Morality Question of the Day - 12/01/09

[Orleander]

...The murder rate will probably be unchanged or even up.

Yeah, has a president ever had an affect on a cities murder rate?

Anyways, like MZ said, its not country specific. But if we were to make it country specific, could we make it about Canada?

 

[CutsieMarie89]

Do you believe the black police are racist against other blacks?

Oh hell yes. Other blacks are even worse than white people nowadays.

 

[S.A.M.]

I seriously doubt that racism could account for much of the 700 percent difference in murder rates

Of course it could. Not simply because of the justice system, but also the social system. The way it works, with so many black men being thrown into prison for long periods [which means their sons grow up without male role models] and racism in employment [look at black representation in Congress, as compared to their population density] as well as housing and schooling [the system is built to encourage race based ghettos and discourage "mixing"], it would hardly be surprising that blacks are not only the highest in drug related murders but also one of the poorest, unhealthiest and least upwardly mobile sector of the population

Since the Obama effect led to changes in test scores, I wondered if it led to a change in crime rate.

 

[Thoreau]

Of course it could. Not simply because of the justice system, but also the social system. The way it works, with so many black men being thrown into prison for long periods [which means their sons grow up without male role models] and racism in employment [look at black representation in Congress, as compared to their population density] as well as housing and schooling [the system is built to encourage race based ghettos and discourage "mixing"], it would hardly be surprising that blacks are not only the highest in drug related murders but also one of the poorest, unhealthiest and least upwardly mobile sector of the population

Since the Obama effect led to changes in test scores, I wondered if it led to a change in crime rate.

I'm sorry, SAM, but that is typical liberal BS thinking. Go ahead and blame the government and employers on prison terms, lack of employment, drug use, etc.

We all have a choice, regardless of race. You can be an upstanding citizen and decide to be professional, drug free, and crime free no matter what race you are. First off, why are so many "black men" in prison in the first place? Because they committed crime. I don't care what race you are, if you disobey the law, you deserve prison time.

And unless you live under a rock, you are taught from a VERY early age the difference between right and wrong in the eyes of the law. If you choose to do wrong, regardless of race, culture, environment, etc, then that is your choice and you deserve the consequences. This whole idea that the government and employers are somehow prejudice against black people, or any race for that matter is a load of crap. At one point, yes, they were, but not in this day in age, and not in the majority of America.

There are no scapegoats for the peoples personal actions.

 

[S.A.M.]

Thats the excuse that Brahmins make for segregating Dalits as well. As is the case for white supremacists it means shit.

Ask the homosexuals in Saudi Arabia about it. Or even in Alabama. Being an unclean animal in a society which considers you less than human can have far reaching consequences on how you turn out.

 

[James R]

MZ3Boy84:

I'm sorry, SAM, but that is typical liberal BS thinking. Go ahead and blame the government and employers on prison terms, lack of employment, drug use, etc.

I don't think you understood the point SAM was making.

First off, why are so many "black men" in prison in the first place? Because they committed crime. I don't care what race you are, if you disobey the law, you deserve prison time.

Most prisoners in the US are in for relatively minor drug offences (possibly repeat offenses). The difference between the black and white population in prison is that white people are far less likely to be given a prison term as punishment. Why do you think that is?

This whole idea that the government and employers are somehow prejudice against black people, or any race for that matter is a load of crap.

You haven't looked into the matter at all, have you? You're just assuming.

 

[S.A.M.]

And unless you live under a rock, you are taught from a VERY early age the difference between right and wrong in the eyes of the law. If you choose to do wrong, regardless of race, culture, environment, etc, then that is your choice and you deserve the consequences

Let me show you what is wrong with this argument. In some countries [including India, until recently], homsexuality is an abnormality, a crime punished by the authorities. Homsexuals are punished for practising it inspite of the law, culture, environment etc. There are instances where they have been put to death for anal intercourse

Do they deserve the consequences?

Just because the overwhelming majority of blacks are in prison due to the laws against drugs does not mean that they made the wrong choices, it could also mean their social system sucks.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

I'm sorry, SAM, but that is typical liberal BS thinking. Go ahead and blame the government and employers on prison terms, lack of employment, drug use, etc.

We all have a choice, regardless of race. You can be an upstanding citizen and decide to be professional, drug free, and crime free no matter what race you are. First off, why are so many "black men" in prison in the first place? Because they committed crime. I don't care what race you are, if you disobey the law, you deserve prison time.

And unless you live under a rock, you are taught from a VERY early age the difference between right and wrong in the eyes of the law. If you choose to do wrong, regardless of race, culture, environment, etc, then that is your choice and you deserve the consequences. This whole idea that the government and employers are somehow prejudice against black people, or any race for that matter is a load of crap. At one point, yes, they were, but not in this day in age, and not in the majority of America.

There are no scapegoats for the peoples personal actions.

I agree. The fact is that there are still many blck americans who do not take responsibility for their lives and their communities. The truth is that blacks mostly commit crimes against their own people. Its sad but true. There are still those who work hard, go to school, live in good safe communities and succeed in society but we don't hear about them so often. I would ask why didn't racism stop those who succeed? :shrug:

 

[Thoreau]

I agree. The fact is that there are still many blck americans who do not take responsibility for their lives and their communities. The truth is that blacks mostly commit crimes against their own people. Its sad but true. There are still those who work hard, go to school, live in good safe communities and succeed in society but we don't hear about them so often. I would ask why didn't racism stop those who succeed? :shrug:

Exactly. If a government or social bias against US blacks was such an issue and factor, how does it explain the success of many black people? Were they just lucky? Did they know how to "play the game" and get around the 'white man'? I doubt it. They are successful just like anyone else of any other race can be, because they worked toward it.

And SAM, I'm not talking about gays in India. I know very little of their politics and cultures, and I've never experienced it first hand. Therefore I have no room to speak on that subject because then I would just be making assumptions, despite how much I think I may know from books or other sources. The simple fact is that I have no personal experience with it and thus dare not to claim an opinion on it. But I have lived in America all of my life and have directly seen how American cultures and government function throughout the nation and abroad. And again, this idea that somehow the government is biased and thus the eventual scapegoat for peoples actions is rediculous. It's a way of thinking that unfortunately still carries over to today in the minds of the black community from the days of slavery and segregation as an excuse for not taking personal responsibility.

 

[S.A.M.]

Okay lets try it your way:

How easy is it for a black man to get a home in an upscale community?

If he cannot get one, how easy is it for him to enroll his children in an upscale school?

If he cannot, how hard is it to find a good school with the same resources in a black neighborhood?

Lets see how segregation works for the blacks.

 

[Thoreau]

Okay lets try it your way:

1) How easy is it for a black man to get a home in an upscale community?

2) If he cannot get one, how easy is it for him to enroll his children in an upscale school?

3) If he cannot, how hard is it to find a good school with the same resources in a black neighborhood?

Lets see how segregation works for the blacks.

1) As easy or difficult as it is for anyone else. Work hard. Earn a respectable living.

2) Again, as easy or difficult as it is for any other race.

3) Who says they have to live in a black neighborhood in the first place? There are other affordable neighborhoods with descent schools.

 

[Orleander]

And for the love of god, don't speak eubonics. No one gets anywhere speaking that way.

 

[S.A.M.]

Okay I am just going to address the first point, to show how this works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_Segregation

And if you cannot wade through that here is one on rentals
http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/article.php?id=357

 

[Thoreau]

I still don't get your logic. The stats speak for themselves. Why is everyone so afraid of admitting that blacks are more violent whites??? Take a look at this....

SAFEST CITIES IN AMERICA.

CITY WHITES BLACKS
Amherst, NY 88.40% 3.90%
Brick Township, NJ 95.80% 0.99%
Mission Viejo, CA 76.00% 1.10%
Simi Valley, CA 72.70% 1.30%
Cary, NC 79.70% 6.10%
Thousand Oaks, CA 77.70% 1.10%
Colonie, NY 90.70% 3.50%
Clarkstown, NY 76.00% 7.90%
Orem, UT 86.70% 0.00%
Sunnyvale, CA 46.50% 2.20%
Farmington Hills, MI 81.90% 6.90%
Troy, MI 81.30% 2.10%
Irvine, CA 57.00% 1.40%
Lake Forest, CA 66.70% 1.80%
Sterling Heights, MI 89.80% 1.30%
Canton Township, MI 82.30% 4.50%
Roswell, GA 75.50% 8.50%
Parma, OH 94.70% 1.10%
Provo, UT 84.00% 0.00%
Huntington Beach, CA 71.90% 0.80%



MOST DANGEROUS CITIES IN AMERICA

Most Dangerous Cities White Pop. Black Pop.

Detroit, MI 10.50% 81.60%
St Louis, MO 42.90% 51.20%
Atlanta, GA 31.30% 61.40%
Camden, NJ 7.10% 53.30%
Washington D.C. 27.80% 60.00%
Compton, CA 1.0% 40.3%
Oakland, CA 23.5% 35.7%
Baltimore, MD 31.0% 64.3%
Flint, MI 40.0% 53.3%
Gary, IN 10.1% 84.0%
Memphis, TN 33.3% 61.4%
North Charleston, SC 43.2% 49.4%
New Orleans, LA 26.6% 63.7%
Richmond, VA 37.7% 57.2%
Trenton, NJ 24.6% 52.1%
Jackson, MS 27.5% 70.6%
Birmingham, AL 23.5% 73.5%
Richmond, CA 21.2% 36.1%
Cleveland, OH 38.8% 51.0%
Philedelphia, PA 42.5% 43.2%

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to format this. But nevertheless, this was based on average numbers of crimes per 100,000. The % are the population of white and blacks in that city. You see that the safest cities are those which are majority white. And most dangerous are those which are majority black.

I read both links and I think that though "white privelage" does exist, it is not nearly as drastic to the extent that your links pose them to be. And furthermore, it doesn't give reason or excuse to why blacks are more violent, poor, or uneducated. Because as previously stated, they can succeed just as anyone else can. There have been many many wealthy, successful, educated, and intelligent black people. And by your critical race theory, such outcomes would be improbable.

 

[Thoreau]

look at black representation in Congress, as compared to their population density

Furthermore, reps in Congress are not in place to represent members of specific races. They are in place to represent the American public as a whole, regardless of race.

 

[S.A.M.]

I still don't get your logic. The stats speak for themselves. Why is everyone so afraid of admitting that blacks are more violent whites??? Take a look at this....

Thats not what the article was about.

Read my question carefully:

1) How easy is it for a black man to get a home in an upscale community?

Whats your response here after reading about redlining, disinvestment, devalorization, reclamation, relocation and gentrification? Have you seen the effects of these practices on public services and upward mobility?

What do you think of this?

Audits performed by the US Department of Housing and Urban Development and a later Housing Development Study suggest that if realtors have a chance to discriminate, they usually do.[7] These studies analyzed the amount of cases where whites were given more information about available units or financing options or shown extra units in proportion to African Americans. The results showed that whites were systematically favored for both rental and sales units throughout metropolitan areas in the United States. Racial steering was also taken into account during these audits, and it was shown through the results that African Americans were shown homes in areas that had more minorities, lower home values, or lower median incomes that the homes that were shown to European Americans, even if their economic position was the same. It was shown that about one in every three encounters, African Americans were systematically steered to these non-European American neighborhoods.[7]

This segregation is not self-imposed. That is, African Americans do not prefer to live in neighborhoods that are overwhelmingly Black.[7] Survey evidence from a Detroit Area Survey from 1976 shows that African Americans strongly favor the desegregation of the United States, with the overall ideal neighborhood being 50% black and 50% white. Whites, on the other hand, favor neighborhood composition that is dominated by whites. In the same survey, about one-quarter of the whites surveyed said they would feel uncomfortable if their neighborhood exceeded 8% Black. Once the neighborhood reached 21% Black, almost half of the whites surveyed said they would feel uncomfortable

 

[Thoreau]

Thats not what the article was about.

Read my question carefully:

1) How easy is it for a black man to get a home in an upscale community?

Whats your response here after reading about redlining, disinvestment, devalorization, reclamation, relocation and gentrification? Have you seen the effects of these practices on public services and upward mobility?

What do you think of this?

Yes, I read that, and I responded. I don't think it is as to the extent as said. 1) Of course blacks in Detroit would favor a mixed neighborhood. They are in the most dangerous city. They aren't ignorant. I'm sure they realize that white neighborhoods are safer and would like to be in a safer neighborhood without being completely (racially) alone, hence the preferred 50-50. And with whites, who could blame them? When you see a city which is 81% black and also the most dangerous city in America, do you really want to be a part of that? Do you want your kids to be raised in such a neighborhood? 2) The idea of racial steering has been outlawed with the Fair Housing Act. It doesn't apply any longer IMO.

 

[S.A.M.]

I don't think it is as to the extend as said. 1) Of course blacks in Detroit would favor a mixed neighborhood. They are in the most dangerous city. They aren't ignorant. I'm sure they realize that white neighborhoods are safer

Thank you for making my point.

Tomorrow if I still feel like educating a racist, we'll explore the other points.

 

[Thoreau]

Thank you for making my point.

Tomorrow if I still feel like educating a racist, we'll explore the other points.

I'm not saying all blacks are bad or all blacks commit crime. I'm saying that if 81% of Detroit is black, even if 60% of them would want a more white neighborhood (and thus a safer one), that would be almost 1/2 of the population of Detroit. But that leaves the other 40% of blacks (hypothetically) responsible for the cities condition. And who is to say that they can't move??? No one is tying them down to that location. Work hard, get a job in a better area, and move there. I don't understand the difficulty in that.

 

[Gustav]

"Love, Light and Laughter"

/snigger