LightGigantic:
"No - you can get it even in this life - its just that the cold pizza is heaps easier to come by"
So you are claiming that one can know, with one hundred percent certainty, what happens after death in this life?
You can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, where we go when we die?
If so, I would ask you to present here your proof!
"So when you want to increase your pleasure you go looking for suffering?
Can you imagine anything which you conceive of as pleasurable in this world which does not grant suffering?"
As many joys require some suffering, yes, indeed I do seek suffering. In fact, a joy I have recently taken is punching a brick wall bare-fisted in order to deaden my hands to such pain. Though it hurts a great deal sometimes, I find the process enjoyable, and I marvel at how much greater resistance I have now, even after only a few weeks of doing such.
But no, I cannot think of anything in life which is pleasurable and does not have some aspect of suffering to it.
"At the very least there are a few hidden catches in sex life which could even perhaps warrant a manditory gov't warning"
That could make either a very popular, or very unpopular, tattoo.
"Competition exists, but unlike the material world they don't cut down the opponents to make oneself superior"
Yet surely there must be a loser? And thus that person suffers?
"You don't understand the fundamental difference between the spiritual and material world - in the material world everyone thinks thatthey are beautiful (or at least things related to them are beautiful - eg my country is the best because I am the best etc) - in the spiritual world everyone thinks god is the most beautiful, and service to god is the most beautiful, so beauty is entertained on these notions (and god in turn thinks his devotees are beautiful) so there are enough variations to ensure reciprocation etc"
Would not this then mean there'd be no art? For if beauty is to be found only in God, what is the point of art, yes?
"Fresh pizza"
What is an example of all the pleasures above in the spirit realm?
"The activity of the spiritual world is serving god, not being served by god (or served by god's pure representative, as in the case with jesus and the lemonade)"
So we are expected to find serving God enjoyable? This sounds like Hell! To be eternally trapped serving a being far greater than oneself? In what way, whatsoever, is this to be construed as pleasurable? It is eternal debasement!
"Thats right - that explains why you, and even the worm in stool, is currently satisfied with the respective current level of "happiness" in the material world "
Indeed. Ignorance is bliss, they say. So no position in this material world shall ever be that horrible, depending on one's form.
"On the contrary you can experience hell even in this world - like your legs could get chopped off or something"
That's pain, but not Hell. Is it not?
"No - we gravitate towards the service of god when we perceive there is pleasure to be obtained there - this is high grade intelligence"
Yet God mandates all things at this point, no?
"Not through violation but through our choice - once you enter the material world perhaps its not so straight forward since the element of illusion makes it difficult to make the decision to go back to t he spiritual world - and yes you can come back to the material world again - if you want -lol "
So basically, if one wants to leave God, one can? And that the fact that we are here, shows that we once denied an eternity with God?
perplexity:
"Price to pay?
That is like trying to tell an investor that the profit matters but a loss would not."
When the only other chance is nothing, or a situation far worse than any suffering one could have (if we assume the opposition to truly be that bad), then what true loss is being sustained?
"First be fearful of who you punish."
In their vengeance?
Theoryofrelativity:
"I notice these differences in people and yes it is important but those of us that lack 'natural goodness' can endeavour to improve, if that improvement is worth while."
Well the question really is: Is there anything utterly horrible about bad acts, in the absence of punishment? I mean, if no bad came from bad acts to oneself, at all, whatsoever, not even a personal debasement, or some other inferiority, would it really be bad?
"Behaving good is good of course, but it's not how we judge natural goodness. I know of a person who cannot hear or say a bad word of any person. This is a natural state to her, it is obvious. I have never met another like that. I don't even know how it is possible."
So would you go as far as to say, that such goodness is something that one must be born with, and no one can be as saintly as she?
"I do not aspire to be 'all good', because I have found that selflessness can be detrimental to oneself . Selfishness is a requirement for many pleasures and indeed let's replace the word selfish with 'self love' love yourself first ...but that goes against how we were conditioned does it not?"
Indeed, so often morality amounts to the improper notion of "love others even more than yourself, even if it causes one pain and suffering and destroys one's true capacity to love". This is the great fallacy of modern moral thought.
"It is a waste of a life to devote it all to other people. Unless after death we do indeed return for a second helping or reap some reward. "
I agree.
