How many Palestinians were in favor of the intifada? Racism isn't limited to one side, and it's probably a result, not a root cause, of the violence.
Magen David Ambulance Dispatch: “Is it an Arab or a Jew?”
- Thread starter S.A.M.
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Huh? How is the Palestinians nonviolent resistance to oppression which was met with indiscriminate machine gunfire by fanatical European Jews a sign of racism?
I've posted a video in the Norman Finkelstein thread, I suggest you listen to it and stop justifying war crimes.
And I suppose Assoud didn't threaten to eat the Jews on a childrens TV show, doesn't want to return as a tiger when he's martyred, and didn't return to his homeland from Lebanon to liberate it.
I suppose the King of Egypt also didn't state that Jews mix the blood of foreigners into their bread.
You think that having a preference of Jew's for neighbours constitutes racism?
I've lived in a situation where I was the ethnic minority (more than once actually), and let me tell you, based on the way my family and I were treated, I would much rather live in a neighbourhood where I was in the majority.
My point here, is that there is nothing in the context of that blog or this discussion that proves that the question was motivated by racism, it remains an assumption on your part, and on the of the person writing the blog, and by extension, the mother of the child. I don't doubt that it might be a justified assumption under the circumstances, but that doesn't make it a correct one.
You are naive if you think Jews can fight Arabs for 60 or more years and not have some degree of prejudice. You are continuing to complain about superficial issues without recognizing the root cause.
It would be like complaining that American troops were racist for calling the Vietnamese "gooks". It was a product of the situation.
It would be like complaining that American troops were racist for calling the Vietnamese "gooks". It was a product of the situation.
As opposed to Palestinians smuggling bombs in ambulances, blowing up market places (including children), shooting up or stoning ambulances and their paramedics...
See, we could re-hash this ad nauseum, but the simple fact remains that they're both equally racist.
So your answer to occupation genocide murder and racism is - a couple of guys said bad things?
Un-fucking-believable.
Yeah you're right, there is a lotta doubt there is racism. This is a society where "duty=One shot, two kills" and heroes stand by while children in a bombed house within view clutch their parents corpses and wait for water, food and medication which is denied to them for three days
Yeah, its all about security. Sure it is.
How do you think Palestine went from 93% non-Jews to 75% Jews?
Absolute fucking bullshit, although somehow i'm not surprised that, yet again, you would try and misrepresent what I said.
And of course you can prove that it was the MDA rather than the IDF that was responsible for the delay?
And I suppose this didn't happen:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/media/archives/capt.sge.oax58.290503140943.photo00.default-252x384.jpg
And this is so clearly anti zionist:
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/wp-content/images2009/IMG_8567.JPG
And these people obviously have no problem with Israel:
http://www.californiaconservative.org/images/images2/crushisrael.jpg
Again, they're as bad as each other, and they both need to grow up, and start learning to deal with the crap hand they were dealt by the British.
Gasp you're right. A guy dressed in white pretending to be a bomber. Demonstrations in foreign countries? What were they thinking? You think they should have let in the Red Cross after three days? Didn't those kids deserve to die just like the pregnant camel?
Right, and there's no way no how that any of this could possibly foster anti muslim/anti arab/anti palestinian sentiment among the Jews living in Israel, is there?
Yet more of your dishonesty.
Of course I think that the humanitarian aid should have been let in a lot sooner.
This amounts to a red herring on your part. Nothing I have said in this thread demonstrates that I support genocide, in fact, my actions and words elsewhere show the opposite.
Or should I undelete the thread in the chemistry forum asking about the best way to dispose of muslim bodies just to prove my point.
You're assigning me with an agenda that isn't there, and PJdude wonders why I went to such great lengths to distance myself from being pro zionism.
Indeed, I wonder too.
With people saying bad things on television from foreign countries and people holding up signs in more foreign countries, its absolutely crystal clear why the ambulance despatch wanted to know the ethncity of the injured child in Israel occupied Jerusalem.
If only people would stop saying bad things, they wouldn't care if the kid was Arab or Jew. They are forced to not provide medical attention because of all the mean mean things people say. It hurted their feelings :bawl:
See, now you're just being ridiculous and dishonest at the same time.
This post, in it's entirety is a strawman.
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To address this point further.
First off, the british mandate of Palestine included Israel, What is now palestine, and parts of Jordan, however, to simplify things I'm going to just consider Israel and Palestine.
As of (I believe) 2008 Palestine has a population of approximately 4,136,540.
Of which, 75% are Muslim, and 17% are Jewish.
As of 2009 Israel has a population of 7,515,400, of which 5,435,900 are Jewish, and 1,142,000 are Muslim.
This gives, what constitutes most of the British Mandate of Palestine a total population of approximately 11,651,940, of which 4,244,405 are Muslim (or 36%) are muslim, and 6,139,111 (or 53%) being Jewish. which is remarkebly close (5% more Jewish, 9% less muslim) then what you get if you project the population growth statistics from between 1922 and 1947 to today.
Also, and I'm somewhat shocked by this, you seem to have forgotten about the Nakba - you know, when half the Muslims that lived in Israel were forced out of their homes in 1948. You don't think that had a bit of a role to play in the shift in demographics?
So while I don't doubt that Israeli attrocities have had a hand to play in the change in demographics, it's not the only factor.
Sorry Trippy, I'm going to opt out of discussions with you. I just received a warning for flaming for referring to you as a self hating Maori. Since you are easily inflamed and my language is usually blunt, it would be best if I avoided addressing you.
Thanks for the discussion, but I don't do well with easily offended and thin skinned people.
Thanks for the discussion, but I don't do well with easily offended and thin skinned people.
Why are you assuming that I reported the post again? Honestly, I don't recall if I did or didn't, I might have in a rare moment of genuine irascibility :shrug:.
But yeah, now that you mention, I find the term 'Self Hating' mildly inflammatory. I don't hate my maori heritage.
Especially when I've already told you that I dislike your use of the phrase 'Assimilated Maori' to be offensive, and after I've already explained to you that I don't label myself as Maori, as I detailed in my response Post #180.
I don't know how to explain it to you any clearer than that, except possibly to relate it to me calling you a self hating Hindu, but I suspect you lack the capacity to understand the point I'm endeavoring to make here.
I was relating it to the self hating Jew concept. You might want to look that up.
But yeah, I'm not impressed that you're offended at being considered an assimilated Maori. Its your own contention that you identify as a Kiwi
And you're here arguing the justification for racism as things people said. So yeah, I see where you're coming from.
But yeah, I'm not impressed that you're offended at being considered an assimilated Maori. Its your own contention that you identify as a Kiwi
And you're here arguing the justification for racism as things people said. So yeah, I see where you're coming from.
I guessed as much.
I don't care if you're impressed or not. And you're right, it is my own contention that I identify as Kiwi so what right do you have to tell me what I am, and am not? I mean seriously.
Look, it's plainly obvious you're clueless in this regard.
As I have explained to you, for the third time now, I don't identify myself as an assimilated maori, because I don't identify myself by my maori heritage, anymore than I identify myself with any other part of heritage. In order to identify myself as an assimilated maori, I must first identify myself as Maori, but I don't. For the fourth time, I don't identify with any particular aspect of my heritage, why not? Because I can see the Maori influences in the family values that I was raised with, and possibly my attitude towards ownership and possessions. I can trace my Whakapapa, and it happens to have some mana associated with it? Big deal - are you going to start treating me with respect just because I can trace my French ancestry back to an individual responsible for bringing the Koran to Europe, and fostering a better understanding? I can trace my Maori ancestry back to some time before 1300? Big deal I can trace my French ancestry back to 1080 (or so).
Strawman.
Fabrication.
My point was simply that racism is being perpetuated on both sides of the border.
My point was simply that fostering racism on one side of the border is going to encourage racism on the other side of the border.
My point was that there will never be peace in the middle east as long as both sides are teaching the children to hate the other side, and teaching their children that the other side has no right to be there.
My point was that you can't critiscize the israelies for being racist without also considering that the palestinians are teaching their children to be racist. Likewise, by extension, people should not critiscize the palestinians for being racist, without also considering that the isralies are teaching their children to be racist.
The fact that you are trying so desperately to misrepresent what I have said is, quite frankly, sickening at best.
And I disagree, if a Holocaust survivor says bad things about Nazis, its not the same thing as the Nazis making antisemitic pronouncements
Its not a comparable equation. You would not say to an Auschwitz survivor, you're also racist towards the Germans.
Ignoring the sentiments of persons under violent military occupation is not rational thinking.
clearly
I disagree.
My grandfather fought in World War II, I considered him racist, but I didn't hold it against him, because I didn't take it out of the context of his experiences.
You might have a point if I was ignoring anything however :Shrug:
Tell me something S.A.M. What do you think would have happened if the British had not re-created Israel in 1947?
My personal opinion is that because the British mandate of 'No more than 30%' would have fallen by the wayside, I think that the Ashkenza Jew's would have continued emigrating (both legally and illegally) into Palestine, I think that eventually things would have reached the point where war erupted, that would have resulted in a Jewish state emerging, and we'd still be in the same place we are now - at war, with attrocities being commited by both sides. I also think that the only reason this didn't happen sooner was because of the influence of the Ottoman Empire.
Go ahead, feel free to misrepresent that statement, but we both know that in the cotext of the conversation I meant that I don't exclusively identify with my maori heritage, or identify with it any stronger than any other part of my heritage.
If the British had not armed and funded the European Jews, if the United Nations had not handed over the Palestinian land to them, if the United States had not supported with advanced weaponry the Jewish aggression against the natives, then Palestinians would not have cared about Jewish immigration
They had no problem with Jewish immigration, [see King Crane Commission report 1919] they still don't [see Palestinian offer to give citizenship to all Jews settled in the OPT]. All they want are their rights on their land.
As a Kiwi who pops into discussions about Maori identity, you should know what that means.
They had no problem with Jewish immigration, [see King Crane Commission report 1919] they still don't [see Palestinian offer to give citizenship to all Jews settled in the OPT]. All they want are their rights on their land.
As a Kiwi who pops into discussions about Maori identity, you should know what that means.
I don't disagree in principle, or funadmentally disagree with any of the above.
One can not also discount the cold war, and the actions of the Soviets in exacerbating the issue, it's a scenario that's been played out many times elsewhere in the world, where the Americans and Russians have incited opposing populations in the same region to violence against each other.
Quite, and at no point have I questioned the right of the Palestinian Muslims to be there have I?
(Incidentaly I also don't agree with all of the Maori claims that have been put to the Waitangi tribunal, I consider some of them spurious and divisive).