meaning of jehad

Buddha1 said:
If Islam is really peaceful and spiritual in nature, then why does it tolerate (leave alone encourage) terrorism? Why doesn't it throw out the terrorists from Islam?
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who has with stand the terrorism? with all respect do you know the actual meaning of the terrorism.
 
evolution said:
who has with stand the terrorism? with all respect do you know the actual meaning of the terrorism.
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I can start with the early Islamic history of violently forcing people to convert to Islam. Of forcing entire cultures and communities into extinction in order to expand Islam. (I sometimes wonder --- I don't know --- if this is why Jews are all around the globe, because they were forced out of their homes).

Today, when using violence to proselytise is no longer possible, the extremist elements which Islamic system fosters is getting impatient and is killing innocent people all over the world!

And don't give me that crap about Muslims being victimised. Look at any Muslim society and see how it treats people of other faiths --- if any have survived in their societies, that is! In Afghanistan, they blew up the last remanants of their peaceful ancestors who were Buddhists.

I mean, you wanna know what is being victimised --- look at the Tibbetans. And we don't see them killing innocent people.

In short, exploding a bomb where innumerable innocent citizens, including children get killed, for no fault of theirs --- that is terrorism.

If you're so brave and full of virtue then by all means go and fight the armies!

If you have any other definition of terrorism, we can discuss that too!
 
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evolution said:
sir you got me totaly wrong i am not standing or protecting terroists or any kind of jehadist group that are making the world an unsafe place but what actually i wanted that there is misconception about islam which i have found very disturbing and trying to give the real picture of things.
actually what i am against is that frist these jehadist group where shown as they where heroes (in USSR war against Afganistan) and now the same pleople are called as terrorist. Above i have given the example on reader digest in which frist usama was shown as a hero( published in 80's) and now as a terrorist. what i want is that people should try to understand thing before making an kind of claims. what non-muslim usually do, they take one veres of the holy Quran and start telling other people that it talks about killing other people and do not bougther to read the whole chapter or the not even try to understand the background of the veres.
Atucally it is said in Quran that dicuses quran with people in the good manner. thats what actually i am doing.
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All very appreciable. And my best wishes to you! I can see that change is coming in the Islamic world too, which had come into the control of the terrorists. If people like you can change that, you are indeed doing a good job for Islam as well as for the rest of the world. But let's see how sincere you are. And how far you can go, if you limit yourself to your holy book.
 
I was watching the cutting edge last night:
The Cutting Edge: Al-Zaqawi - The Face of Terror
The interviews with the average Moe :) on the street was amazing. I did not realize just how many people in the ME have so much hate. I’m talking serious HATE. Serious. It’s like Black-Rage only in the ME. And the blaming, OMG Jew this Jew that on and on and on.

I personally think, and the sad thing is, that having that much religion interfering on ones life, well there’s really no hope for society over there. Without having a monopoly on oil or trade I just don’t see how they are ever going to pull their finger out.

So.

I’m sitting their studying some Japanese when this really moderate Imam gets on the TV. He’s trying to explain that the Palestinians have had it tough for a long time and maybe it’d be OK to just try and make peace with the Jews. All these other Muslims are like WTF?!? They shove him to the side and then a Palestinian (actually working for the TV crew) says: There can be no peace while the Jews occupy Arab land. Full stop. Then the moderate Imam tries to nicely say: Well look I’m just saying maybe we can take a break from the fighting for awhile? Meanwhile this really old Tribal leader Muslim steps in. Hey like: What’s going on here?!? He goes: Listen, if you are a man true to your word you will record what I have to say. This whole world wants peace. We all want peace. It can happen – this whole world can have peace with just one word. Just one. “Kill every single Jew in the world and we will have peace!!!”

OMG, I about fell over. Wow, I really started laughing it was so comical. What a nut.

That’s who you’re up against evolution, not us, but 99% of the Muslims living in the world.

Anyway, I also had a couple questions evolution, as you said you wanted to discuss the Qur’an then I’d be happy to hear your thoughts on these questions:

1) Is Arabic God’s language?


2) Is Arabic a superior language when compared to any other language in the world?


3) Is it right for a Muslim to migrate to America, build a Mosque and practice Islam freely there?


4) Is it right for a Jew to migrate to Saudi Arabia, build a Synagague and practice Judaism freely there?


5) Do you think that Palestine should be returned to Muslim control?


6) The Europeans are obviously technologically advanced. Do you think that this is directly as a consequence of their interactions with Islamic Middle East or would they have progressed equally as fine even if they had never come into contact with the Muslims?


7) Do you wish the entire world to be Islamic?


8) Did Muslims invent the concept of Zero?


9) In what year and on what day was the Qur’an finished?


10) Is the Qur’an you read exactly the same as the very first Qur’an?


11) Are all Qur’an used in the world written exactly the same?


12) Do you think that all countries should allow Mosques to be built?


13) Do you think that all countries should allow Synagogues to be built?


14) Should Christian missionaries be allowed to evangelize in Islamic countries?


15) Which, to you, are the top 5 advancements, discoveries or inventions that Islamic people have made?


Thanks

Michael
 
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evolution said:
thanks for the reply. frist of all i like to mention that i also belive in bible as muslim. now i don't think so that in bible that kind of thing is mentioned it would been put by some huamn in it but islam has forbiden to keep slaves it is said in quran that free your slaves and do good with them. Give them what you eat and wear.
it is also said that a human who kills one human has killed all humanity.

thanks
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Actually, from reading the Quran I agree with your notion about the slaves, however I get the opposite notion about killing.

In Islam, it is not only ok, but right to kill anyone who is not a believer of Allah. However if they are a believer, then killing them is wrong.

"Fight against those who believe not in Allah and the Last Day and do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger, have forbidden -- such men as practice not the religion of truth, being of those who have been given the Book -- until they pay tribute out of hand and have been humbled" (Sura al-Tawba 9:29).

"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers" (Quran 2:191)

"O believers, fight the unbelievers who are near to you, and let them find in you a harshness; and know that Allah is with the godfearing" (Sura al-Tawba 9:123).

"O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust." (5:51)

"We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust." (3:151)

"And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" (48:13)

Seems to explain a lot of terrorists attacks, whether they are "misinterpretations" or not.
 
I know this is late as evolution seems to have jumped ship but I just stumbled across this article on "The Institute of Islamic Information and Education" based in Chicago, IL USA. The article makes a very strong case for the greater jihad being the military jihad and the lesser jihad being the spiritual jihad. for example

"Those believers who sit back are not equal to those who perform Jihad in the Path of Allah with their wealth and their selves. Allah has favored those who perform Jihad with their wealth and their selves by degrees over those who sit back. To both (groups) has Allah promised good, but Allah has favoured the Mujahideen with a great reward, by ranks from Him, and with Forgiveness, over those who sit back. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most- Merciful." (Quran 4:95-96)
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and

This hadeeth contradicts mutawatir (mass-narrated) ahadeeth which have been reported from the Prophet (salallaahu 'alayhee wa sallam), and which make plain the excellence of Jihad. We will mention a few of these.

"A morning or an evening spent in the Path of Allah is better than the world and all it contains." [Bukhari and Muslim]

"Standing for an hour in the ranks of battle in the Path of Allah is better than standing for sixty years (in prayer)." [Sahih Al-Jami']

Abu Hurayrah (radiallaahu 'anhu) said, "Is any of you able to stand in prayer without stopping, and to fast continuously for as long as he lives?" The people said, "Oh Abu Hurayrah! Who could endure that?" He said, "By Allah! A day of a mujahid in the Path of Allah is better than that."

The claim of those who say that the 'struggle against the self' is the Greater Jihad because the individual is put to test by day and by night, may be refuted by the following hadeeth:

On the authority of Rashid, on the authority of Sa'd (radiallaahu 'anhu), on the authority of one of the Companions, that a man said, "Oh Messenger of Allah! Why is it that the believers are all put to trial in their graves, except for the martyrs?" He (salallaahu 'alayhee wa sallam) said, "The clashing of swords above his head was sufficient trial for him." [Sahih Al-Jami']
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Don't wish to post the entire article you can find it here.

Here however is the authors conclusion

In a few hours or days, the Mujahid sees, with his own eyes, such hardships, trials, and tribulations, as others do not see in decades. It will be impossible for anyone who engages in this experience of Jihad to equate physical Jihad with other pacifistic means of Dawah. Therefore, anyone who disputes with the Mujahid in the issue of Jihad or who calls people to abandon fighting should join a camp, even if only as a servant. Or he should participate in a battle even if only as a cook. Then after that, we will see if, in his opinion, the pen is equal to the Kalashnikov.
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Evolution said:
what non-muslim usually do, they take one veres of the holy Quran and start telling other people that it talks about killing other people and do not bougther to read the whole chapter or the not even try to understand the background of the veres.
Atucally it is said in Quran that dicuses quran with people in the good manner. thats what actually i am doing.
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Sir,
The more radical islamists tend to do the same thing. They justify their actions at a singular interpretation to their scripture. That is the same with many of the Evangelical Christian faithful. Many justify their actions and are quite hypocritical basing it on scripture spoon-fed to them by their clerics. I am not against christianity or islam whatsoever, and I can note that Islam in itself is quite a compassionate religion if one does take the time to read the books(Granted I just can't like it since I think Mohammed is egotistical).

I agree understanding is much needed, and the more moderate voices are trying to be heard. Unfortunately much of the radical elements are the ones most covered. Humanity in itself tends to find a scapegoat for problems as well as concentrate on the bad, rather than the good, while extolling their own virtues. This happens in any culture, as people are afraid of what they do not know.

I tend not to like extremists of any religion. Muslim extremists however is what is seen, Catholic extremists tend to be more unknown. In the end, as I mentioned I tend not to like extremists, as I equate their reaction as childish, where they shut their ears towards a point of view that does not fit their own rigid beliefs, and at times react violently against it.

So take your time, and have a compassionate ear. Shutting off one who is trying to explain is counter-productive. It is easy to dismiss someone else's religion while not considering one's own history. Consider all the forced conversions that were done during the Crusades, the bloody history that killed off many innocents in witch trials, the hypocrisy of the Borgia Pope, the falling out between Mark and Peter which created the Roman and Coptic Catholics. Saying that 99% of a religious group are nuts leads me to believe the one saying it is deluded.

Any how, have fun and good luck in trying to sway the American Public at a time of polarization. The moderate elements tend to be drowned out, and I unfortunately see both virtues and faults and could not condemn things out of hand.
 
Sock puppet path said:
Islams problem is not trying to convince non-muslims that Jihad means struggle it is trying to convince your fellow muslims that. As long as there are muslims killing people and claiming that they are fighting a jihad you will never be able to convince non-muslims.

Look here is an example from the news




Also just a few examples from the quran that are talking about fighting not struggling
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"Hast thou not turned Thy vision Allah: They said: "Our Lord! Why hast Thou ordered us to fight? Wouldst Thou not"


The quotes you supplied from the quran, sound like shakespeare during his magic mushroom phase, is it possible allah was shakespeare, and he wrote the bible when he was sober, and the quran when he was drunk, or drug induced.


A jihad is basically this, you know when they release the bull into the arena in spain, and the matador starts waving his red flag, thats a jihad its a blood letting feast, or a sacrifice to god, in order to gain entrance into heaven.
 
Islam for novices part 2
Now a fatwa,
thats a whole new ball game, its a bit like libel, a bad bad, really bad man says something really bad about islam, then the head honcho, rangler, or religous nut issues a fatwa against that bad person, now its the job of sincere muslims to kill this bad man, its not like a western libel case, lengthy court costs, a fatwa cuts through all that red tape, or you could describe it as a international death warrant, but interpol plays no part in it.

Alcohol,
Thats a wicked liquid, which is banned under islam, all Alcohol drinkers are infidels, and very bad people.

Burqua,
Thats a camouflage*dress, worn by muslim women who have joined the army.
 
Xyzse said:
I tend not to like extremists of any religion. Muslim extremists however is what is seen, Catholic extremists tend to be more unknown. In the end, as I mentioned I tend not to like extremists, as I equate their reaction as childish, where they shut their ears towards a point of view that does not fit their own rigid beliefs, and at times react violently against it.
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You're right, good and evid people are everywhere, and people who kill innocents are definitely followers of the satan......but it is the system under which we operate that either brings out the good or bad in us. It is clear since the inception of Islam, that it has encouraged and cultivated the extremists (the bad/ evil element) in people, and thus so many muslims end up supporting violence against non-muslims or to get their way. Of course their ancestors were too were violently forced to become Muslims in the first place.
 
What kind of God would support killing of innocent people including women and children to get your ways, to gain territory or as means of converting people to their faith?

Why do this in the name of god? Why malign god and spirituality? Is it any surprising that Muslim terrorists, Mullahs and other state murderers think of themselves as 'being' spiritual (one actually thought he has attained 'Nirvana')? It is so funny when you hear 'spiritual' heads of Islam talking or abetting satanic violence?

Clearly Muslims have a different concept of god and spirituality than the rest of the world? Also Muslims don't think any means is lowly or evil enough to gain what they think is the word of the God!
 
Anomalous said:
Jehad = Fight for Freedom for the suppressed.

Jehad = Terrorism for the Supperessor.
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Oh by 'suppressor' you mean a 2 year girl child who died in one of the bomb blasts!

and by 'suppressed' you mean a people who overran communities and land killing and converting people and even today persecuting the rest who survive as minorities in their own ancestral lands.

I guess suppressed would mean a country like Iran which kills children because they had sex with each other!
 
Perhaps the destruction of the ancient Bamiyan statues in Aghanistan was a destruction of the symbol of suppression that Buddha was!
 
Buddha1, if U think by increasing your postal count U will one day become a moderator here is a big misundrestanding, Instead U should make some money and start your own GAY forum, dont bother us. we are happy without your GAY propoganda that U have infected this forums with.

Suppressed = Military Occupations in Middle east.
 
Anomalous said:
Buddha1, if U think by increasing your postal count U will one day become a moderator here is a big misundrestanding, Instead U should make some money and start your own GAY forum, dont bother us. we are happy without your GAY propoganda that U have infected this forums with.

Suppressed = Military Occupations in Middle east.
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Why are you so scared of talking things with logic! Because you know you are talking nonsense --- only your religion can support your nonsense! If your stand is so right then why doesn't it stand the test of discussions! Might is not really right you know!

Of course I'm not gay but you're a psychological nut, and with the kind of views you hold you are not fit to be in any civlised society! I don't know why they tolerate you in this forum. Only Islamic societies can tolerate you and they are hardly civilised.

How does military occupation in the middle east justify the killing of a two year old girl? Or the killing of two teenagers in Iran?
 
If you want to see real suppression and forcible occupation look at the Tibetans! How many people have they killed --- leave alone in the name of God! What kind of god fights for terrirotries with people.

What right does Islam has to occupy middle east or vast areas of the world? How did it get to be there? By peace and honoring the right of others? Those are concepts alien to Islam!

Why is it that Islam has not got a place of respect in the 'religion' section of this forum! Does it tell you about what the rest of the world think about Islam? Everyone is tired of Islam --- and it is precisely because what people like you have made it!
 
Buddha1 said:
..If your stand is so right then why doesn't it stand the test of discussions! Might is not really right you know!..
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U r a genetic garbage, U r not good enough to do that. thats how I feel about U twisted mind, I may be wrong but I have no way to know that, so just get off my face.
 
Buddha1 said:
...How does military occupation in the middle east justify the killing of a two year old girl? Or the killing of two teenagers in Iran?
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They certainly dont justify the occupations.

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I am a Rationalist, hence I have no problems with Atheist or Religious people, but I do have problem with thoes who are not with the truth in the name of Religion or any thing else.
 
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