Man’s laws are better than God’s. This is the irrefutable reason.

[Greatest I am]

No?

I see, you just meant varying the penalty. Very close to a semantic quibble.

If a law is set and the penalty for doing so has been specified, and then that law is broken...
The message is simple: this is the law, these are your bounds, don't exceed them. Or else.

That is the process yes but it does not speak to the original question of having the same penalty for more minor infractions.

You still dance away from that issue which is the main point.

Thieves, for instance, should not have the same penalties as murderers. In the religious system they do and in our more sane secular systems, they do not.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

This is of course the most absurd injustice of Christian doctrine. Although there are some Christians who believe that the eternal aspect of the punishment is the complete destruction of the soul and that this is essentially the same as non-existence. So the punishment is effectively eternal but the suffering isn't. But whichever way you look at it it's just a tad excessive. The real kicker is that it seems that human beings are more merciful than God is, because many countries don't have a death penalty for any crime and most of the ones that do reserve it only for the most heinous of crimes.

Well said.

I agree that it is hard for us to show reverence for life while taking it.
God should learn from man, not man from Bible God. He is some screwed up imaginary entity.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

On principle, Lori's stance is the correct one.

The problem is in how to distinguish between God's law and man's law in specific instances.

Generally, if it is less draconian and makes a bit of sense, it is man's.
If it has death and destruction of life then it is God's.

Pick any law and I think I can prove this all the time.

Regards
DL

 

[Dywyddyr]

That is the process yes but it does not speak to the original question of having the same penalty for more minor infractions.

You still dance away from that issue which is the main point.

Thieves, for instance, should not have the same penalties as murderers. In the religious system they do and in our more sane secular systems, they do not.

You're not seeing my point.
Yes, I agree the penalties shouldn't be the same.
But the reason I agree is that I'm human and that's my perspective - a human one.
The definition of "sane" that you're applying here is the human one.
Supposedly, since god set the laws for religions, those laws are set from a god-perspective/ definition of sanity.

 

[Greatest I am]

There is no distinction. God's law (if we are talking moral laws) was created by man in the first place. It is a testament to the inherent desire of man to be greater than himself. This may not always be apparent but such sentiments do exist in many people. Unfortunately however man can be both noble and intolerant at the same time and this is also reflected in God's law. An example of this is the condemnation of homosexuality. That sounds like a very human kind of intolerance to me.

That and rather silly.

How can an entity with no sexual organs have the necessary knowledge to make the rules for entities who do?

Regards
DL

 

[wynn]

Generally, if it is less draconian and makes a bit of sense, it is man's.
If it has death and destruction of life then it is God's.

Pick any law and I think I can prove this all the time.

You're God and should be trusted as such??

 

[Greatest I am]

You're not seeing my point.
Yes, I agree the penalties shouldn't be the same.
But the reason I agree is that I'm human and that's my perspective - a human one.
The definition of "sane" that you're applying here is the human one.
Supposedly, since god set the laws for religions, those laws are set from a god-perspective/ definition of sanity.

Then God should apply them to God's and leave man to rule himself.
After all, he did give man dominion did he not?

The God of ants is an ant.
The God of lions is a lion.
The God of men should be a man.
Our first God was a man and our last shall be as well.

To follow some alien God is rather stupid.
Especially one who plays hide and seek forever.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

You're God and should be trusted as such??

God, is just a word for a set of rules unless you are idol worshiping.

Should we follow the rules of someone who can be questioned for clarity or should we follow some absentee God who cannot be called upon to clarify anything?

I can challenge man's laws to improve them.
I cannot find a hiding God to even question.
If law cannot evolve then it is not worthy to be followed.

What does your God say of cloning and stem cell research?

Regards
DL

 

[Dywyddyr]

Then God should apply them to God's and leave man to rule himself.
After all, he did give man dominion did he not?

Complaining about "god's laws" is the equivalent of rat in a laboratory maze saying "If it were up to me I wouldn't have put that left turn just there".

 

[Greatest I am]

Complaining about "god's laws" is the equivalent of rat in a laboratory maze saying "If it were up to me I wouldn't have put that left turn just there".

So man should not accentuate better systems.
Go away fool.

Regards
DL

 

[Dywyddyr]

So man should not accentuate better systems.
Go away fool.
Regards
DL

Oh dear.
Someone can't read.

Just to play *cough* Devil's Advocate

Post #2.

All I've done is show that your "irrefutable reason" is actually not so.
Better luck with your next attempt and better luck with comprehension.

 

[Greatest I am]

Oh dear.
Someone can't read.

Post #2.

All I've done is show that your "irrefutable reason" is actually not so.
Better luck with your next attempt and better luck with comprehension.

Here we are at post 51 and you expect this absent minded type to remember # 2

Give me a break if I deal with the post at hand and forget that you were playing a game from the outset.

Regards
DL

 

[Dywyddyr]

Here we are at post 51 and you expect this absent minded type to remember # 2

Give me a break if I deal with the post at hand and forget that you were playing a game from the outset.

Regards
DL

It doesn't matter whether I was playing a game or not. Your thread title has been shown to be in error.

 

[NMSquirrel]

The same way we all control ourselves now.

you started to answer...

With what we know and have learned.

even got a little wisdom in it..

Education and knowledge of good and evil is key just as scripture tries to tell us.

i agree with that but why you bringing scripture into it?

A & E became as Gods

hmm too much to argue with here..pass..

with it but unfortunately, the early church decided to call our elevation a fall so that they could sell salvation for $$$.

i can believe that.

How can an entity with no sexual organs have the necessary knowledge to make the rules for entities who do?

that don't make sense..
it assumes he doesn't have any balls...

Go away fool.

chi? is that you?

 

[Lori_7]

man's law is a necessary evil when it protects us (and doesn't do that great of a job), and it's an unnecessary evil when it oppresses and enslaves us. the whole point is, that if humanity wasn't so fucked up, we wouldn't need protection, and we would not desire to oppress or enslave, and we could be free!

what do we protect ourselves from? what justifies desire for oppression and slavery? greed, lust, envy, gluttony, sloth, pride, and wrath, that's what. if men were not sinners, we wouldn't need man's law, which is a joke btw. as pathetic of an excuse for justice as we are a pathetic excuse for a human race. and as long as we are corrupt, our institutions will also be corrupt.

christ wasn't deemed the fulfillment of the law for no reason. it was because he was without sin. when we are made like him, man's law will become obsolete. god's law will be within us.

 

[jayleew]

man's law is a necessary evil when it protects us (and doesn't do that great of a job), and it's an unnecessary evil when it oppresses and enslaves us. the whole point is, that if humanity wasn't so fucked up, we wouldn't need protection, and we would not desire to oppress or enslave, and we could be free!

what do we protect ourselves from? what justifies desire for oppression and slavery? greed, lust, envy, gluttony, sloth, pride, and wrath, that's what. if men were not sinners, we wouldn't need man's law, which is a joke btw. as pathetic of an excuse for justice as we are a pathetic excuse for a human race. and as long as we are corrupt, our institutions will also be corrupt.

christ wasn't deemed the fulfillment of the law for no reason. it was because he was without sin. when we are made like him, man's law will become obsolete. god's law will be within us.

Humanity is messed up because of evil. Evil must be destroyed before humanity can recover. The crux is that no one can judge evil and good. The best we can hope for is to teach our youth reason, the value of life, and the cherish one another. We have to teach the beauty of what is good.

 

[Lori_7]

Humanity is messed up because of evil. Evil must be destroyed before humanity can recover. The crux is that no one can judge evil and good. The best we can hope for is to teach our youth reason, the value of life, and the cherish one another. We have to teach the beauty of what is good.

god judges evil and good. with the wages of sin being death we have an inherent way of destroying what's wrong with us. immortality to the survival of the fittest i suppose. and to the youth of today, this society is an example of what not to do, so much more than an example of what to do, and this is what we bestow to you.
:bawl: