Minor Observation

[Q]...an alias?

After reading all the 'crap' written down by you [Q], I must come to the conclusion that you are posting under an alias, just to mess up with the members.:(

What you say here in this thread has nothing to do with your 'love' for Science.

I agree with Bebelina, everyone is a 'scientist' on his/her own path in life. It is just what you see as Science. And with that I don't mean the literal definition from the dictionary. There is more in life than only the simple facts.:)

I suggest you go do some posting at the Science Forum...
 
My personal belief is that [Q] and Mr. G. are one in the same. There are too many similarities in writing style, grammer, and syntax.
 
scilosopher,

I find it quite difficult to carry on any conversation, interesting or otherwise, with someone that attempts to integrate religion with science. You've already made that clear. And I've already made it clear that religion is complete nonsense.

There are no 'gray areas' in science. Science is the one pure thing we all share. If you feel that religion MUST be a part of science, then I cannot help but think you'll never accept science for what it is. You must dissimilate them.

I'm not saying you should let go your religious beliefs. That is entirely your business. But you should, at the very least, put your beliefs aside while viewing science. If you do, I'm sure those 'gray areas' will soon disappear.
 
Uhm ... I actually have never said science should be integrated with religion.

Personaly I integrate my knowledge of science and some social policies and broad perspectives in various religions as part of my quest to find balance and direction in the world.

I think it would be a horrible idea for religion to be integrated into science. I do however think that religions need to integrate understanding that comes from science into their beliefs if they want to stay current.

Secondly, as far as I remember I have never made a post regarding my religious beliefs and I am an agnostic. I don't practice any religion, though I do try and learn about and from their teachings. I think the social policies and perspectives that are espoused in many religions are the result of a lot of human thought and experience and should not be dismissed out of hand for their short comings.

For instance the concept of forgiveness lends robustness to social relationships, much as a certain degree of insensitivity to conditions is important in many biological processes.
Although I have not found any religion completely satisfactory, I don't think you've made it clear that religion is complete nonsense. You have made it clear that you think it is nonsense, but no one else has to accept that view as valid when they have something to say.

My main problem with organized religion is incarnations of it where freedom of personal belief is not accepted, like catholicism.

As to whether there are grey areas in science, believe what you want. I'm curious though, when there are two competing theories which both have some experimental evidence is that a grey area, not science, or what?

I'm sorry if you find it difficult to have a conversation with me. If you can give me a reason why, that I can make sense of, I'll try and make myself more clear. There has obviously been some misunderstanding, because you seem to think I'm saying things I'm not.


If I can make a general suggestion, I would recommend not being so reductionistic. It certainly makes thinking about things easier, but you lose a lot of the wonderful parts of life.
 
Nothing but accusations. First I'm Mr. G. Then I'm Tony1. Now its back to Mr. G.

I know neither of these individuals.

Similar writing style, grammar and syntax? Again, I'm flattered. Thank you. But i've already mentioned in another thread that i'm not in the same league as Mr. G. That should be obvious.

Banshee, Thank you for considering what I write is 'crap'. But are you sure it's you talking and not someone else controlling your thoughts with a mind-control implant? :eek:
 
scilosopher

Uhm ... I actually have never said science should be integrated with religion.
Click to expand...

I had to go back and collect a few of your thoughts:

I think science and religion are very closely related.

Personally I think they are siblings that people need to think more about how to integrate the two. Socially they both inform our perspective on the world.

If science and religion disagree I personally feel that science is often more accurate at the level of details, but religion more accurate at the level of wisdom.

There is less fact in most science than you seem to believe.

If not for theories and beliefs (or curiosity) to suggest new experiments there would be no scientific advance. Both of these things can be flawed (curiosity is never flawed).

Heres an interesting quote:

“For the last 400 years science has advanced by reductionism... The idea is that you could understand the world, all of nature, by examining smaller and smaller pieces of it. When assembled, the small pieces would explain the whole” (John Holland).
 
What´s up with the hostility? I just don´t get it why some people seem to be so totally unable to carry on a civilized conversation without taking to personal insults and sarcasm....it just makes it boring to talk to those persons.... Does it make you feel "cool" or what is it? :rolleyes:
 
The first three are relevant, but the last two have nothing to do with the integration of science and philosophy.

Being closely related does not mean they should be integrated. And I think they both come from the common root of humans wanting to understand the world around them and their place in it. When I said people should THINK about how to integrate them, I meant socially as it is placed by the next sentence. Thinking about integrating them would not involve bringing religion into the lab. I never meant science should actually integrate religious beliefs into it. I don't pray when I do experiments, even when they fail and I might want to.

Reductionism has been useful for science, and I think it still is to some extent. However as we figure out the more simple phenomena the ones left to study are the more complex, which aren't always as well approached through reductionism. When there are lot's of nonlinear interactions, you must study things more on the system level. Reductionism can miss a lot of major effects there. I said you should be less reductionistic and I was speaking in a context of having discussions with other human beings. Which are pretty complex and being reductionistic can miss important aspects of what they have to say.

So does taking things out of context, though I'll certainly admit, I'm not always rigorous about going through everything I write and seeing if it can be interpretted in ways I don't mean.
 
I'm trying not to be hostile and I hope I don't come off that way ... I actually have had similar beliefs to Q at one point, but my perspective has changed ...
 
esp quoted:

Your original post seemed to say that there was too much crap in the forums to trawl through.
Yet you've stayed at least long enough to have a three page open debate; it cant be that bad.
Seriously, if you just want to debate pure science, why not stay in the general science forum, don't go where you don't like!

You may or may not have noticed that I began a thread here:

http://www.sciforums.com/t5137/sb8224470a8c7804d3379480ae7710f44/thread.html

Wet1 was the only member to respond. He graciously added that the topic was interesting. So why hasn't the topic received the attention it deserves? Why have you not contributed your thoughts?

Perhaps your time is better spent dreaming up ideas that I'm part of a userid conspiracy theory.



scilosopher, I'm not sure but I think babelina is directing her comments at me, nes't pas? You certainly have not been hostile. You're posts have been well written and tempered.

Perhaps I *should* change my userid to "Evil Q"
 
Q,

Awe you have a sweet side too ... bebelina can't be too mad at you now.

Sides you put yourself in a frustrating position when you made your minor observation. I guess some people thought it was significant.
 
[Q]...

In the first place I am not religious. Hell. I hate it.:(

Why can't you leave other members on the boards be in peace with their own way of living? Keep an open mind and look some closer to what humans have to say here at the Forums.
Science is not only a case of evidence and facts. A lot has to be discovered yet and there is more to life than only scientifical facts.:)

You sounded as a nice person when you came in at Sciforums, but I have to admit that you show little respect for the members who have another way of thinking and living than you do.

And you really sound like some other member here on the boards. I can't help but stay on thinking that because you really sound and write in the same way.

Further I can't care less about what you think of me, just have a little respect please. That is all I ask from you.

Is that to difficult for you? I give you the benefit of the doubt for now. But please, try to have an open mind for other posters here at Sciforums. :)

Do you have a 'sweet' side? Tell me more about it...;)
 
In the first place I am not religious. Hell. I hate it.

Don't hate religion. Just don't think about it. You'll be a happier person for it.

Why can't you leave other members on the boards be in peace with their own way of living?

Am I not allowed to have an opinion? Can I not point out to someone that perhaps their way of living is irrational? Subtlety only works to a certain degree. Then you have to bring out the sledgehammer.

Keep an open mind and look some closer to what humans have to say here at the Forums.
Science is not only a case of evidence and facts. A lot has to be discovered yet and there is more to life than only scientifical facts.

I agree with you that much has yet to be discovered. But science will ultimately lead in those discoveries. Would we, by any other means, be able to converse so pleasantly if it were not for science?

You sounded as a nice person when you came in at Sciforums, but I have to admit that you show little respect for the members who have another way of thinking and living than you do.

And you really sound like some other member here on the boards. I can't help but stay on thinking that because you really sound and write in the same way.

You called my writing 'crap.' You accuse me of creating multiple userids. Respect?

People will go on living the way they do regardless of what I may bleat at them. Rationality can be taught however.

Further I can't care less about what you think of me, just have a little respect please.

I *don't* think of you. :)
 
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