Mom, I'm an athiest...

Ender- it might be worth reminding your parents (or it might make thyings worse, I don't know them) about the story of the prodical son.
God loves even those who go astray- he seems to like them more, the good son who stayed at home didn't get a party!

So as far as I can tell, there is nothing bad in straying from the religion; if you come back, you should get a grand reception. The only danger would be if your family then makes it their mission to "re-convert" you. you have to make the call to believe in God again yourself - them bugging insessantly will not get you to believe, but they may think that it will.



In general, I don't believe in God, and I don't not believe in God. He may be out there, he may not. Until I know for sure, I'll do my best to balance things such that I get to enjoy this wonderful oppurtunity to be alive and also such that I don't make those around me miserable by trying to please someone I don't know is watching.

If it turns out that God exsists, I certainly hope that life of helping people is good enough to get into heaven. The bible seems to suggest that I need to cry out my love for god, which I don't do. But heaven is just a place "outside the precense of God", and not a firely Devil place, according to the bible, so I don't really think it would be horrible. and if it is, then I made a mistake. Oh, well.

God has us here to be his perfect creation, imbued with the chance to screw up. Why would he punish us eternally for failing the test? All that means is we weren't good enough to pass the test, not that we were horrible people. If I am made in God's image, I can only asusme that God is a logical being, so my failure, logically shouldn't mean that I need to suffer forever under satan's rule.

So, assuming for minute that God exsists, he created humans, and he is logical, why would me dying before I decide to believe in him damn me to hell?
If you have a child, and he refuses to listen to you about the dangers of traffic, and dies, you may be angry at him. However, given the chance, would you damn his soul to hell for not listening to you? If you truely love, I would say, no, you would forgive his mistakes, and allow him into heaven, whether or not he learned his lesson. why? because you love him, and according to modern christianity, there is no reincarnation, so there's no longer a lesson to be learned. He doesn't need to know the dangers of traffic while living for all eternity in heaven.

So I will be my agnostic self, and continue seeing no reason or requirement for the exsistance of God. If my actions to try and help every living thing on this planet do not allow me to get into heaven, then I see no reason to want to get into heaven. If such petty pride on the part of God requires that you worship him to see his face when you die, then I have no desire to meet him. In sucha a case, he would be more petty than most people on this planet. And if he exsists, I seriously doubt he is *that* self-involved.


edit:fixed the spelling errors that I could find
 
Last edited:
"You're right. I haven't proven that these things don't exist, nor can I. However, I have explained why I don't believe that they do exist."
--Your 'reason' seems less scientific than metaphysical.

"I never said "therefore it doesn't exist". I cannot state for certain that something does not exist. I am simply justifying my disbelief in such things. My insertion of the word "probably" is indicative of my belief, or disbelief in this case. When one says that unicorns probably don't exist, it doesn't change whether they do exist or not. The 'probably' refers to the asserting person's level of certainty. We are talking about belief, not reality. "
--Yes, but there is a reason you would deduce the level of certainty--you seem to manage your level of certainty by metaphysical means, as opposed to objective.

--There is an objective reason why people dismiss the existance of unicorns as probable--simply because it came from historical writing by humans which are merely unsupportable stories. We render them fairytales.

"Both actually. I don't claim to know whether a deity or an afterlife exists; this makes me an agnostic. I don't believe that a deity (or an afterlife) exists; this makes me an atheist. Neither one is superior. They are simply words that deal with different realms of thought: knowledge and belief."
--This substantiates that the former (agnosticism) is superior to atheism because the latter is philisophical, the former is well founded in logic and reasoning as far as we have discussed.

"Agnosticism and atheism most often overlap each other. Most agnostics are also atheists in that they lack a positive belief in God. Most atheists are also agnostics in that they don't claim to know for certain that God does not exist. "
--Yup, this is fine as long as the proponent of the belief realizes that atheism is addressed from a lack of knowledge while agnosticism is addressed by knowledge, logic, and reasoning.

Conclusion:
--Atheism is the belief in the doctrine that there is NO God. This is based on an inference from things unknown.

--Agnosticism is the belief or stance in which one realizes that they cannot know for certainty whether there is a God or not. This is based on an inference from things known.

Cheers,
-Chris Grose
Geoscience Editor
Organization for Young Scientists Inquiry
http://www.oysi.promisoft.net
 
Take a trip back to mythology....we all laugh if someone thinks all of that is true. But the people then were so sure of it.....kind of like now. In hundreds of years, will the future people be doing the same to todays religons?

Life is very unexplainable. Its a pointless rollercoaster that, in the end, brings death. I dont see the need to live.


If this book of fabricated stories breaks me and my girlfriend(the only reason I even live anymore) apart, I will snap upon it. I dont mean to sound so sure....Im sorry for all who do believe....but the human race is pathetic. All they ever want is hope and happy endings. Make your own beliefs people. Do what you think is right. Your life is yours....after its over.....its...over.

People=****
 
Originally posted by TrueCreation
Conclusion:
Atheism is the belief in the doctrine that there is NO God. This is based on an inference from things unknown.
Click to expand...
As theism is belief in the existence of God(s), atheism is simply the lack of belief in God(s). This is generally called the weak atheistic position but it is also the universal atheistic position. Atheism also includes the strong position; those who believe that God does not exist. This, however, is not a universal Atheist position and most Atheists see this as an assumptive and unsupported position, left unqualified.

Therefore, unless specifying the strong position, you are necessarily addressing the universal position which is simply a lack of belief in God(s). As such, the logic is quite straightforward. There is no objective evidence that warrants such a belief. Thus your statement regarding unicorns; "people dismiss the existance of unicorns as probable--simply because it came from historical writing by humans which are merely unsupportable stories" is equally applicable to stories of God(s).

This substantiates that the former (agnosticism) is superior to atheism because the latter is philisophical, the former is well founded in logic and reasoning as far as we have discussed.
Click to expand...
This statement makes no sense, logic is a philosophical field. As to making evaluative statements; you've yet to prove your conclusion, much less establish a basis of worth.

~Raithere
 
If i lived with a family that made me feel bad like that,id buy a chainsaw and chop them up.

Seriously,you dont need help,youre free thinking capable of your own decisions,if they dont like it tell em to fuck off and die.

Its that simple.

Then theyll start thinking your a child of satan,in this situation heres what you do:

Buy mushy peas,pea soup wahtever as long as its green,get corpse makeup,now one night get up before everyone else,put on the corpse make up,when awoken spit out the green stuff and go "arrrgghhhh,fuking bitch,argghhhhh i love satan,hail satan bitch"
 
Originally posted by TrueCreation
--Atheism is the belief in the doctrine that there is NO God.
Click to expand...
I just have to point out that this is one of the biggest misconceptions about atheism. As Raithere said, atheism is simply disbelief in the existence of God. People may not have belief in the existence of God because they never thought about that concept or because they have thought about it and decided for themselves that it is improbable. We are all born atheists.
 
The whole deal about an Afterlife is very funny to me, and when people confront be about it i always ask them a question:

What was life like befor you were born? I don't mean the history, but for you personally, what do you remember from before you were born.

Then normally answer that they can't obviously, then I say that that is what life will be like after you die.


TrueCreaton:

--There is an objective reason why people dismiss the existance of unicorns as probable--simply because it came from historical writing by humans which are merely unsupportable stories. We render them fairytales.

Let me see here the bible was written by:
Moses --- human
Paul -- human
Mathew -- human
John -- human
luke -- human
.. and many other all human

merely unsupportable stories:
Noah's ark
Parting of the red Sea
Adam and Eve
Johna and the whale
Tower of Bable
Virgin birth
Resurection
assension


So accorinding to your logic we should regard these as fairytale?
This is great that means I'm ahead of the curve!
 
merely unsupportable stories:
Noah's ark
Parting of the red Sea
Adam and Eve
Johna and the whale
Tower of Bable
Virgin birth
Resurection
assension
Click to expand...

Actually, I've hear that there is some scientific support coming in for a less glorified version of Noah's Ark, and also the fact that it may not have been the red sea which was crossed during exodux, but rather the dead sea. A small portion of it gives way to land for a very short period of time each year.

To me, the stories of Adam and Eve, Jonah and the Whale, and the Tower of Babel are just metaphors of some kind. And I don't believe in Jesus so I won't comment on the last ones. He was a man just like anyone else. And many people have survived more gruesome punishments than a crucifiction.


As for being honest with your parents - when will you ever learn? Honesty never pays off with parents because they're the least objective of anyone towards their 'ownership' of you. Parents absolutely believe that they know what's best for you. And the fact is they don't. -Unless you conform. That's something I highly reccommend not doing. Just be as dirty and controlling over yourself as they are to you.

Gotta tell you,though, you made a really bad decision to tell 'em now buddy. It's like banging your head up against a wall. But hopefully you'll be able to move out on your own soon. They'll NEVER accept you for the rest of your life. THis is natural rejection into the wild, just like any other species. Even though they may still love you as their son. All I can say is get over it. Move on. I think it's great that you've come to terms with your own beliefs, and I'm not against you. The fact is, your childhood relationship with them has come to an end, and by taking you seriously, they've accepted you as an adult.

-congrats :cool:
 
Personally, I'm waiting until I move out before I tell my dad I'm an atheist. If I told him now, he would make my home an unpleasant place for me to live. It's really bugging me too because I am a very expressive person. Oh well, only about six more months to go.
 
Yup, that's the way to be. It's a sad truth that you can't be honest with your own parents without having them react negatively all of the time. Nothing but bitchin' in my house. Whenever I try to reveal the truth or real reasons for my actions to my parents, they use it as an opportunity to throw shit at me. No matter how much they deny that's what they do, it's what they do. So I can't be honest with them. And they come out and blame me? nuh-uh, parents have always been the perpetrators of bad behaviour in their kids.

The only reason they encourage honesty is so that they can maintain greater control over you. You made a really shitty decision Ender. If it helps, tell your parents that they're responsible for your not believing because 'no God would have ever put you in a position like this'.

(NOTE: I believe in God, myself. But I don't think he gives a damn what we do here on Earth.)
 
Originally posted by Elbaz
So I can't be honest with them.
Click to expand...
Once I move out, I plan on being very honest about everything with them. This will lead to some pretty negative situations, but I will have my own home/sanctuary to come back to.

The only reason they encourage honesty is so that they can maintain greater control over you.
Click to expand...
Oh, that's an interesting point! I'll have to make sure that is not the reason I will encourage honesty in my children.

You made a really shitty decision Ender.
Click to expand...
The decision is made. Ender felt he needed to get it off his chest, and I respect that. Now he has to make the best of the situation, but at least he can feel free about his beliefs. Perhaps the road to healing with his family can begin sooner this way.
 
You can always be honest when you move out, but when you're dependant, you should keep secretively. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with staying home, but we should get over this age 25 mentality here. I want out as soon as I can. I think we all agree that it's better that way. Most times...



Oh, that's an interesting point! I'll have to make sure that is not the reason I will encourage honesty in my children.
Click to expand...

Can't stop it unless you adopt different behaviours. Cognitive dissonance will always rule over your intentions. Parents become parents through practical evolutionary standards, and drive you
out of the home when the time is right. I wouldn't worry though. We all say that we'll be better parents than ours were. hehe

The decision is made. Ender felt he needed to get it off his chest, and I respect that. Now he has to make the best of the situation, but at least he can feel free about his beliefs. Perhaps the road to healing with his family can begin sooner this way.
Click to expand...

Yup, no arguing that. I respect his decision too, even though he made the wrong one. It's time to make the best of his situation and move on. One thing that I will argue is this 'healing' thing, because his parents probably wont get over it. Ever. Just my personal opinion. They may resume communication (as in they probably will,) but things will never be the same.
 
Originally posted by Elbaz
You can always be honest when you move out, but when you're dependant, you should keep secretively.
Click to expand...
In your opinion. Not everyone may share that opinion though.

Can't stop it unless you adopt different behaviours. Cognitive dissonance will always rule over your intentions. Parents become parents through practical evolutionary standards, and drive you out of the home when the time is right. I wouldn't worry though. We all say that we'll be better parents than ours were. hehe
Click to expand...
I know who I am and I know that I am not going to be like my parents in a lot of respects.

I respect his decision too, even though he made the wrong one.
Click to expand...
Once again, in your opinion.
 
In your opinion. Not everyone may share that opinion though.
Click to expand...

I don't control the facts of life. And I've learned these things from years of mistakes and observations. It happens everyone. Everywhere. If you spill yourself around your parents you're just giving them ammo and setting yourself up.

But if you disagree..we'll have to agree to disagree. But remember, I'm right ;) LOL

I know who I am and I know that I am not going to be like my parents in a lot of respects.
Click to expand...

So says everyone. But when you get older and have kids, you just have to wait until they get old enough to hold a mirror up to you. And then - voila! You see what you've become, even though you did every possible thing to avoid it. It's a universal thing.

Once again, in your opinion
Click to expand...

Okay, alright Dude :rolleyes: "In my opinion" :cool:
 
Originally posted by Elbaz
So says everyone. But when you get older and have kids, you just have to wait until they get old enough to hold a mirror up to you. And then - voila! You see what you've become, even though you did every possible thing to avoid it. It's a universal thing.
Click to expand...
I guess we'll just see then! ;)
 
Originally posted by Ender
The whole deal about an Afterlife is very funny to me, and when people confront be about it i always ask them a question:

What was life like befor you were born? I don't mean the history, but for you personally, what do you remember from before you were born.

Then normally answer that they can't obviously, then I say that that is what life will be like after you die.
Click to expand...
I really like that! I'll have to use that in future conversations with people about this issue!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top