Nature or nurture

Ophiolite, for all your "big and interesting words", you are only partly right.

Yes we did start with discussing the genetic vs environment aspect. But that discussion is more or less over.....and we have agreed upon the basics. There is no reason why the issue should not be discussed in its wider aspects.
 
Buddha1 said:
Ophiolite, for all your "big and interesting words", you are only partly right..
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There is part of your problem Bhudda1. The 'big and interesting words' are a way of capturing meaning rather precisely. Such a tendency is notably absent from most of your hypotheses. Perhaps if you made more of an effort to define clearly the terms you are using and the scope of the proposed discussion at the outset you would get more meaningful discussion and fewer slings and arrows.
 
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Ophiolite said:
There is part of your problem Happeh.
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Don't bring me into this big man. You said you were coming to my house for proof of my theory.

Then you ran away and I never heard from you again.
 
My apologies Happeh. The two of you crazies blend into one in my mind. I have amended my post to what I meant. Your problem, Happeh, is far more severe than B1's. He has some chance, with proper care, of leading a normal life in the community. I see no such future for yourself.
I am still waiting to hear which city you live in. If you posted an answer I missed it. Go ahead. Inform me again.
 
Ophiolite said:
A Bhudda1, my little "because I take a lone stand on issues makes me a visionary not a nutter" friend. You are at it again.
In the debate of Nature versus Nurture, the question is one concerning the relative influences of genetic character, as expressed in the phenotype, versus those of the totality of the organism's environment. You, and several other posters, are using other definitions of these two words, that are perfectly valid, but not in this context. Your whole thesis is thus a storm in a teacup suspended on a quivering jelly of imprecision.
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Good translation.

Yes, you may ask for translation here as nurture might has just changed the nature's/ancient/logical or layman's language with somewhat similar meaning. That is what, which might have happened with old, ancient, persisting with great repute, knowledges---our ancesstor's or inherant properties..:) Had we previously covered a mountain upto some hight, but looking at other side of mountain which looked to us bit easy or green, stepped down and started afresh climbing again on same mountain?

Probably we were at 75% level previously, may be about just 25% level now. No doubt,we discovered the new path which has different look, to reach the same destination--our acheivement. :confused:

Do you want to understand it in nature or nurture? ;)
 
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Kumar, regretably none of the above made any sense to me at all. I would welcome a further attempt on your part to clarify your meaning.
 
Yes possible. Anyway sorry. Let us disucuss about unnaturalities mutated/seated in our phenotype due to our nurture (obiously not to count natural nurture).
 
The professor is not to be taken seriously. He just comes to bide his time, likes to instigate and criticise people he doesn't agree with (or doesn't want to agree with), and on topics which he neither understands, nor care about --- and just when you start getting serious about him, he leaves you high and dry, tugging at your hair.

I know just another one like him. He is called Avtar!
 
I don't know if this means anything to the continuing of the thread. But I will tell you guys an example of nurture, destroying MY nature. My question about this and it's relation is is this on topic.

First I believe that nurture, if this is what you're saying, can destroy a persons nature as is natural. Being brought up in a home where your dad is a humiliated egotistical mouse, can destroy ones life.

Sorry, maybe I don't understand
 
Ophiolite said:
OK. Can you begin by defining what you mean by an unnaturality.
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Few definitions; Where there is no inherant sense of right and wrong; not in accordance with or determined by nature; contrary to nature. In violation of a natural law, It may be unnatural for a child to know and take interest in "death". :)

Let us also clarify definition of "nurture:-

Nurture: The act of bringing up: The sum of environmental influences and conditions acting on an organism.

Ok.
 
existabrent said:
I don't know if this means anything to the continuing of the thread. But I will tell you guys an example of nurture, destroying MY nature. My question about this and it's relation is is this on topic.

First I believe that nurture, if this is what you're saying, can destroy a persons nature as is natural. Being brought up in a home where your dad is a humiliated egotistical mouse, can destroy ones life.

Sorry, maybe I don't understand
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Yes good thought.Time effect and past deed might have made anyone to be borned anyone in certain environment--by natural selection---is nature. Parents, society or otherwise making anyone alike as you mentioned is by nurture. Natural and social factors thought look different still interrelated with each other due to time factor.
 
Are people living in societies under modern lifestyle and environment, mostly "natured" or "nurshed"???
 
Kumar - I do not find your definition of nature very helpful or relevant to a discussion on biology. Nature relates, as I noted before, to the genetic heritage of an organism. Nurture relates, as you have defined quite well, to the environmental influences on the organism.
Why is a specific individual 6' tall? It will be a combination of nature and nurture. His nature i.e. his genes will determine the range of height he may achieve. His nurture will determine what height within that range will be achieved.
People in modern societies are thus mainly influenced by nature. They are people: not crabs, or papaya, or rhodedendrons, or e.coli.
 
Why we then discuss nurture seprately?

Phenotype changes can also be "environmently effected". If we count those "environmently effects" as natural then nothing can be unnatural. Whatever we are doing and getting today, our children may get something of that . Would you also say that our children got that naturally?
 
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