Q
You really cannot stop making a fool out of yourself can you ?
You picked really the best subject ever ......
Flores
Well, view it this way. God to me is an infinite box full of unknowns. I know that he created the universe and me and that's I'm accountable to him in this life and the afterlife, but I don't know the content of his box and I'm convinced that nomatter how learned do I become that I'll remain ignorant about his contents.
Ok , but then in how far would you describe a specific knowledge you are studying as "trying to learn about" that box ? I would call that box theology , and I would wonder what I would consider theologic or not . As a matter of fact , I would have to have a theological understanding/assumption before I could call something not theological , no ?
For instance within my theological concept everything I could ever study is theological , weither its political or psychological or mathematical , its all theological in the sense that it IS theology itself . That is why understanding of Deen is so important , you cant keep God locked with that box . If I would follow your logic within my theological understanding , I shouldnt study anything at all .
The interesting thing is that whenever mankind associated something with God , he started studying that essence to understand God because it was of Him .
So what you would once call that box another would call astronomy , it all depends in howfar you (mankind) have proceeded in your understanding of what is linked directly with your Idea of God .
I agree, but some muslims with good intentions dwell too much in connecting science and the Quran and they go to extremes, like trying to proof that certain numbers in the Quran have actual scientific relevance, ect....When they do that with their good intentions, they are unknowingly subjecting the perfect Quran to error because they interpreted it based on today's knowledge which might be wrong and outdated twenty years from now
But everything is science , is the language in which the Qu'ran is written not scientific ? Just as it is agreed on for instance the
19 of the Qu'ran through agreement of what numbers are (mathematics) in the same way it is agreed that | means Alif and from that is conclusion are combinations of letters drawn and from that you have an interpertation of written ideas (words/sentences/concepts) .
So its all science , the only difference between Islamic scientists today and back then is that the linguistical scientists
had quite a clue about this relation between knowledge&written arabic & others to follow them , while today they know little about knowledge&written mathematics & have nobody that follows them because obviously others feel they know better .
What if back then someone else already had a mathematical understanding and shown to the peoples , would you then today disprove of the linguistical-Arabic study of the Qu'ran ?
They learned from others , if others wouldnt be there (like others are not here today) we wouldnt know Arabic in that sense , just like we dont know mathematics now . Should we than have said based on your logic , no lets not learn Arabic lets sit and just look at the Qu'ran all day ?
Does the same not go for all scriptures we have re-discovered in history like for instance Kemetian ? Well that would be a good example for your point actually as the translations are a farce in many ways .
And that is what I really wonder , how do you know that the Arabic that you have learned combined with the semantics you have learned are the true interpertation of Qu'ran ? That science is just passed on like anyother , maybe in time we would discover it is not correct , whats the difference then with what you present on these mathematic understandings of Qu'ran ?
Of course science is being manipulated, it's manipulated everytime it's used by scientists so how do you think the religious people who have no knowledge of science are doing
I understand that
scientists & religious folks manipulate everything , I was talking about that site specifically , as it is on that what you commented on with stating manipulation .
I agree that the seperation between Islam and science has been a disaster , in my eyes the seperation is one that didnt seperate anything but created something else : religion . Islam=Deen
Deen includes science
Intentions are good and all but they shouldn't be linked to emotions, and god loves those who reflect and understand.
You are right now making God subject of emotions , I am not linking any emotions with intentions . Understanding means being aware of knowledge , and that brings me to my statements above .
I don't think god love those who are dumb and act dumb with good intentions
Then God would hate the handi-capped
I dount think so , u know there is more to intelligence than acting dumb .
Sheikh in the mosque who has accepted the responsbility of moving masses and talking to masses on Friday while he knows inside of him that he knows shit about science or any other thing and that he is really an ignorant baboon who studied the Quran inside a little room by nodding back and forth can't have good intentions, he's merely enjoying the power and the status
No indeed that wouldnt be good intentions , but I was talking when the intentions are not just good but
true &
beautifull as well .
Vital
I'm not sure but I think the 1% is saying that wouldn't the circumference percentage be a decimal rather than a whole number if the universe wasn't designed in a certain way out of randomness. But I'm not sure...
If that would be his point it would be weak as it is only known that he does not know the perfection of .9999 not being perfect .
Question is as asked before , what is perfect in the eyes of God .
IMO Mathematics is perfect , thus I would agree its probable God says the same . But I dont know this for sure as I dont know perfection as long as Im not aware of it .
JDog
Really? Is that what it says in the Qua'ran?
No
Judging by your grammar and spelling and such, you aren't very intelligent
Judging by this statement you make about the relation of grammar and spelling with intelligence you're not either .
Oh boy, people using scientific method on your religious texts! The lie is over! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
The lie indeed is , however the lie has little to do with Qu'ran or Islam but with the lyers .
Since when is the Qua'ran perfect?
Thats the whole idea doofus , its perfect by defintion as its the word of God who is perfect by definition as well . The fact that you have an imperfect interpertation of it doesnt degrade its perfection .
There isn't one shred of objective evidence stating the Qua'ran is correct or legitimate.
?
You liken those who don't believe to a scumbag like the Khomeini, when in fact, sharing a non-belief in the uttlerly rediculous with a total ass like he is doesn't make us in any way associated with him.
What was your point with this ? Are you implying we should take Khomeini's word ?
And why the hell WOULD we believe the Qua'ran is right?
For the same reason you believe any other science is right , by testing it .
Stay ignorant, don't learn, don't question. That's the religious creedo.
Hey we agree on something , lol
Ok, what do you base this on? What level of education in any form of science do you have? What makes you think science can be manipulated, or is manipulated by scientist?
Science is being manipulated for ages man get real please , anthropology , history , logic even its all manipulated into bias .
Your Muslim people borrowed science and math from the Indians, Greeks and Egyptians and improved upon them. In some cases, Muslims became the greatest names in their field, like Al-Tusi, the father of trigonometry. Granted, Trig was invented by the Greeks, but through the use of astronomy, the Muslims improved it.
Lets be clear on what we compare shall we . You cant compare just any random movements , the Greeks learned from Babylon quite alot thats us as well . Either compare peoples or religions dont mix up the 2 like that .
How is science on your mind when your teachers tell you that the West is science and it is evil?
Actually the implications of "evil science" deal rather with dialectism & darwinism that shredded moral values in name of science through political movements .
Today an example would be lets clone babies because we can etc . Before you know it you might be able to make a baby within a guy and make him poop it out and moralisation of such would then be considered problematic .
I agree that moral values should not depend on possibilities only , therefor just having scientific knowledge should not have authority .
Thats a "hey we discovered u can die-lets kill everybody" mentality and that is not very wise .
Ok, another untruth. You have this notion of a time when the scope of science was studied by a single individual. This is crap. Science has ALWAYS had these seperate "Disciplines" as you call them, or seperate fields. Always. It was only after time that people started realizing the connection between some of them, not the other way around. I mean, where the hell do you get this information from?
Seems you rather than Flores are the one who should get better information as sciences evolved from logos (knowledge) in itself entirely even with you Greek-worshippers .
In ancient Babylon & Kemet sciences were one , why did you think Greeks invented philosophy ? No philosophizing before that ? Sure there was , just not seperate from everything else .
Sure someone know this better than that , but a scientist in general went with knowledge in general rather than a specific knowledge .
We could only wish it still was like that , so that we actually learn something of life than rather now absolutely everything about one stupid little thing .
I believe this to be at the root of the de-formation of Western society as it is today .
Crap. Science and religion were never one in the same. There is no way to teach a "holy science" because the facts of the world go against creationism.
What are you talking about man , sure as hell they were one what did you think there was no theology before Christianity (I mean let the Jews be the Jews they werent quite the master conquerers .... ahum) .
Oh man ....... Im getting worried about you .
But we know you have capability to improve
I can't even decipher that paragraph of run-on sentances.
I could . Now is my capability a handicap or would your handicap be capability ?
LOL
But thanks DAWG & DJ , you prove me quite well your position . I wonder weither it would actually matter what Flores would have said , as long as its from her religious perspective .
I dont think so