Muslims do not worship the "black rock" dude.

W

WildBlueYonder

Guest
786 said:
Muslims do not worship the "black rock" dude. Learn the history of that rock first. I'll share a little bit in brief.

The Kabaa (black rock) was built by Abraham and his son Ishmael. Later it became a house of idolatry. Filled with 300 or more gods. Later on Muhammad (pbuh) cleaned the Kabaa of the idols. Then it became a place to worship. Now let me tell you. There is NOTHING special of that rock. It is just a place which every Muslim faces to pray. This is an order by God which we obey, nothing more.
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all you geology dudes that have done the hajj may be able to shed some light on that rock, possible meteorite
but dudes & dudettes, muslims do worship the rock, check out what they do:

like so,
from:
http://www.hajj.ca/steps.html

(2) TAWAF & SA'I
*Make Tawaf (circumvolution)
around Kaaba, seven times while
glorifying God.
*Walk between Safa and Marwa
seven times with occasional
trotting, (Sa'i)

(6) FAREWELL TAWAF
*Return to Mecca and observe
a farewell circumvolution (Tawaf)
seven times around Kaaba.
* Cut or shorten hair.
*All Ihram restrictions are now
lifted and Hajj is completed.

Other incorrect , forbidden acts during Hajj:
1) Kissing of black stone
2) Bathing/drinking zam zam as part of rites
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if its just a rock & not an idol, then remove it from the kaa'ba

also, Abraham never visited Mecca, he was busy farther noth in Canaan, you know modern Israel/Palestine. Ishmael may have ended up there a few times, but never his father,
also, both Israel & Ishmael buried Abraham. Funny thing though, if Abraham was a muslim, why didn't he name his sons; Israullah & Ishmaullah?
 
Dear Randolpho,

Thankyou for picking that up for me. When the guy called my Bluff on everything I knew about Mecca, I was caught a tad short. The only thing I know is that Mohammed went to War so that Muslims would not have to go on Piligrimage to Mecca; that he lost that War, and now Muslims have to go on Pilgrimmage to Mecca. I would have been lenient and interrpreted their Worship as not crossing the Line of Idolatry; but the Muslims have never been lenient regarding Christianities Trinitarianism, which they construe as Polytheism, although Christians make repeated pleas that The Trinity is indeed One Substance and One Nature. So as they were willing to extend know Charity of Tolerance, I was loath to extend any theological tolerance toward them. Bowing to a Black Rock instead of to God... Indeed!
 
If the Kaaba is an idol, then so is the Vatican. And so are all the images of Jesus on the cross which are put up in churches. Don't you think?
 
James R said:
If the Kaaba is an idol, then so is the Vatican. And so are all the images of Jesus on the cross which are put up in churches. Don't you think?
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Good question.
 
Randolfo said:
all you geology dudes that have done the hajj may be able to shed some light on that rock, possible meteorite
but dudes & dudettes, muslims do worship the rock, check out what they do:

like so,
from:
http://www.hajj.ca/steps.html



if its just a rock & not an idol, then remove it from the kaa'ba

also, Abraham never visited Mecca, he was busy farther noth in Canaan, you know modern Israel/Palestine. Ishmael may have ended up there a few times, but never his father,
also, both Israel & Ishmael buried Abraham. Funny thing though, if Abraham was a muslim, why didn't he name his sons; Israullah & Ishmaullah?
Click to expand...

As I said before it was a house of worship made by Abraham. This is the Muslim point. So I don't expect you to believe in it. But if you do believe that it was built by Abraham then you will see the that you don't take out a worshiping place. Funny thing is that I am a Muslim but my name is Fahad. A muslim name doesn't have to have "ullah". This shows you lack of knowledge.
 
Leo Volont said:
Dear Randolpho,

Thankyou for picking that up for me. When the guy called my Bluff on everything I knew about Mecca, I was caught a tad short. The only thing I know is that Mohammed went to War so that Muslims would not have to go on Piligrimage to Mecca; that he lost that War, and now Muslims have to go on Pilgrimmage to Mecca.
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Where do you get this information from. And which war are you talking about. Let me share the wars that I know about which took place in that time.

1st War. The Muslims won
2nd War. Muslims lost. Reason was Muhammad told his people not to leave the hill top. But when the people saw that the enemy was running away, they left the hill shouting and being proud that they had won. Later they got attacked from behind. Since they disobeyed the prophet they had lost. This shows that it doesn't matter if you are a Muslim or not. To win you must follow the prophet and the laws of war set by the prophet.

3rd War (Actually wasn't really a war) Muslims conquered Mecca without shedding any blood. Meccans had given up. GO ASK A HISTORIAN IF YOU DON"T BELIEVE ME.
 
James R said:
If the Kaaba is an idol, then so is the Vatican. And so are all the images of Jesus on the cross which are put up in churches. Don't you think?
Click to expand...

Nobody bows to the Vatican five times a day. And nobody has given us a binding Religious Obligation to visit the Vatican once in our Lifetime for risk of our Eternal Souls. If you cannot see the difference, then you are too blunt to consider talking too... and yet still for some reason the typical moderator... hmmmmmm.
 
786 said:
3rd War (Actually wasn't really a war) Muslims conquered Mecca without shedding any blood. Meccans had given up. GO ASK A HISTORIAN IF YOU DON"T BELIEVE ME.
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This is one of those Miracles that occur when you write your own History Books. Now, consider, why would the Meccans give up in a War without losing a single man, unless Mohammed had come to make a Quick Peace. It is in this Quick Peace that Mohammed sold you all out. What started as a Sin -- the Worship of Things in Mecca would be enjoined on all Muslims for All Eternity. What was the payoff? Who knows. The guy who would marry the Dead Boss's haggard old Widow for a few buck probably was willing to sell All of Islam into Eternal Bondage for ... I hope it was worth it. You guys are still paying for it. That obligatory Pilgrimage to Mecca, must cost you a fist full of bucks, and so I hope that whatever Mohammed sold you out for was plenty worth it.
 
Leo Volont said:
This is one of those Miracles that occur when you write your own History Books. Now, consider, why would the Meccans give up in a War without losing a single man, unless Mohammed had come to make a Quick Peace. It is in this Quick Peace that Mohammed sold you all out. What started as a Sin -- the Worship of Things in Mecca would be enjoined on all Muslims for All Eternity. What was the payoff? Who knows. The guy who would marry the Dead Boss's haggard old Widow for a few buck probably was willing to sell All of Islam into Eternal Bondage for ... I hope it was worth it. You guys are still paying for it. That obligatory Pilgrimage to Mecca, must cost you a fist full of bucks, and so I hope that whatever Mohammed sold you out for was plenty worth it.
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They gave up because they knew they will lose. Let me tell you how. In the first war most of the leaders had died. Second war, as I said the Muslim had almost won but didn't because of disobeying the prophet, thus meaning most of the Meccans had died.

Third war. Muslims had 10000 people. That was alot of people in that time. And meccans didn't have that many people, not even close. Because most of them died in the previous battle. Let me put it in a ratio. 1000 Muslims : 50 Meccans. See the difference.
 
Nobody bows to the Vatican five times a day. And nobody has given us a binding Religious Obligation to visit the Vatican once in our Lifetime for risk of our Eternal Souls.
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But you're supposed to go to confession regularly if you're Catholic, right? And attend church. And what's the deal with the bread and the wine? And all those statues of the Virgin Mary? Are they idols?
 
The Sa‘i symbolizes support and help for the cause of Islam. Abraham (sws) set the greatest example in this regard. He took his son to the altar and walked him between Safa and Marwah. This very act of his became a part of Hajj in the shape of Sa‘i.
Shaving off hair from the head is an ancient symbol of becoming a slave and when a pilgrim shaves his head, he declares himself to be the slave of his Lord.

So everything is a symbol for something. So is the praying, facing towards Kabaa.

First of all Abraham built it as a worshiping place. So Abraham prayed there. So that became the original place to worship. Now see this. That all the Muslims face 1 place. This shows that God is the center of everything. Everything is like a symbol.

People go into circles around it. This shows that everything revolves (center) around God.

The Rock is not important in itself. But is important because God made it important by making it our worshipping place.
 
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James R said:
But you're supposed to go to confession regularly if you're Catholic, right? And attend church. And what's the deal with the bread and the wine? And all those statues of the Virgin Mary? Are they idols?
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So? I am a Catholic. I have no problem with any of that.

What I am doing is throwing back the Hypocracy of those Muslims back into their own Faces. They condemn the Church for its Trinity because there is the slightest shade of an infraction which can only be suspected. All while they commit the most blatant Idolatry which they wouldn't hesitate to rebuke everyone else for.
 
Leo Volont said:
So? I am a Catholic. I have no problem with any of that.

What I am doing is throwing back the Hypocracy of those Muslims back into their own Faces. They condemn the Church for its Trinity because there is the slightest shade of an infraction which can only be suspected. All while they commit the most blatant Idolatry which they wouldn't hesitate to rebuke everyone else for.
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Idolatry is worshipping an idol, or an object. We don't worship an object. Muslims worship God only, and nothing else. This is said in the Quran many many times. I thought you would know that.
 
who started this thread
rodolfo did?
rodolfo youre religious?
what is youre philosophy
black rock in youre head
you smartass
tell me something
why dont you become a preist
you eat,drink,shit religion
tell me black rock
is rodolfo black or white cause
i dont know
black rock white rock yellow rock
even the rocks have particulars now
thanks to you and religion
next pick a better thread
cause this one is full of rocks
nice joke huh?

Philosopher Philocrazy
 
786 said:
The Sa‘i symbolizes support and help for the cause of Islam. Abraham (sws) set the greatest example in this regard. He took his son to the altar and walked him between Safa and Marwah. This very act of his became a part of Hajj in the shape of Sa‘i.
Shaving off hair from the head is an ancient symbol of becoming a slave and when a pilgrim shaves his head, he declares himself to be the slave of his Lord.

So everything is a symbol for something. So is the praying, facing towards Kabaa.

First of all Abraham built it as a worshiping place. So Abraham prayed there. So that became the original place to worship. Now see this. That all the Muslims face 1 place. This shows that God is the center of everything. Everything is like a symbol.

People go into circles around it. This shows that everything revolves (center) around God.

The Rock is not important in itself. But is important because God made it important by making it our worshipping place.
Click to expand...

It is so wonderful that Islam has an answer for all accusations. "Our Idols are not important in themselves... they are only Symbols". Was this what your Swordsmen said when they invaded Asia Minor, Greece, The Bulkans, and Spain. You didn't hesitate to destroy all of our Symbols, and to kill those who would protect them.

No. Islam is full of explainations for Itself but won't listen to the Explanations offered by Christianity for the Trinity, or from Hinduism to explain its Polytheism. You are ready enough to believe your own excuses, but everyone else gets The Sword.
 
786 said:
So you think Islam spread through Sword?
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Yeap.

And taxes. In areas covered by the Muslim Conquest, the Muslims would give all Muslims a total Tax exemption. Only Christians, Jews and Zorastrians would have to pay for Everything. In some areas their were so many 'Conversion' that the Muslim Authorities complained and disallowed them because to the Public Officials the Money was more important then the Spread of Islam.

It would have been okay if Islam ever 'took' as a core Ethical Foundation for a Religion. But the Power of Islam as an Ethical Force has never been able to transcend the Klannishness and Tribalism which has not diminished one iota in the Islamic World all this time. As a Religion, it is a Big Dud.
 
I don't see how the page cited in the topic post shows worship of the rock.
 
Leo:

You're not very consistent in your arguments. Why is idolatry ok for Catholics, but not ok for Muslims? Why is it ok for Christian crusaders to destroy mosques and symbols of Islam, but not ok for Muslims to deface Christian symbols?
 
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