Minor Observation

[Q]...

Will you please reread Ana's reply? For she explains it very well and I agree with her in this totally.

If you are only looking for a Science Forum, then you only have to post at the Science Forum.

She took the time to give her opinion, now you are saying that this Forums are in her eyes the only good Forums? That is not what is in her reply.

She gives her opinion. Isn't that what you were looking for?

Reread it well please.;)

Thank you.
 
banshee,

If i misunderstood ana's post, i apologize.

My mind must not be working very well. Probably from having to wade through mountains of religious chaff.

You mean there actually IS a science forum here?

Oh yes, there it is, underneath that pile of cobwebs. ;)
 
Q,

There is a disproportionate amount of irrational thinking in evidence here at Sciforums.

Such is life.

Hang and find enlightenment where you can. Be patient. ;)
 
Mr G

"He that can have patience can have what he will."
Franklin.

And the will *is* strong!

...but the flesh is weak. :D
 
pfft!

oooooookay then. So, what you are implying then is that people do NOT actively search for a science forum? People all of a sudden decide to type in www.sciforums.com for the hell of it and see if there is a webpage that matches??? ;)

A friend of mine guided me to this forum. She thought it was cool, I came in and agreed so I stayed....I like diversity....even if not all of it is rational. At least you can see where the irrationality is coming from once you get to know the people a little bit better by reading their posts (it can be entertaining after you get over the frustration they give you). If you don't appreciate the "irrational threads" then don't read 'em--skip on to the ones that you find worthy of your time...quite simple.
 
hehe :D

Funny you should say that, ana.

I was guided here by the "Hand of Providence." ;)

Thanks, I'll take your advice and 'slash and burn' my way thru the underbrush. There should be signs of growth somewhere. I'm starting to sound like Chauncey Gardner.

btw, "irrational threads" are not entertaining. imo.:)
 
how bout rational discussions of the irrational?? Emotions are a big part of human life and there is a method to their madness ...

also, if what a person says isn't explicitly interesting considering their motivation for saying it may be ...
 
People all of a sudden decide to type in www.sciforums.com for the hell of it and see if there is a webpage that matches???

YOU WON'T BELEIVE, Ana. That is just what I did.
I wanted to talk about science and stuff and typed in this adress. So I found this wonderous place.
Bye!
 
Well, this is my first post and I hope I am doing it right. I am interested in a lot of things, and when I wonder about something, I look it up. Something I was looking up had a link to this site, so I came over, read a little, liked what I saw, and joined.
I just wanted to point out that a lot of 'scientific' debate leads to 'religious, moral' debate, for example, cloning, and stem cell research. I also believe that a lot of people have a more emotional investment in their religion than they do their science, and I think it is natural that where you have discussions about scientific advances, you will also end up with religion thrown into the mix. My suggestion would be to skim the threads, read what you want, and skip the rest.
ee
 
Hi Eeyeor, welcome at Sciforums.:)

I agree with you totally. From out my feelings.;)

Enjoy Sciforums, it is a great place to be. With and without 'rational thinking'.:p

Have a nice day you all.
 
Welcome to Sciforums, Eeyeor. I think you have hit on the essence of the forums. There will be that which interests you and that which doesn't. No matter what your interests though, there will be something for you.
 
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Q,

The interests at sciforums seem to be representative of world opinion, although perhaps more biased towards American opinions since most here are from the USA. And in that sense the bias towards religion is understandable.

The USA is one of the most religious countries in the world, and I believe South America has been identified as the most superstitious. The distinction is not very significant.

Regarding the USA: At the same time it is recognized that the quality of science education has fallen in recent decades and the number of University admissions to science courses has also declined.

This is very sad and we need to work harder to correct this as soon as we can. It doesn’t help that current prominent USA politicians seem to be pushing religion before science and that is a very disturbing trend. While I live in California I am originally from the UK and there, and in most of Europe, the trend is away from superstition and religion. The USA seems to be an exception in the western world but then the America culture also seems to be relatively inferior and unsophisticated when compared with Europe, I hope I don’t offend anyone here but I can’t help but notice the differences.

The things people are taught, or not taught, are reflected in how people live their lives and what they want to talk about. And many people, especially Americans, have come to expect instant answers. Science requires hard work, diligence, attention to detail, strict logic, and a grueling search for evidence and proofs. Unfortunately most people don’t want to either wait or are too lazy to apply themselves. The result is the easy way out, they believe what they want to believe and ignorance and superstitions are becoming the norm.

Many, if not most, of the posts in the religion forum are not about religion but about how we determine what is real and not real. I think at the moment non-believers outnumber the believers. The religion forum is certainly not a preaching area, and those that try that are severely rebuked. Many of the battles are about science versus religion (or reason versus faith, or rational thought versus irrational thought) and in that sense you could divide the number of total posts in the forum by 2 and add one half to the side for science.

There are no limitations or restrictions at sciforums, except perhaps an expectation that everyone is courteous to each other. And with a large number of members from all walks of life and ages then you must expect that the proportions of the discussions represent similar proportions in the real world.

Science is about a search for knowledge. Religionists believe that faith also discovers knowledge. If you support the scientific method then you should have an interest in logic, reason, and the importance of evidence and proofs. The religion forum offers you an opportunity to test your skills of reason and logic against those who do not hold such things of much value. The rational thinkers among us know we can never win a logical argument against those who do not think rationally. But boy it really helps to put effort into a well thought out reasoned argument. Perhaps in the hope that it might sway the irrational, but more because it is fun to think things through and try to explain what one really believes and understands.

So don’t see the religion forum as a place for bible study or similar. At sciforums it is a battle of logic and requires the same skills as those required for science.

But of course all of this is from my personal perspective as one who requires evidence and proof before believing a hypothesis as truth.

Cris
 
I just wanted to point out that a lot of 'scientific' debate leads to 'religious, moral' debate

Please don't confuse morals with religion. Nary the two shall meet. ;)

Stem cell research is a perfect example of the confusion between moral and religous debate.

And while moral debates are quite interesting, religious debates are complete nonsense. They have little if anything to do with science. They are simply a front for denial.

I also believe that a lot of people have a more emotional investment in their religion than they do their science, and I think it is natural that where you have discussions about scientific advances, you will also end up with religion thrown into the mix.

I don't think so. Religious discussions about scientific advances culminates from those who would view these advances detrimental to their beliefs.

My suggestion would be to skim the threads, read what you want, and skip the rest.

I'm attempting to do just that. So far i've managed to glean a whopping 5 percent rational thought. The rest is jibberish. :eek:


it is a great place to be. With and without 'rational thinking'

Blissful, isn't it?
 
At sciforums it is a battle of logic and requires the same skills as those required for science.

Please pass this link along to the religious protagonists. God knows they need it. :D

http://www.dur.ac.uk/~dfl0www/modules/introlog/PROP.HTM

As an aside, I quickly conducted a search thru the New Testament (Rheims 1582) for the words 'moral' and 'ethic' produced this response;

"Your simple query produced no results."

http://www.hti.umich.edu/r/rheims/

Hmmmm...
 
Q,

Perhaps I should have said the battle FOR logic.

Thanks for the link. As for religious morality I guess you need to search for commandments; Christian morality is based on authoritarianism rather than reason and ethics, but even then you might not find much since such commands are not highlighted in any one place. What constitutes such rules is a matter of interpretation of largely ancient superstitions and older mythologies.

There are actually few real scientists here at sciforums. Boris was certainly in that arena but we haven’t seen him here for a while. An infusion of real science would be valuable for everyone, not only in the science forums but also if they could lend their expertise in the occasional and relevant religious topic.

So, really, what are your interests, and are you likely to stick around?

Cris
 
Well, welcome (Q) and Eeyeor! :)

Of course we discuss science here! But maybe your definition if science differ from ours. But I should of course not say ours, because all of our definitons of science is probably EXTREMELY individual. But that´s what makes it fun. The diversity of opinions and worldviews.
So what is your definition of science?
:D



 
Definition of science

Study and understanding of that which is.
Put simply :)

For me, anyway.
 
Bebelina, Thanks for the 'giant red fonts.' It gave me cause to clean my sunglasses. :rolleyes:

all of our definitions of science is probably EXTREMELY individual

I think you may have spotted the flaw here. The definition of science is, "the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena."

The only other definition of science I know of is science with the prefix, "pseudo."

But that´s what makes it fun.

Yes. I certainly puts the 'fun' back in fundamental.
 
Bebelina ...

I don't care what anyone says, I think your big colourful fonts are great...

The definition of science is, "the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena."
Q

The theoretical part bothers me...
Does not theory become science when proven?
Isn't theoretical explanation pseudoscience until proven?

Q, apart from that,your definition is valid...
:cool:

But what would you have us do?
Be so exclusively rigid in what is allowed in discusion here that anything without a definite scientific root has to be discussed elsewhere?
Surely that's why the forums are split so that you can go where you want.
 
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If science doesn't involve theory it's generally considered phenomenology.

The interesting part is that what theory science considers valid can change as it progresses. All explanations we have right now are most probably approximations. Like newton's laws. Amazingly accurate at a certain accuracy of measurement under certain conditions.

Science also is broadly interpretable. The proposed definition does not give any criteria for determining what is good and acceptable scientific inquiry vs. flawed nor specific details as to the exact scientific method.

Science actually is subject to debate. It's a very social enterprise when it comes down to it. Thomas Kuhn, an important science historian, has even argued that for science to advance it sometimes requires a new generation of scientists as the last generation cannot come to accept the evidence before them so stuck in a specific way of thinking. That's where paradigm shifts come from. The whole way we view the world changes at that point - what would be considered the scientific answer from a theoretical stand point changes.

If not for theories and beliefs (or curiosity) to suggest new experiments there would be no scientific advance. Both of these things can be flawed (curiosity is never flawed).
 
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