More gods ?

[cole grey]

Believers and unbelievers have been getting along for thousands of years. The problem is that religious believers are ignorant fools who believe in fictional holy books and use most of their time and energy by focusing on religion instead of on more important matters. Whether or not we are are spiritual beings of love doesn't matter because we are now living inside of physical bodies and we either don't know or else we can't remember anything about it. But, I do know is that I'm living inside of a crazy world right now. Plus, most of the bombings and killings in the Middle East are being done by radical Muslim insurgents not by ordinary unbelievers. I will say this much. Religious holy wars have a better chance of causing a real global armaggedon than any other problem facing the world right now except for maybe severe climate and weather changes.

That isn't what I asked.
I asked whether religion and spirituality have to be completely eradicated for people to love each other and have world peace.
The answer is obviously "no".
Destructive radicalism, yes, religion no.

The problem is that religious believers are ignorant fools who believe in fictional holy books and use most of their time and energy by focusing on religion instead of on more important matters.

This is a foolish statement. You would have to be ignorant to say that all believers are "fools". Also, this planet is not a hive, and it doesn't need a hive mind.

 

[cole grey]

MW -
why is it that I, a theist, don't think you need to be re-educated to conform to my belief system, yet you, a person who complains about human "segregation", think I should be re-educated. Strange.

 

[Mr Fide]

Okay, your point is fair enough. But, I am not trying to re-educate anyone. I am not a teacher. I am merely pointing out that religious holy books are proven to contain fictional characters like the biblical Noah as well as the biblical God. If you think that it is worthy to believe in fictional characters then go right ahead. But, I have proven that the Bible is a fictional book. The only reason that I haven't sent out millions of e-mails to people about it is because the sudden shock and outrage would probably cause more widespread hostility than it would peace. I will let people search for the truth themselves. Besides, I am only a man and I can't promise a better future to anyone. But, it is up to everyone to get involved to do something beneficial that will make a positive difference in their own communities. I think that this forum is a good place to let you all see my point of view no matter how distorted you may think it is. My only goal is to share true information with you, or what I consider to be true information, anyway. You are more than welcome to refute anything and everything on my web site. If you can prove that you are right then I will remove the wrong information immediately and that is a promise: http://www.angelfire.com/nm/amendm/arkmyth.html
There is a site map at the bottom of most of the pages.
It's on you now.

 

[cole grey]

The bible contains many stories about Jesus telling stories to make a point.
Perhaps the Noah's ark thing is completely fictitious, and it has been misunderstood as a history instead of another of the made up example stories the bible contains.
That doesn't prove anything about all religion, or all christianity, or all theism.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

MW -
why is it that I, a theist, don't think you need to be re-educated to conform to my belief system, yet you, a person who complains about human "segregation", think I should be re-educated. Strange.

*************
M*W: You claimed to be a liberal theist. I was not addressing this to you, specifically, as the one who needed re-educating. I was talking about die-hard religionists who can't see the forest for the trees. You took my reply too personally.

 

[cole grey]

I think radical fundamentalists are just as silly as you think they are, but your language and the language of the other athiests on this forum, seldom, if ever, and I'm being generous putting it that way, reflects that distinction.

 

[water]

I think radical fundamentalists are just as silly as you think they are, but your language and the language of the other athiests on this forum, seldom, if ever, and I'm being generous putting it that way, reflects that distinction.

Indeed. There is little or no difference between militant atheists and militant theists.

 

[(Q)]

The ironic and sad thing is that the atheists think the theist is the problem when I say 5 to 5 would be a good ratio and YOU say the ratio must be 0 to 10.

So, as a theist, you would rather keep mankind divided, which is what religion accomplishes?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Indeed. There is little or no difference between militant atheists and militant theists.

*************
M*W: Yes there is. Atheists follow truth. Theists follow lies.

 

[cole grey]

So, as a theist, you would rather keep mankind divided, which is what religion accomplishes?

Mankind divides along many lines (religious, ethnic, by region, by political philosophy are the main ones), if you don't see that I honestly don't know what to say. Honestly, tell me you don't know that that is true.
Does the color of skin keep a white/black marriage from being an undivided union? No, and neither should religion divide us.

Tell someone they must change to match your philosophy and you are the divider, not the philosophy.

 

[Mr Fide]

The bible contains many stories about Jesus telling stories to make a point.
Perhaps the Noah's ark thing is completely fictitious, and it has been misunderstood as a history instead of another of the made up example stories the bible contains.
That doesn't prove anything about all religion, or all christianity, or all theism.

There is no perhaps. There is no maybe. There is only the fact that the story of Noah's ark is a completely fictional story. In fact, it is only a copied version of the earlier Epic of Gilgamesh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utnapishtim - Jesus is not the resurrected christ. Jesus was only another man who believed that the fictional story of Noah's Ark was true. (All you have to do is enter the keyword "Noah" into an online Bible search engine to verify it.) When you understand the meaning of these verses: Matthew 24:36-38, Luke 3:23-38, and Luke 17:27 you will fully understand that the whole Bible is a completely fictional book that believers read over and over and over again. For goodness sake, when was the last time you read a good novel thousands of times? It's completely ridiculous for religious believers to have to memorize or to read fictional "holy" books thousands of times throughout their lives, which is what they are doing. If you want to be a theist then good for you. But, you will have to make it up as you go because there is no known god to help you. (We haven't even proven if our departed loved ones' spirits can help us.) All religions are full of fictional stories like the Epic of Gilgamesh. The only hope is to believe that we have been deceived for thousands of years and that the truth has been hidden from us. Maybe the truth is in a higher dimension of consciousness that we will enter when we leave the physical world. It will be great to find out that it's true, but until then we can only hope.

 

[Poincare's Stepchild]

There have been a lot of different speculation about where the Noah myth originated. One that has been popular in the last few years is the flooding of the Black Sea. To me, though, that one is too far back in time for just oral stories to have carried it to the writing of Genesis.

The one that makes the most sense to me appeared in Asimov's Guide to History. Seems there is evidence of a huge flood of the Tigris-Euphrates valley a few generations before the time of Abraham, who came from that region originally. As Asimov put it, to people that never traveled more than a few miles from home, the whole world would have seemed covered in water.

 

[cole grey]

When you understand the meaning of these verses: Matthew 24:36-38, Luke 3:23-38, and Luke 17:27 you will fully understand that the whole Bible is a completely fictional book that believers read over and over and over again.

So, if I am sitting around with my friends and I say, "you know what the end of the world will be like? It will be like the boy who cried wolf. Everybody will keep saying the terrorists will destroy everything, until we get so fed up with the impending attack that sets off the nukes (which never happens) that we just forget it and go about our business (shopping perhaps, like Bush suggested), then the terrorists will attack-
does that mean I believe there was a boy who cried wolf, and got eaten by a wolf? Let's see some proof of what Jesus meant.

When you attach your meaning to the book and call it the only possible truth - this is not ok.

 

[cole grey]

back to the cause of division -

Ireland - is the religious division or the political division more the cause?
Are they fighting about who believes in the infallability of the pope????

 

[Mr Fide]

back to the cause of division -

Ireland - is the religious division or the political division more the cause?
Are they fighting about who believes in the infallability of the pope????

You are asking some tough hypothetical questions that noone can correctly answer. If you really wanted to help people learn something then don't give them questions that they can't answer. Give them questions that they can answer. My only honest answer to your questions is "I really don't know. Please give me the correct answer." If there is no correct answer to the question then it won't help me learn anything. By collecting the answers of your survey you will only get a variety of different opinions that will only mean something to you.

Truly, Bona.

 

[Mr Fide]

There have been a lot of different speculation about where the Noah myth originated. One that has been popular in the last few years is the flooding of the Black Sea. To me, though, that one is too far back in time for just oral stories to have carried it to the writing of Genesis.

The one that makes the most sense to me appeared in Asimov's Guide to History. Seems there is evidence of a huge flood of the Tigris-Euphrates valley a few generations before the time of Abraham, who came from that region originally. As Asimov put it, to people that never traveled more than a few miles from home, the whole world would have seemed covered in water.

Yes, Dr. Isaac Asimov was a brilliant writer who had many thought-provoking ideas. But, an ancient civilization did live on the ground floor of the Black Sea before the strait eroded and the surrounding areas were flooded to become the Black Sea : http://archives.cnn.com/2000/NATURE/09/13/great.flood.finds.ap/index.html

So, at least that event was proven to have happened.

Truly, Bona.

 

[Mr Fide]

Correction, since it's only speculation then that event looks like it could have happened that way.

 

[cole grey]

Give them questions that they can answer. My only honest answer to your questions is "I really don't know. Please give me the correct answer."

The political. Bloody revolution/civil war doesn't occur over theological differences, it relates to resources and survival.
When religion is used to impact the political structure, it can easily become violent because it has enetered that arena.

 

[(Q)]

Mankind divides along many lines (religious, ethnic, by region, by political philosophy are the main ones), if you don't see that I honestly don't know what to say. Honestly, tell me you don't know that that is true.
Does the color of skin keep a white/black marriage from being an undivided union? No, and neither should religion divide us.

Tell someone they must change to match your philosophy and you are the divider, not the philosophy.

I'm not arguing there are other divisions of mankind. But if religion were abondoned and everyone worked towards common goals, like the benefit of mankind, for example, those other divisions might also dissapear.

I for one though, cannot see a division more volatile than that brought on by religion.

A black may marry a white, but if the black were Muslim and the white a Christian, do you actually think that would happen?

No ones asking anyone to change their philosophy to match anyone elses, its simply a matter of giving up believing in that which has never been shown to exist.

 

[cole grey]

A black may marry a white, but if the black were Muslim and the white a Christian, do you actually think that would happen?

it happens among tolerant people.

No ones asking anyone to change their philosophy to match anyone elses, its simply a matter of giving up believing in that which has never been shown to exist.

I'll have to give up most everything, religion is just one small piece of the masses of things that have not been proven to exist. Most, if not all important concepts, are inconclusive because they are so complex.
Example - the idea that humans are any more responsible than animals for their behavior - first you would have to define the terms, "human" and "animal", and the boundary between these terms is never agreed upon.