Not if you don't have it in writting in my state! I'm in Florida and by law the hospital must keep you alive unless you have written it down and posted it with them that you don't want to be revived if you are "brain dead".
Murder?
- Thread starter Orleander
- Start date
Not if you don't have it in writting in my state! I'm in Florida and by law the hospital must keep you alive unless you have written it down and posted it with them that you don't want to be revived if you are "brain dead".
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
That's what I meant, they will resuscitate you regardless of your DNR tattoo.
You need a legal document for that.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Seems that if you really have told your wife this a hundred times you must make sure it is legally acknowledged and in some sort of notarized will, as this was the trouble in the Terry Shiver case, they didn’t have it in writing and regardless of what was going on since she hadn’t had a will, that there was where the problem lay.
Seems that if you really have told your wife this a hundred times you must make sure it is legally acknowledged and in some sort of notarized will, as this was the trouble in the Terry Shiver case, they didn’t have it in writing and regardless of what was going on since she hadn’t had a will, that there was where the problem lay.
As far as burden on a family, I have not seen mention the financial burden of keeping her alive and the medical care, as that was a huge issue even if the family is wanting to pay all the cost, it’s still a burden.
After even a year of such medical nightmares and facing the fact his wife was diagnosed with a permanent vegetated state, I cannot find fault with her husband for having a girlfriend as maybe the relationship developed out of his need for some type of emotional and psychological support, and the girlfriend in return felt an attraction out of caring and love and their relationship happened, if they had already knew each other or worked together those feelings could have developed only after the medical tragedy, and I am in no position to judge.
Life insurance policy, bet most of that was eaten up by funeral costs and other related issues. I am not sure the husband even collect on the insurance or if the money was signed over to a medical debt but he didn’t want her dead for the money.
I don't think her being starved to death was a huge weight off her parents chest. They were the ones fighting and fighting to keep her alive. Her husband simply could have divorced her and moved on. Her parents would have taken over her care, which is what they wanted.
If it were my child, it would not be a burden. How cold of a parent do you have to be to think taking care of your child is a burden? :bugeye:
Sure, why not. He was the only person she said this too and he gained financially from her death.
ANYWAYS, she is gone now. This was not a 'what would you do' question. It was not a "is her husband a bastard' thread.
It is about starving someone to death. Is that murder? Apparently a parent can't starve a child to death, but a judge can. A judge can have a criminal put to death with lethal injection, but I've never heard of anyone being starved to death.
That is one selfish opinion.:
1. You are using up resources, medical spaces.
2. You are wasting your loved ones emotions. As long as you are still alive as a vegetable, they can't let you go EMOTIONALLY.
In short, you are CRUEL....
The Sciavo case just showed how screwed up the American religious right, including politics....Her husband's wish should have been followed from day 1....
Just what did her husband make from her death? He took care of her for more than 15 years before she died. He was with her day and night for months on end at his and her home. The medical bills were very high and not all of them were paid that is why the fund was established to help pay for all of the costs he has been burdened with.
And Selfish. Wouldn't you just love to be her (Orleanders) family, if something like that happened . Especially since she has given strict instructions to them to do everything to keep her alive no matter what. I think she just wouldn't want her family to move on without her. Any idiot knows that until you are actually gone and buried the emotional stress, or guilt of not visiting or whatever would ALWAYS be on your mind. She talks about loving her husband and kids, that is not love putting your loved ones through that for a span of 10, 15, 20 yrs.
As you said not to mention the Costs! Her family could even lose their house and everything trying to pay the bills. I am sure even in such places like Canada where we basically have free healthcare they only cover a certain amount for so long.
I don't blame the husband at all. That is a lot to put on someone. The way Orleander paints this picture is like he tried to get rid of her soon after she fell into this state. I read somewhere he even became a medical student or something within that time. 15 Yrs this went on. I can't even imagine. My son just turned 12 and it seems like he has been around forever. The daily pain of seeing your wife like that for 15 yrs....omg that really is torture. He did his duty as a husband, far beyond what a lot of other husbands or wives may have done. Enough was enough.
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
I agree with that. Suggesting that the husband was some callous prick who wanted her dead is absurd. She was on life support for years, and he hung in there. That he eventually took comfort in another human being is perfectly normal.
It's not like he unilaterally made the decision. There was a court proceeding, evidence, hearings, guardians, medical testimony, an order from the judge and reviews by federal judiciary thanks to pin heads in the Republican Congress.
Impugning his character on limited evidence of his bias is a childish analysis. You might as well trot out the old canard that "maybe" he had something to do with her "accident."
That she was starved is a side effect of the pro-life-even-if-its-miserable-and-pointless crowd. They could not have killed her more quickly because you aren't allowed to take affirmative acts to end the life under state law in Florida. You can refuse to act, or stop an action (like stopping the force-feedings they were giving her), but you cannot take a step that swiftly kills, like a lethal injection.
In any event, she was in a persistent vegetative state. She was not conscious, not even a little bit, as her doctors all agreed. If she's not conscious, she couldn't "experience" it in any meaningful way. There was neither pleasure nor pain in her life, it was just existence. She was not "asleep" and dreaming, because that's not what a PVS is (and there are tests that are indicative of dreaming,in any event).
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\Thanks, and no prob
Euthanasia is legal here in The Netherlands. But the patient has to ask for it him/herself either directly or by previous declaration.
There are also rules to it. The doctor must :
a) be convinced that the patients decision was voluntarily and well thought though.
b) be convinced that the patient experiences unbearable suffering without the prospect of ever getting better.
c) have comprehensibly briefed the patient about their situation and prospects.
d) have come to the conclusion, together with the patient, that under the circumstances euthanasia is the only reasonable solution.
e) have contacted at least one independent physician to meet and examine the patient. This doctor must produce a report that concludes points a) through d) have been met.
f) administered the euthanasia with the utmost medical care.
so in the Netherlands, where euthanasia is legal, they would never starve a person to death?
I have been second guessing myself with the 'selfish' attacks I have read. So I asked my husband (he hasn't read this thread) if it would be selfish of me to ask that he take care of me if something happened to me. He didn't ask, "well how long" or "how sick would you be?" He said, "I vowed for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health. I love you and I would be some kind of shallow bastard to not care about you if you got sick." I said "How long til it became a burden" He said "What the hell is wrong with you? Have you lost your mind. How can loving someone be a burden? You take care of me, I take care of you. That's how it is"
Do some of you not know what loving someone is? Did your grandparents and parents act that way if one of them became ill? When is an act of love a burden?
Do some of you not know what loving someone is? Did your grandparents and parents act that way if one of them became ill? When is an act of love a burden?
So you didnt ask him about being brain dead? You presented it as sick? Like cancer ?
Sorry orleander but what does your husband say if you ask him if this (insert wardrobe item here) makes you look fat?
When your kids have to drop out of college because the education fund has been drained to pay for feeding tubes and diapers and nursing homes. When the home your husband (and the rest of your family) have previously enjoyed is sold because the bills have overwhelmed the finances and you can only file bankruptcy once every seven years or so.
Besides, eventually the doctors get sick of the never ending cycle of illness that affects people in these conditions and petition for the ending of 'heroic' measures and let nature take its course. Thats if your HMO hasnt already killed you off cuz your costing them money.
It's easy to say to a person that is alive and healthy, what you would do. Wait until something like that happens and see if you think the same way. I have heard enough stories about this kind of thing from my friend at the hospital. The wasted lives of family members who drag themselves to the hospital day after day...yr after yr. How it looks like life has kicked the shit out of them and they never smile. All they feel is pain for what they have to witness everyday. There is a woman who comes for her son for over 5 yrs now. My friend said sometimes she sits with her and brings her a muffin and a coffee because she looks like she never eats. She has become disillusion and holds on to the hope that her son will someday snap out of it. There is no chance and the Dr have told her that. She still feels the need to keep hoping.
I think maybe you don't understand what loving someone is. It is not having them stand by your side for over 15 yrs, dedicating their life to someone who doesn't even know who they are, or that they are even there. It is not torturing them with seeing how you are now, comparing it to the person you used to be. Going home and looking at pictures remembering how vibrant and happy you used to be. Then going everyday and sitting with a vegetable. Now from my perspective I would hope that they would love me enough to put an end to my suffering. They know I would not want to live like that or have my children put through that pain. It was probably a very hard emotional decision for her husband to finally end it too.
We are not talking about being ILL here. We are talking brain dead, vegetable, drooling, shitting yourself, never finding your way back. Dr and specialists telling you there is no possible way you are ever going to get better or snap out of it.
My mom got Cancer and died a few yrs ago. My dad did EVERYTHING he possibly could for her for the 2 yrs she was really sick. He stood by her side and was there every waking moment. He watched her wasting away to nothing. Sometimes if I was visiting he would come down from her bedroom with tears in his eyes. He didn't want to show her his pain though. It was fucking heartbreaking!! He would sit with her by her bedside just talking for hours about things they did, or about the war whatever. He drove her to the hospital almost everyday in the weeks she had her treatments. He was 80 yrs old at that time. He told me after she died how he had to lift her in and out of the bathtub and all she was, was skin and bones. I can see the pain in his eyes even now, seeing things end for her like that. When she died I arranged the funeral because he was so devastated. I do remember him saying though, at least she doesn't have to suffer anymore. I would give anything to have her back but I am glad she just doesn't have to suffer anymore.
Although he was in tremendous pain with her loss because they were married for 60 yrs he was glad her pain was finally over. He also knew she didn't want to live like that. She would cry to him and say that she wished it was over because she didn't want us to remember her as a skeleton. Unfortunately that is an image that will never go from our minds.
So anyway.....my point of this was, this only went on for a couple (2-2.5yrs) and I saw the emotional stress and pain in my dad. I felt it myself but I didn't see her everyday like he did. At least he could finally put her to rest and try to carry on with his life. I can only imagine what this husband went through for 15 yrs. I give the man a medal. There are husbands and wives out there that would have bailed after a couple yrs. I don't think it should have dragged on that long even.
I don't really like the idea that the feeding tube was removed and it took her that long to die. It's hard to say what she felt during that time. Could she feel herself starving? I guess nobody can be 100% sure of that. I don't think she felt like I would if I didn't eat that long, because her brain wasn't functioning the same.
It would have been better if there had been another way to end her life quickly, but I guess they didn't have those options.
I really can't believe how selfish some ppl can be. Orleander question 's if we know what love is. I don't think she knows what it is. She wants her whole family to suffer
even after she is basically dead to the world. Why would she care. I guess she wouldn't be able to understand or even comprehend why her kids were standing there crying.
She wouldn't know that they had to sell their house and were financially hitting rock bottom to keep her alive, so she could lay there drooling and shitting her pants.
I have told Nietszchefan many times as a joke if I turn out like that just smother me with a pillow. In all seriousness though, I want him to make sure that I am not left like that. If there is no chance of me recovering I want the plugs pulled or whatever. I don't want everyone to suffer, seeing me like that. I want them to grieve, get over it and get on with their lives.
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oiram your right i should make a living will and give formal medical attorny to PB but i am quite doubtfull it will actually be needed. For starters we are defacto and nither of us has a previous marriage to overrule us. Secondly the system works much better here than in the US. My great uncle had 2 heart atacks last week and ended up in a coma. He was on life surport for 2 days before the doctors said to the family "even if he comes out of the coma he will be in a PVS". So they turned off the life surport.
Now my grandmother was aposlutly devistated that he was gone, he had been her brother in law for 50 years. This isnt even to mention his wife. No one had the compleate disrespect to say that there actions were wrong like orelander has here.
Orelander i hope you have a living will because if you dont its your husband who decides if you live or die and there isnt a thing you can do about it. If you were my wife in that situation and i couldnt put you out of it i would leave you
Now my grandmother was aposlutly devistated that he was gone, he had been her brother in law for 50 years. This isnt even to mention his wife. No one had the compleate disrespect to say that there actions were wrong like orelander has here.
Orelander i hope you have a living will because if you dont its your husband who decides if you live or die and there isnt a thing you can do about it. If you were my wife in that situation and i couldnt put you out of it i would leave you
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yes I did. If the only thing I need to live is feeding, keep me on the feeding tube.
My brothers only daughter was born with anencephaly. Believe me, we have been over and over this topic for quite some time. He knows how I feel and I know how he feels.
The question this brought up was one of burden. Considering we bought extended extra health care insurance just in case, we are aware.
My dad took 10 yrs to die of spinal cancer. No one considered it a burden to take care of him. We are not that shallow of a family.
And as far as college goes, my children already know they have to get a scholarship, a job, or a loan. Mommy and Daddy don't pay for it.