a bunch of gobbledygook going on there along with your machinations of evil. Unfortunately for you the economy has been steadily growing for 5 years now and most if not all of your claims are false. Unemployment is down and average household net wealth is at historic highs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/09/us-usa-economy-wealth-idUSBRE9B80RP20131209