Could we get an intelligent discussion going about the nephilim? Specifically, what it says in the pre-Biblical texts is what I'm interested in finding out more about. This would be pre-deluge, I assume. I'm trying to learn more about the pre-deluge era and about Noah. Was Noah considered to be nephilim? Please, no Xians need reply. I'm looking for intelligent discussion only.
Nephilim
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
What pre-Biblical texts specifically?
Re: Re: Nephilim
Like the Sumerian texts, for example. Are you familiar with any other pre-flood texts that would have info on nephilim?
Like the Sumerian texts, for example. Are you familiar with any other pre-flood texts that would have info on nephilim?
Do you refer to the pseudepigrapha or the apocrypha? Or earlier? It seems that there is also a role-playing game called "Nephilim", so it's muddling a search on the net...
Pseudepigrapha
I'm not familiar with the pseudepigrapha. Recently the pre-deluge books were mentioned. I think one was the Book of Enoch that I found interesting. I'm hoping to hear from our learned group about the nephilim. I'm not talking about some role-playing game.
I'm not familiar with the pseudepigrapha. Recently the pre-deluge books were mentioned. I think one was the Book of Enoch that I found interesting. I'm hoping to hear from our learned group about the nephilim. I'm not talking about some role-playing game.
Medicine Woman,
Pre-Biblical and Pre-Flood don't have to be the same thing. The flood wasn't the first story in the Bible.
But as far as Nephilim in pre-Biblical books goes...None that I know of.
But there is debate as to what the Nephilim were (In the Biblical stories, of course) Most Bibles change the word "Nephilim" to "Giants." But because of the uncertainty of this translation, some Bibles have left the word "Nephilim" in the text, untranslated.
Zackariah Sitchin, whom isn't the most credible scholar in the world, actually translated the word into "Those who have come down from above." The biggest problem in figuring out what exactly the Nephilim were supposed to be lies in thier parents.
They were said to be the offspring of the "Sons of God" and the "Daughters of Man."
But how could the Sons of God be human? The most famous Son of God is Jesus, and he was, as far as the Bible says, was God himself. And if the Sons and Daughters lineage is clearly divided by the "Man/God" monikers, then what, exactly, were the Sons of God?
Some say angels, some say deamons in human form, some say Nobles and Kings.
So, to answer your question, the problem with finding Nephilim in anything other than the Bible is the fact that we are no more clear as to what the Nephilim were than we were when we first began translating the texts.
JD
Pre-Biblical and Pre-Flood don't have to be the same thing. The flood wasn't the first story in the Bible.
But as far as Nephilim in pre-Biblical books goes...None that I know of.
But there is debate as to what the Nephilim were (In the Biblical stories, of course) Most Bibles change the word "Nephilim" to "Giants." But because of the uncertainty of this translation, some Bibles have left the word "Nephilim" in the text, untranslated.
Zackariah Sitchin, whom isn't the most credible scholar in the world, actually translated the word into "Those who have come down from above." The biggest problem in figuring out what exactly the Nephilim were supposed to be lies in thier parents.
They were said to be the offspring of the "Sons of God" and the "Daughters of Man."
But how could the Sons of God be human? The most famous Son of God is Jesus, and he was, as far as the Bible says, was God himself. And if the Sons and Daughters lineage is clearly divided by the "Man/God" monikers, then what, exactly, were the Sons of God?
Some say angels, some say deamons in human form, some say Nobles and Kings.
So, to answer your question, the problem with finding Nephilim in anything other than the Bible is the fact that we are no more clear as to what the Nephilim were than we were when we first began translating the texts.
JD
Read this about that rather fascinating story. I would love to believe it so much that Im almost willing to compromise facts but thats not a very healthy way to live.
http://skepdic.com/sitchin.html
http://www.facadenovel.com/sitchinerrors.htm
etc
Have fun and don´t cry
http://skepdic.com/sitchin.html
http://www.facadenovel.com/sitchinerrors.htm
etc
Have fun and don´t cry
Hey Medicine Woman, I am posting some links that you may find of interest. The first set of links are to the Book of Enoch, there are several versions, the Book of Giants, and Enoch and the Watchers. There is also a link to a forum I read regularly where giants, ancient mysteries, etc. are heavily discussed, I recommend it.
General forum:
http://pub69.ezboard.com/bancientlosttreasures
Giant specific forum:
http://pub69.ezboard.com/fancientlosttreasuresfrm16
Everyone is very friendly on the forum, and if you post a question there, they will probably fall all over themselves to answer you. Very respectful, sometimes one guy gets picked on in fun, you will see why. I post under truth there also.
I recommend starting with this link for a short history on the Book of Enoch for some background:
http://apoc.faithweb.com/pseudo/enochs2.htm
then the various versions:
http://apoc.faithweb.com/pseudo/enoch.htm
http://apoc.faithweb.com/pseudo/enoch1.htm
http://apoc.faithweb.com/pseudo/enoch1b.htm
This link is to a copy of the Book of Giants fragment found with the Dead Sea Scrolls:
http://apoc.faithweb.com/dsea/012.htm
This link is to Enoch and the Watchers:
http://apoc.faithweb.com/dsea/014.htm
This last link is a discussion on the ancients/giants by LDS (Mormon) scholar Hugh Nibley. It is a very interesting read, remember though, .it is strictly his own opinion and not the view of the Church and not endorsed by the Church in any way That said the article is an easy read compared to most of his writings concerning Egyptology, which I frankly get lost in, and I am fairly well educated and studied.
http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?id=75&table=transcripts
General forum:
http://pub69.ezboard.com/bancientlosttreasures
Giant specific forum:
http://pub69.ezboard.com/fancientlosttreasuresfrm16
Everyone is very friendly on the forum, and if you post a question there, they will probably fall all over themselves to answer you. Very respectful, sometimes one guy gets picked on in fun, you will see why. I post under truth there also.
I recommend starting with this link for a short history on the Book of Enoch for some background:
http://apoc.faithweb.com/pseudo/enochs2.htm
then the various versions:
http://apoc.faithweb.com/pseudo/enoch.htm
http://apoc.faithweb.com/pseudo/enoch1.htm
http://apoc.faithweb.com/pseudo/enoch1b.htm
This link is to a copy of the Book of Giants fragment found with the Dead Sea Scrolls:
http://apoc.faithweb.com/dsea/012.htm
This link is to Enoch and the Watchers:
http://apoc.faithweb.com/dsea/014.htm
This last link is a discussion on the ancients/giants by LDS (Mormon) scholar Hugh Nibley. It is a very interesting read, remember though, .it is strictly his own opinion and not the view of the Church and not endorsed by the Church in any way That said the article is an easy read compared to most of his writings concerning Egyptology, which I frankly get lost in, and I am fairly well educated and studied.
http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?id=75&table=transcripts
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
You two truly deserve each other!
spoilsport
Registered Senior Member
As I understand it most people interpret Nephilim to be descendants angels, demons, some sort of aliens, or kings. Biblically Noah was none of those, so I guess using those definitions we would have to say "no" Noah wasn't Nephilim. If there are other definitions, I guess apply those as need be.
firingseeds
Registered Senior Member
medicine woman
a discussion came up about the giants in an earlier thread- and it was very interesting. the way i see it, the old legends could be quite true- that people worshipped these heavenly beings etc and they made their marks on the people of the earth. no way does that interfere with the truth of the gospel, but just re-affirms it. bless u- u a trier
a discussion came up about the giants in an earlier thread- and it was very interesting. the way i see it, the old legends could be quite true- that people worshipped these heavenly beings etc and they made their marks on the people of the earth. no way does that interfere with the truth of the gospel, but just re-affirms it. bless u- u a trier
Agent Smith
Registered Senior Member
THe Nephilim were the sons of Angels and Humans. According to the book of Enoch, Shemyza brought around 200-400 angels and supposedly reproduced with Humans (even animals) and their offspring were supposedly Giants. Further in the book of Enoch, it mentions that the Giants slew men and spread great havoc and was one of the principle causes for the flood. One of them also taught men how to forge weapons of iron. It is further said that the giants were warned of a great flood but didnt heed the warnings to repent.
This all came from the dead sea scrolls.
This all came from the dead sea scrolls.
firingseeds
Registered Senior Member
nice, agent smith
Sitchin did put an equalsign between nefilim and anunaki.
an = sky, heaven
ki = earth, ground
anunaki = heaven - something - ground.
nefilim = heaven fallen ground something
In case you didnt know, anunaki is main characters in the sumerian mythology. They are not the gods, but something inbetween i think
an = sky, heaven
ki = earth, ground
anunaki = heaven - something - ground.
nefilim = heaven fallen ground something
In case you didnt know, anunaki is main characters in the sumerian mythology. They are not the gods, but something inbetween i think
firingseeds
Registered Senior Member
well, medicine woman- just shows the power, or importance, of the bible, in any equation
shalom
shalom
Sitchin is an idiot. I've seen UFOs, and I believe that aliens have visited us, but there is no way, given the evidence (More like lack thereof) that we are in any way alien offspring.
And Firingseeds,
What shows the power or importance of the Bible? In what equation?
JD
Agent Smith
Registered Senior Member
okay dont laugh at me but i believe that all those ufo sightings and perhaps abductions are actually the work of demons.