Murder?
- Thread starter Orleander
- Start date
Orleander:
As a vegetable? You wouldn't even be conscious of being alive, Orleander, you'd just be a moronic shell that drools and shits itself.
What a tremendous burden on your family.
As a vegetable? You wouldn't even be conscious of being alive, Orleander, you'd just be a moronic shell that drools and shits itself.
What a tremendous burden on your family.
Who knows what my brain would be doing while I was in a veg state. I wouldn't be the same as I am now, but maybe I would be in a dream state. Who knows?
My husband can divorce me and move on. My kids don't have to visit. All they have to do is help me live. That's all her parents wanted. Instead, she was starved to death.
And considering she was in a nursing home being cared for by strangers, I don't see how it was a burden to them. :shrug:
Because they probably woke up every morning with the knowledge that their mother is miserable and in a care facility, and that they are powerless to do anything to help her. I'm sure her death was a huge weight off their chests.
She doesn't see how that was a burden to them...:bugeye:
Umm for starters the word guilt comes to mind. If my mom or dad was in the hospital like that I would feel guilty if I did not go to see them. Even if they didn't know I was there, I would still know they were alive in a hospital and they were still my family. I am a big softie when it comes to stuff like that. I would probably end up standing there or sitting around in tears. I would probably get in my car afterwards and be crying most of the way home. Then I would be sad and depressed. Is it fair to put your family through that for 10, 20, 30, 40 yrs?
I certainly would never want to do that to my family. I would rather them remember me as the bubbly, joking, smart ass laughing ,grinning like a fool mom or wife.
I would not want them left with the image over many many yrs of me fading away drooling on myself not capable of even knowing what is going on around me. That is a burden I just would not put on them. As far as my husband is concerned as well. Some partners just wouldn't be able to move on and marry someone else. They also would feel guilty and feel the need to stick around for BETTER OR WORSE..... That isn't fair for them to throw their life away sitting bedside or talking them out for walks, bathing them whatever.
If you are gone, dead and buried then your family can actually really move on. Until then they really can't.
Umm for starters the word guilt comes to mind. If my mom or dad was in the hospital like that I would feel guilty if I did not go to see them. Even if they didn't know I was there, I would still know they were alive in a hospital and they were still my family. I am a big softie when it comes to stuff like that. I would probably end up standing there or sitting around in tears. I would probably get in my car afterwards and be crying most of the way home. Then I would be sad and depressed. Is it fair to put your family through that for 10, 20, 30, 40 yrs?
I certainly would never want to do that to my family. I would rather them remember me as the bubbly, joking, smart ass laughing ,grinning like a fool mom or wife.
I would not want them left with the image over many many yrs of me fading away drooling on myself not capable of even knowing what is going on around me. That is a burden I just would not put on them. As far as my husband is concerned as well. Some partners just wouldn't be able to move on and marry someone else. They also would feel guilty and feel the need to stick around for BETTER OR WORSE..... That isn't fair for them to throw their life away sitting bedside or talking them out for walks, bathing them whatever.
If you are gone, dead and buried then your family can actually really move on. Until then they really can't.
After reading the wiki link, its seems the people around her took medicine as far as it could take Terri before deciding to pull the tube.
I doubt Terry had dreams. It seems the portion of a persons brain required for imagination was destroyed. Sleep would be dreamless, as her waking condition was also dreamless. No concept of time, people, movement, future, past, self, nothing but a shell that could breath on its own. Its hard to say if her body even reacted to a lack of food or water.
Its hard for me to comprehend why someone would consider this kind of an existence a life. But I put more value into quality of life rather than quantity.
I was trying to find that as well. Who knows what she felt during the days up to her death. I am assuming here that she would not feel the exact way we would feel if we didn't eat for that many days, because her brain didn't function like ours does... :shrug:
So he says...... the recipient of her life insurance, correct ?
AND he had a girl friend at the time of this decision too..... Nice guy eh ?
Cazzo:
So you're suggesting that her husband is a liar? That's a serious allegation. Perhaps you ought to start by putting forward some evidence that her husband has collected on the life insurance.
You might also want to explain why he only moved to disconnect her from her feeding tube after consulting the very best medical specialists, flying her to California for experimental treatment as well as training to become a nurse so that he could care for her. In fact, he spent 8 years looking after her until petitioning to disconnect the feeding tube.
Finally, you might want to explain why the Supreme Court found that there was considerable evidence demonstrating that Terri had expressed her wishes not to live as a vegetable.
He had a girlfriend? OMFG NATIONAL DISASTER HANG THE BASTARD!!! How dare he move on?! Perhaps the diagnosis of 'persistent vegetative state' had something to do with his decision?
Fuck you assholes, insinuating that this man is a murderer. How despicable.
So you're suggesting that her husband is a liar? That's a serious allegation. Perhaps you ought to start by putting forward some evidence that her husband has collected on the life insurance.
You might also want to explain why he only moved to disconnect her from her feeding tube after consulting the very best medical specialists, flying her to California for experimental treatment as well as training to become a nurse so that he could care for her. In fact, he spent 8 years looking after her until petitioning to disconnect the feeding tube.
Finally, you might want to explain why the Supreme Court found that there was considerable evidence demonstrating that Terri had expressed her wishes not to live as a vegetable.
He had a girlfriend? OMFG NATIONAL DISASTER HANG THE BASTARD!!! How dare he move on?! Perhaps the diagnosis of 'persistent vegetative state' had something to do with his decision?
Fuck you assholes, insinuating that this man is a murderer. How despicable.
Orleander:
But that's not what Terri wanted. And that's what counts.
Highly unlikely. And even if you were in a 'dream state', you would be unable to interact with the real world. What sort of quality of life is that?
But that's not what Terri wanted. And that's what counts.
Highly unlikely. And even if you were in a 'dream state', you would be unable to interact with the real world. What sort of quality of life is that?
ok firstly under a strict biolegal definition NO it wasnt murder, it wasnt even CLOSE to murder. With holding medical intervention (which is what a feeding tube is) is NOT considered to be murder. In fact our whole palitive care system RELIES on that
Secondly the pt or in this case her medical next of kin (her husband) has the right and the responcability to make medical decisions.
Thirdly its not painful, what little of her conciousness was left was so doped up on morphine that normal responces like hunger wouldnt be felt by the brain even if there was the ability to feel those responces.
Lastly i would to point out that the fact that your family recive your death benifits is not automatic evidence of foul play. If PB was in a car acident and she would end up in a PVS i wouldnt hesitate to stop medical intervention and she dam well better do the same for me. I have told her this over and over again as she has to me.
Its not up to YOU orleander to judge his actions. Her idiot parents made sure the courts did that even though they had no right to
Secondly the pt or in this case her medical next of kin (her husband) has the right and the responcability to make medical decisions.
Thirdly its not painful, what little of her conciousness was left was so doped up on morphine that normal responces like hunger wouldnt be felt by the brain even if there was the ability to feel those responces.
Lastly i would to point out that the fact that your family recive your death benifits is not automatic evidence of foul play. If PB was in a car acident and she would end up in a PVS i wouldnt hesitate to stop medical intervention and she dam well better do the same for me. I have told her this over and over again as she has to me.
Its not up to YOU orleander to judge his actions. Her idiot parents made sure the courts did that even though they had no right to
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Do you know what the arguments are for keeping lethal morphine injection illegal ?
they are religious for the most part, though they also involve fears by the funtional disabled that euthanaisa would be forced on them if they didnt want it.
There was an act which alowed for volentry euthanasia in the NT but it was overturned by the federal parliment which has more power of the territories than the states.
This legislation however wouldnt be of use in this situation because this would require UNvolentry euthanaisa (not to be confused with involentry which is doing it directly against there will, ie murder).
i could go further into this but not tonight sorry. Im to tired to frame these kinds of complex ethical arguments for and against
There was an act which alowed for volentry euthanasia in the NT but it was overturned by the federal parliment which has more power of the territories than the states.
This legislation however wouldnt be of use in this situation because this would require UNvolentry euthanaisa (not to be confused with involentry which is doing it directly against there will, ie murder).
i could go further into this but not tonight sorry. Im to tired to frame these kinds of complex ethical arguments for and against
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Thanks, and no prob
Euthanasia is legal here in The Netherlands. But the patient has to ask for it him/herself either directly or by previous declaration.
There are also rules to it. The doctor must :
a) be convinced that the patients decision was voluntarily and well thought though.
b) be convinced that the patient experiences unbearable suffering without the prospect of ever getting better.
c) have comprehensibly briefed the patient about their situation and prospects.
d) have come to the conclusion, together with the patient, that under the circumstances euthanasia is the only reasonable solution.
e) have contacted at least one independent physician to meet and examine the patient. This doctor must produce a report that concludes points a) through d) have been met.
f) administered the euthanasia with the utmost medical care.
Theresa Marie Schindler "Terri" Schiavo (pronounced /ˈʃaɪvoʊ/ "SHY-vo"; December 3, 1963 – March 31, 2005) was an American woman who suffered brain damage and became dependent on a feeding tube. She collapsed in her home on February 25, 1990, and experienced respiratory and cardiac arrest, resulting in extensive brain damage, a diagnosis of persistent vegetative state (PVS) and 15 years of institutionalization. In 1998, Michael Schiavo, her husband and guardian, petitioned the Pinellas County Circuit Court to remove her feeding tube.
Robert and Mary Schindler, her parents, opposed this, arguing she was conscious. The court determined that Schiavo would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures.[1] This controversy lasted seven years and included involvement by politicians and advocacy groups, particularly those involved in pro-life or disability rights causes.[2] Before the local court's decision was carried out, on March 18, 2005, the governments of Florida and the United States had passed laws that sought, unsuccessfully, to prevent removal of Schiavo's feeding tube. These events resulted in extensive national and international media coverage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo
http://www.terrisfight.org/
Robert and Mary Schindler, her parents, opposed this, arguing she was conscious. The court determined that Schiavo would not wish to continue life-prolonging measures.[1] This controversy lasted seven years and included involvement by politicians and advocacy groups, particularly those involved in pro-life or disability rights causes.[2] Before the local court's decision was carried out, on March 18, 2005, the governments of Florida and the United States had passed laws that sought, unsuccessfully, to prevent removal of Schiavo's feeding tube. These events resulted in extensive national and international media coverage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terri_Schiavo
http://www.terrisfight.org/
If I end up in that state, KILL ME.
I have the letter DNR tattooed on my chest so they know what to do with me Do Not Resuscitate!
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
They will do it anyway.