I disagree, you might as well say it is possible to be right about myths. Belief or myth, there is nothing to suggest either are real. I can't give religion any validation or something that sounds like it's a validation. Self-righteousness is sure to follow if you do.
Michael's core problem with religions: self righteousness..
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I disagree, you might as well say it is possible to be right about myths. Belief or myth, there is nothing to suggest either are real. I can't give religion any validation or something that sounds like it's a validation. Self-righteousness is sure to follow if you do.
Beliefs can be about anything. It is anything one believes in, from the scientific method to who is the best running back to whether Iraq had weapons of mass destruction to what the best way to study for an exam is. Everyone has beliefs.
Yes, I agree. I mean, have you ever met a Christian who looked at polytheists as equals? How many Muslims see the Book of Mormon's as equal to their Qur'an? Oh, they may say otherwise but upon further questioning... (well actually they won't say otherwise
I've met a few Japanese who seemed to suggest that there was an Asian race and within this race lie the Japanese race. The Japanese race was better than the other Asian races. But, probably not as good as the White race.
Isn't that odd? But 150 years ago, this was probably a normal way of thinking.
I totally agree.
I wonder, do the Shinto who worship Minato-gawa in Kobe see their particular mountain god as being better than a mountain god worshiped in China or other parts of Japan or India or maybe a water God worshiped in North America? I wonder if "better than" even has any meaning once you leave the vicinity of that particular mountain?
One thing that's interesting about polytheism and Buddhism in Japan is that Buddhist Temples provide the Shinto with a shire to pay respect at while visiting the Temple and the Shinto Shrines provide a place for Buddhists to meditate and pray.
Not that this was always so. Once there was a Japanese Buddhist Priest (400 years ago or so?) who got it in his head that Only His form of Buddhism was correct. Perfect. He became a local Prophet. His followers went around and smashed up Shinto and other Buddhist Temples. They did this for years. And they gathered more followers who caused more mischief. Finally the local Lord had had enough, he sent in some Samurai, and they ended the problem then and there.
Rulers have ALWAYS kept a close eye on local superstition. That's always been the case everywhere. Up until now anyway.
Interesting huh?
I suppose I didn't know what you meant when you said belief. I mean, someone could believe that there are aliens somewhere out in the universe and someone may believe there are no aliens and we are all alone in the universe.
It's possible one of the two is right?
I'd ask Marshall Applewhite but..... I guess there are no boundaries when it comes to religion.
Actually, I have. There is a portion of even the monotheists who sees religious as routes to God or wholeness and sees the different religions as paths.
This I have no idea.How many Muslims see the Book of Mormon's as equal to their Qur'an? Oh, they may say otherwise but upon further questioning... (well actually they won't say otherwise
I do think some pagans are not so obsessed with what the other guy is doing and so much of the religion is related to place that if you ain't there of course you are doing something else.
St. John the Divine in NYC had something like this, at least at one point. I think there is more of this mutual respect than one might expect from reading the newspapers.
And being a Samurai was religious in the way I consider the term meaningful.
They've collaborated on some of the worst stuff. And then they have their tiffs. An uneasy alliance.
Seeing different religions as different paths and seeing them as equals are two different things.
That said, yes, I also know "Christians" who see polytheisms as possible paths to "God". My father and uncle come to mind. As a matter of fact a lot people come to mind. The baby boomer generation comes to mind. None of these guys go to church mind you. They like to drink and smoke pot on Sunday rather than go to Church! As a matter of fact, the only thing that defines them as Christian is that they have some wishy washy belief in God and happen to live in the USA - where Baby Jabeesus hails from (Florida I'm sure
Not too many Christians who take their religion seriously (or Priests or Ministers for that matter) will put the worship of other Goddesses and Gods on EQUAL footing with Christ. Sure the whole generation has shifted to a much more amendable Christianity but this has been a shift in society more than theology - wouldn't you agree? Religion isn't cutting the path any longer for Western nations, it's following blindly (along with everyone else). And if anything looking for any hook to get people back on the seats.
Probably very very very few. Maybe if they live in the West - mainly Utah
That's true.
But what about universal objects like the Sun, Moon or even Mediterranean Sea. Ever read about multicultural theology in the Roman Empire? Quite the market place really.
What was it?
How so? Seemed more a position in society to me. But, yeah, I guess there could be religious-like observance?
By your definition of taking it seriously. I think people outside of a religion should think twice before thinking they can determine who the real.....buddhists, Christians, Muslims, etc. are. I see a large group of people in the West who are developing their own ideas about God based on their experiences and what they respect either in a core religion for from a number of religions. I see this in all ages since the boomer generation. Some nature based, neo pagan, some coming out of Judaism and Christianity, some through Eastern religions.
Your assumption is that there is no God so religion is wrong. And that works for you. But perhaps religion has been not so good approximations, clouded by personalities, organizations and cultures and there is a God or Gods or both and we are moving towards better approaches to relating and understanding that. in syncretic approaches.
No I dont think the trend is just marketing by the various churches. I think people are taking more responsibility for their beliefs and basing them more on experience. Sure the mass, as far as I can tell ticks whatever box, but they do that in elections also.
I suggest caution, we are bombarded by negative images of these people for specific reasons.Probably very very very few. Maybe if they live in the West - mainly Utah
I believe they had quite a bit of multi religious rituals and rooms set aside for other religions and so on.
They had a philosophy, a creed....hell, to me anyone who commits suicide ritually is part of a religion. Call me crazy.
I agree with this. It fits my observations. I'm also convinced that stable somewhat safe societies lean away from religious observance.
hmmmmm 'wrong' can have a number of definitions.
I'll try to explain: I think some forms of 'religion' can be very helpful and, for now, are a necessity. The only question now is what that religion teaches.
Take Slavery for example. Suppose a religion strongly advocates for Slavery. I mean real Slavery. As in buying and selling human beings. Does Institutionalized Slavery facilitate the progress of a modern society? Institutionalizing the rules regarding the so-called "fair treatment" of Slaves in the past is an aspect of religion that should be removed because it doesn't help people in the modern world - if anything, the suggestion that Slavery can be a Godly sanctioned activity is a weight around societies neck preventing progress. Whether people know this or not. We're not living in the Dark Ages .... ..... why maintain an aspect of a superstition that's a throwback from some neolithic mindset?
That is, if we agree Slavery is not a desirable aspect of society.
We do agree Slavery is not desirable????
I feel like people just don't care. They like the idea that they're going to go to Heaven after they die and that there is no Hell so all their mates will be their with them - so this what they believe.
Bushido is a creed, but, I think most Samurai were Shinto/Buddhist.
Crazy
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I don't think we have a neutral example. In Western nations while the monotheisms are tolerated by the techno scientific class, supernatural and alternative beliefs in general are attacked, scoffed at and adherents are shamed. Then you also have the organized churches who attack people taking responsibility for their own spiritualities and basing their 'religious' beliefs more on their experiences - meditation, shamanic work, private rituals, vision quests, whatever. So the choice becomes a false dilemma: either you are a rational science supporter or you join an organized religion. Those who do step away from these options have to work through a lot of BS, much of it internalized - there is a trend against this though and so you do have more and more people taking responsibility for their own 'religions'. I put religions in citation marks because though these systems do have beliefs in what often gets falsely categorized as supernatural, they are not organized churches.
If you follow discussions on online forums, religious belief is almost universally characterized as organized monotheistic kinds and the non-religious attack and mock Biblical contradictions and theological issues - like can God make a stone so big...etc. - based mostly on the Big Three.
This is the kind of environment we have.
We are still in a backlash against the organized monotheisms. There is a great deal of historically built up fear and anger at these religions and anyone seeming to have religious beliefs will find themselves attacked with some of that anger and fear. They will also be mocked for being irrational, despite whatever experiences and intelligence that has gone into their beliefs.
IOW there is no good control group.
This is a transitional phase in society.
But Wicca, earth based spiritualities, paganisms in general, magic based belief systems, psychic and unusual phenomena, etc., is on the rise. Deep interest in abnomalies and spiritual beliefs based not on being a good little bow down and follow the rules but rather on exploratory self-deeply-invested practices are also on the rise. And these people tend to be above average in intelligence, reasonably well read, not afraid of science and also often in parallel quite interested in it.
But there are neo con beliefs, secular ones that are direct parallels to the slavery issue, having real effects right now in the world. Most religions do not support slavery any more - except wage slavery, but then so do the secular organizations.
Sure, but this seems like a strawman to me.
Or this is what keeps them from wanting to look too closely at their beliefs. But again, we are talking about people basing their beliefs primarily on tradition and authority. Not people exploring. And we are also in the organized monotheist model.
I'll say it again. Anyone who has as part of their beliefs the importance of ritual suicide is religious.
So let me see if I got you correctly. The Western world is in a transitional phase where people are investigating and experimenting with other forms of belief outside of mainstream monotheism, but do so from within a system based in Christian monotheism and to some extent the other two. Seems reasonable.
Why do you think we are in a transitional phase?
RE: Ritual suicide.
Even shamed Roman's commonly committed suicide. It's wasn't unusual for a Roman mother to commit suicide to regain family honor if her son proved to be a coward in battle. At least for the upper class. So I have read anyway.
I have never heard of Bushido being classified as a religion but I can see some similarities. In the sense that there are little affiliations in the modern world that bring about such a deep contemplation and commitment. There were different kinds of Samurai. Pre-Tokugawa they were more like hired thugs. But the Samurai we are talking about were different. Shinto/Buddhism was well meshed within their philosophy. If Bushido is a religion, then I think the Tea Ceremony would also have to be classified as religion too - as it can induce a meditative Zen state when performed properly.
But, it may be that Shinto/Buddhism was much more ingrained in the mind of all Japanese and perhaps there wasn't a delineation in their mind as there is ours. What I mean is, the whole thing was lived. We categorize things in ways they probably didn't and so it might not make sense to even say "religion" for any of their beliefs over saying "culture". If that makes any sense?
Why do you think we are in a transitional phase?
RE: Ritual suicide.
Even shamed Roman's commonly committed suicide. It's wasn't unusual for a Roman mother to commit suicide to regain family honor if her son proved to be a coward in battle. At least for the upper class. So I have read anyway.
I have never heard of Bushido being classified as a religion but I can see some similarities. In the sense that there are little affiliations in the modern world that bring about such a deep contemplation and commitment. There were different kinds of Samurai. Pre-Tokugawa they were more like hired thugs. But the Samurai we are talking about were different. Shinto/Buddhism was well meshed within their philosophy. If Bushido is a religion, then I think the Tea Ceremony would also have to be classified as religion too - as it can induce a meditative Zen state when performed properly.
But, it may be that Shinto/Buddhism was much more ingrained in the mind of all Japanese and perhaps there wasn't a delineation in their mind as there is ours. What I mean is, the whole thing was lived. We categorize things in ways they probably didn't and so it might not make sense to even say "religion" for any of their beliefs over saying "culture". If that makes any sense?