mormonism & homosexuality

D

duendy

Registered Senior Member
Brutus, what is your feelings about homosexuality?
I ask this because one time i asked a mormon i had invited into my house, with his mormon missionary friend, what he would do if his friend was found out to be homosexual. He siad that he would have to immeditaely pack up and go home

i was VERy much offended by his reply. so i am asking you, as you seem to be THe main represeantative of Mormonism in these forums: What are your views, and mormon's views on homosexuality?
 
We are taught to love the sinner but hate the sin. We are also taught to treat everyone with dignity and respect. The LDS church condemns homosexuality and any sex outside of marriage. This includes Adultery, fornication, petting, masturbation, and viewing of pornography. All of these things bring us away from God. Sex is ordained of God only between a lawfully married man and a woman. Homosexuality is a sin, but with all sins it too can be forgiven through the gift of repentance given to us because of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

Some of our members suffer from same sex attraction. If they do not act upon it, then their standing in the church and with God is not affected. If they choose to act on it and engage in homosexual sex then they must either repent or be subject to church disciplinary action which can include expulsion from the church through excommunication. The local leaders of the church work with homosexual members and try to avoid excommunication, but if the person refuses to stop sinning then the Church has no choice. Once a member is excommunicated they can still come to church but they cannot participate in the meetings or take the sacrament. Once they have shown to be fully repentant and have forsaken their sin then they are welcomed back into the Church. They become spotless again before the Lord.
 
i SEEEEE. then, for all yours and your friendly mormons good manners, you are in fact my enemy!
 
duendy said:
i SEEEEE. then, for all yours and your friendly mormons good manners, you are in fact my enemy!
Click to expand...
So anyone who is not in total agreement with your lifestyle, world view, ethical standpoint etc is your enemy? That is what you are saying to Brutus. Were you a Mormon he would accept you in his church! Just because he thinks one aspect of your life makes you a sinner he becomes your enemy.
I now begin to understand why you come across so bitter.. You have a shitload of enemies.... by your own choice.
 
Ophiolite said:
So anyone who is not in total agreement with your lifestyle, world view, ethical standpoint etc is your enemy?

d__oh me god! listen to this dude. this is the same dude that if you get one of his friggin precious WORDS wrong he's reachin for his kaleshnakov!

That is what you are saying to Brutus.

d__and what has it got to do with you what i am saying to Brustus anyoldhow? are you Mormon? so what are you doing here?

Were you a Mormon he would accept you in his church!

d__errrrm, why are you speakin for Brutus.....?

Just because he thinks one aspect of your life makes you a sinner he becomes your enemy.

d__'one aspect of my life' you mean my VERy sexuality?? gettoutta here fool

I now begin to understand why you come across so bitter.. You have a shitload of enemies.... by your own choice.
Click to expand...

look in the mirror when you say that. a more bitter-sounding poster i have yet to MEEt. you have the hypocritical habit of accusing people with what YOU are actually doing.

now, do you mind, and please let Brutus answer the questions meant for him?
 
Ophiolite said:
So anyone who is not in total agreement with your lifestyle, world view, ethical standpoint etc is your enemy? That is what you are saying to Brutus. Were you a Mormon he would accept you in his church! Just because he thinks one aspect of your life makes you a sinner he becomes your enemy.
I now begin to understand why you come across so bitter.. You have a shitload of enemies.... by your own choice.
Click to expand...
Ophiolite, duendy did not call Brutus his enemy, he was inviting Brutus to call him his, Brutus's enemy. This is a valid debating technique, let him get on with it. Ultimately I suppose he hopes to show that homophobia is contrary to all rational considerations of love, compassion and humanity.

I for one have never understood why churches routinely deny to homosexuals either the consolations of a normal, loving relationship (including sex) or the consolation of the love of God. Apparently it's one or the other and never mind that gays simply can't help what they're attracted to any more than heterosexuals. Nope, they have a sin "built in" and if they indulge in something the rest of us can do without any clash of conscience, that's it - excommunication and damnation to hell. And the irony is, gays are amongst those most attracted to life within a church community!
 
"this is the same dude that if you get one of his friggin precious WORDS wrong he's reachin for his kaleshnakov!"
I don't apologise for favouring clarity over clamour, precision over precipitateness, rationality over ranting.
I don't consider you an enemy. As I have stated before I just think you are an asshole.

and what has it got to do with you what i am saying to Brustus anyoldhow? are you Mormon? so what are you doing here?
I mistook this for a public forum. How could I have been so foolish.

__errrrm, why are you speakin for Brutus.....?
Do you ever read anyone elses post for what they say? I am not speaking for Brutus, I am paraphrasing his words.

'one aspect of my life' you mean my VERy sexuality?? gettoutta here fool
Well, much as I enjoy sex, and am quite content to be a heterosexual male, it is only one aspect of my life. You do seem to have a lot of hangups.

"a more bitter-sounding poster i have yet to MEEt."
Strange. I'll have to watch that, if that's how I come across. I can't think of anything to be bitter about. I stopped typing for a few moments and racked my brains, but really I think I've been quite fortunate. I mean who or what is there to be bitter about?

Anyway, enjoy your fulminations against the patriarchy. Enjoy your selfrighteous belief that only you care about the downtrodden. Enjoy your fiftieth birthday. Enjoy the absence of my attempts at further communication.
 
Silas said:
Ophiolite, duendy did not call Brutus his enemy, he was inviting Brutus to call him his, Brutus's enemy. This is a valid debating technique, let him get on with it.
Click to expand...
Silas you may well be right. I have been trying, with various levels of control, to conduct a debate with duendy on a number of threads..Based on those I think he does actually see Brutus as an enemy. Anyway, as you see from my previous post I'm abandoning any further discussion with the man.
As to your point on church attitudes that seems understandable, given that the churches are established and therefore conservative. Also those of a fundamentalist outlook would find it difficult to ignore what they consider to be a basic law. I'm certainly not saying that is right, but it does not surprise me. I think many of the European churches are much more tolerant, but that's an outsiders perception.
 
duendy said:
but you have spelt out you are against my sexuality, which you believe is a sin.....?
Click to expand...


Duendy.

If you noticed I said the Church condemns all sex outside of marriage not just homosexuality. The reason why God has prescribed sex outside of marriage is because of all the damage it does to children, individuals, and society. Sex and immorality when misused only brings unhappiness and despair. Children are brought into the world without the benefit of a loving mother and father. Women are used and abused by men and they are left in poverty dependent on society for support. Disease and death are the result of an immoral lifestyle. It is out of love and compassion that God has given us these commandments. God only wants us to be happy and live a joyous life.

Ophiolite

I am pretty sure Duendy is female. Thank you for your posts.
 
Last edited:
Whoops! *blush* I may have made the same mistake! SORRY, duendy! (don't know many women who say "Bollocks", though.... just a thought.
 
Brutus1964 said:
I am pretty sure Duendy is female. Thank you for your posts.
Click to expand...
If I say 'that makes a lot of sense' I'm afraid I'll be attacked for 'maintaining the patriarchal subjugation of women through stereotyping'.
Either way our (duendy and me) mutual contempt is not likely to be changed.

Brutus, many religions, after a time, become more accomodating of secular views - less fundamentalist. The classic example might be the reformation. Is there any such movement on the fringes of the church of LDS?
 
Ophiolite said:
If I say 'that makes a lot of sense' I'm afraid I'll be attacked for 'maintaining the patriarchal subjugation of women through stereotyping'.
Either way our (duendy and me) mutual contempt is not likely to be changed.

Brutus, many religions, after a time, become more accomodating of secular views - less fundamentalist. The classic example might be the reformation. Is there any such movement on the fringes of the church of LDS?
Click to expand...

Ophiolite

Yes. In fact I have an uncle who is gay and he goes around speaking out against the Church for its stand on homosexuality. He is not a great example because he was 50, married with six children before he decided he was gay. He devastated his family and abandoned his wife. Great guy.

There is also a group called the "Sunstone Simposium" They are Mormon intellectuals and Mormon Liberals that get together and discuss how they think the Church should modernize.

I would not call the LDS church a fundamentalist church. In fact fundamentalist Mormons are the ones who live out in the desert and practice polygamy. They are not affiliated at all with the LDS church. Any practicing polygamists in the LDS church now are excommunicated.
 
Some of our members suffer from same sex attraction. If they do not act upon it, then their standing in the church and with God is not affected.
Click to expand...

Well, I might aswell be the one to point out that this goes against what jesus says.

Matthew 5:27 details jesus speech that the sin has been done when the thought crosses your mind. If you look at woman with lust, you have already sinned. The attractions of these friends of yours, are enough to be their downfall - and in the words of jesus, the best thing to do now is to yank their eyes out, chop their hands off.. yada yada yada.

Their "standing with god" is affected unless they chop their brain out for letting it have sinful thoughts and emotions, so sayeth jesus.

Do any religious people actually bother reading the bible?
 
Ophiolite said:
"this is the same dude that if you get one of his friggin precious WORDS wrong he's reachin for his kaleshnakov!"
I don't apologise for favouring clarity over clamour, precision over precipitateness, rationality over ranting.
I don't consider you an enemy. As I have stated before I just think you are an asshole.

D__CHARMING.

and what has it got to do with you what i am saying to Brustus anyoldhow? are you Mormon? so what are you doing here?
I mistook this for a public forum. How could I have been so foolish.

d__-'Brustus'? shit you cant even spell his name right. never mind speak for him!
and you are SURPRISED?

__errrrm, why are you speakin for Brutus.....?
Do you ever read anyone elses post for what they say? I am not speaking for Brutus, I am paraphrasing his words.

d__no, dude, what your're TRYING to do is wind me up. but you aren't skillfull enough, as clever as you THINK you ar with words.

'one aspect of my life' you mean my VERy sexuality?? gettoutta here fool
Well, much as I enjoy sex, and am quite content to be a heterosexual male, it is only one aspect of my life. You do seem to have a lot of hangups.

d__oh, pulEEEZE. since when have you had YOUr heterosexuality insulted? and like i said. i cant believe you. your not genuine and show hypocritical tendencies

"a more bitter-sounding poster i have yet to MEEt."
Strange. I'll have to watch that, if that's how I come across. I can't think of anything to be bitter about. I stopped typing for a few moments and racked my brains, but really I think I've been quite fortunate. I mean who or what is there to be bitter about?

d__ like i said. NOT genuine!


Anyway, enjoy your fulminations against the patriarchy. Enjoy your selfrighteous belief that only you care about the downtrodden. Enjoy your fiftieth birthday. Enjoy the absence of my attempts at further communication.
Click to expand...

and you believe i will lose sleep over that 'threat'? 'promise'?

i however, WILl challenge your views if i see fit. though please lets try and keep this silly tittle tattle down. it must be tedious for others. but then again, i dont follow YOU around trying to drive YOU banannas do i?
 
Brutus1964 said:
Duendy.

If you noticed I said the Church condemns all sex outside of marriage not just homosexuality. The reason why God has prescribed sex outside of marriage is because of all the damage it does to children, individuals, and society. Sex and immorality when misused only brings unhappiness and despair. Children are brought into the world without the benefit of a loving mother and father. Women are used and abused by men and they are left in poverty dependent on society for support. Disease and death are the result of an immoral lifestyle. It is out of love and compassion that God has given us these commandments. God only wants us to be happy and live a joyous life.

Ophiolite

I am pretty sure Duendy is female. Thank you for your posts.
Click to expand...

Brutus, you are dodging th issue again.
The whole subject of ACTUAL sexuality 'outside marriage' is a big one, and is completely tied to patriarchal oppressive dogma. this is where woman/wife and children become the male's property!
For get that for now. that deserves another thread

What Is being talked about is homosexuality. PRACTCING homosexuality. the very cocept of Gays marrying is faily recent in the modern world anyhow. so forget marriage concerning this subject
I am asking you, how can you not see youself as my enemy if you condemn my sexuality?
 
SnakeLord said:
Well, I might aswell be the one to point out that this goes against what jesus says.

Matthew 5:27 details jesus speech that the sin has been done when the thought crosses your mind. If you look at woman with lust, you have already sinned. The attractions of these friends of yours, are enough to be their downfall - and in the words of jesus, the best thing to do now is to yank their eyes out, chop their hands off.. yada yada yada.

Their "standing with god" is affected unless they chop their brain out for letting it have sinful thoughts and emotions, so sayeth jesus.

Do any religious people actually bother reading the bible?
Click to expand...

Yes lusting after a woman or someone of the same sex is a sin. But there are degrees of sin. If you took that scripture to it's extreme you would be justified in actually committing adultery because hey I thought about it. It's the same as actually doing it. So I might as well do it.

The reason Christ said not to lust after a woman is because that is the first step in actually doing it. If you try and keep your mind pure, you will not dwell on it. Also the act of lust is more than just an attraction. It is a all consuming desire to have sex with someone. If someone did this it would be a sin and worthy of repentance.
 
duendy said:
Brutus, you are dodging th issue again.
The whole subject of ACTUAL sexuality 'outside marriage' is a big one, and is completely tied to patriarchal oppressive dogma. this is where woman/wife and children become the male's property!
For get that for now. that deserves another thread

What Is being talked about is homosexuality. PRACTCING homosexuality. the very cocept of Gays marrying is faily recent in the modern world anyhow. so forget marriage concerning this subject
I am asking you, how can you not see youself as my enemy if you condemn my sexuality?
Click to expand...

Because I do not view you strictly based on your sexuality. I do not define myself soley based on mine. Sometimes you can't help whom you are attracted to. I am married and occasionally I will meet a girl at work or somewhere and I may be attracted to her. It is not lust, and I do not dwell on it, and I would never act on it. It is a natural response. This is the same for a gay person. They may be attracted to someone of the same sex but that does not mean they have to act on it. It is a choice to engage in homosexual sex or any sex type of sex for that matter.

We can disagree on something and not be "enemies". That is the problem with radical Islam is they feel anyone who disagrees with them is an infidel and worthy of death. Mormon’s consider homosexuality a sin, but we don’t stone people for it.
 
abd Brutus baby...dont foget me again...but concering your reply to snakelord.....what you espouse is THe evil. not what you denounce.

i hav a book i recommend everyone read concering an intelligent and ddeeper undersnding of Christianity. it is alan Watts' Myth and Ritual in Christianity
Alan ifghtly tells how the character 'Jesus' is taking the PISS out of the one's who will take the Law So seriously. he is teasing them. this makes sense concerning his constant harangue against hypocrites, and his chillin out with REAL people

so why is what you espouse evil. it GUILTs the individuals natrualness. we ALL LUST and have desires. it is natrual. you then guilt people sos they haven't even got freedom in their own fukin MINDs from thought police such as yourselves

what this does is this. these feelings are energy. have you ever put your finger in akettle? well you can guess what happens

add that to putting grown men in charge of children with that bullshite dogma = ? can you guess??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top