Not going out for dinner after all, so...
Welcome to my malicious reply. Yes, I am the evil Cheezle. You on the other hand are a truly, maybe overly caring individual. I picture Crocodile Dundee in the Bronx. Hug a stranger there an lose your limbs. I think I prefer something in-between, but closer to the Bronx than you.
I didn't mean to imply you
were malicious in your game playing with others here, I just wanted to cautioned that it
could become malicious so easily. Careful, that's all.
I really have to object to your claiming that my views are inculcation. I have explained that my Science background is pretty minimal. I do sometimes reread a science article a couple times, but that is just because one read often misses some aspects. It isn't like I am chanting orthodox formulae for hours and hours. Om mani padme om and all that crap.
Any literature and textbook (school and since), and current 'peer' and 'authority' posters you read here and elsewhere, will subconsciously inculcate you if you don't put up your 'filters' of skeptical challenge to every aspect of 'orthodoxy' and 'glib explanations' which are not explanations but parroted learned-by-rote assumptive interpretations of the phenomena according to preconclusionary orthodoxy which we all operate from subconsciously UNLES we make a conscious effort to question everything. Since you have had no obvious impulse to challenge authority or question any of your subconscious assumptions based in orthodoxy to which you have been exposed, then you are by default mired in inculcated assumptions in your every perspective. It's how open you have been to fair and polite discourse that will tell whether you remain so or not for long. Let's hope for the best!
Where a person draws the line between reality and abstraction is actually pretty arbitrary. For instance, Plato in his cave analogy, seems to claim that everything outside of the mind is abstracted. Perhaps on the other side of that abstraction is another reality, but the medium in-between is abstracted. I see his point. Though if you extrapolate the idea you can wind up a solipsist. And that is clearly not a useful view. But in some way, all our experience is taken from abstraction. That is why we experience space and time in a Newtonian way. We never experience objects moving at relativistic speeds, and that is a good thing. Our brains learn (inculcate) to believe that everything is euclidean and newtonian. But it isn't. Experiments tell us that.
Nothing 'arbitrary' about it, mate. The conventional theories ARE constructed of labels and abstractions from the underlying reality processes/entities which they were designed to calculate/analyze and predict etc in symbolic ways that are useful but not THE reality itself.
No-one "draws a line arbitrarily" between abstraction and reality. It is either treating reality as itself, or treating it as abstractions like I explained already. The math/geom/statistical theories are abstract constructs which are MUTE as to the underlying reality. I want to bridge the gap between abstractions and the reality from which said abstractions are conveniently and usefully made. That is, a complete TOE which has not yet issued from the professional ranks because their partial/limited domain/theories are all abstractions which cannot be unified as they stand because there is no 'reality bridge' between them provided yet by the professionals after 100+ years of abstractions upon abstraction. Someone had to try something radically different from orthodoxy, don't you think?
I want to say something about your energy/space aether idea here but I can't because you have not written it yet. But I think it was a really good point.
Sarcasm between friends is ok, but it's never a substitute for actually thinking. The only reason my energy-space aspect was mentioned is to demonstrate where your own abstractions don't reach...down to the most fundamental levels of the reality. You insist on arguing from abstractions perspective and I naturally counter with reality perspective so as to give you pause to think. If you can do that for yourself, you will come to the reality perspective yourself, and will better understand all the surrounding complexity/subtle of what is being discussed in any subject area of the physically real universal phenomena. You have the intellect and I hope the willing to do it for yourself, mate; why need you wait upon me or others to do it for you? Forget me and my TOE. Go for it yourself and see what happens. More fun than playing baiting/sarcastic games on the internet (at least it is for anyone mature enough to have learned a few things in a long and full life).
I understand categorical logic. Apples and oranges in your common understanding. I understand the hierarchy of the categories in mazulu's theory. And I have made arguments as to why it is like a brain malfunction. Serendipity has its place. But I am not sure Science is one of those places. Not as an approach anyway. When it does happen in science it is ... well, serendipitous. Accidental, not purposeful. Trying every combination of ideas to try and get a hit, is not a productive or reasonable way to do science.
Have you never heard of 'brainstorming a problem' in scientific, technical and social etc issues? It is designed to sweep away the cobwebs of inculcation and subconscious 'rut following' which stymies advances from the status quo.
Moreover, have you never heard of 'pure research' for its own sake irrespective of what may 'fall out' that could prove useful?
And have you never heard of 'undirected research/experiment/invention' which may be essentially 'solutions in search of a problem'?
You have a lot to learn about not being 'exclusionary' and 'defeatist' and 'pedantic' and (yes, sarcastic) about such other avenues for advancing the status quo and getting out of the rut formed by too long acquaintance with 'herd mentality' mileu'.
Break out of that rut, mate. Live dangerously and think and brainstorm it for yourself. Don't worry about playing games with people you don't know anything about. Just do it for yourself. Good luck.
yes, I understand. You are just being a big brother to someone you feel is being picked on. I was never picked on is school so I guess I don't understand how you guys feel about it. But being odd on purpose is a way to invite the behavior. When someone tells me they have been talking to space aliens I just can't help myself. And I am pretty sure that Mazulu knew that such talk would encourage such behavior. Does that excuse my belittling of space alien contactees? No, but it is so fun I can't help myself.
If you've never been picked on at school then congratulations. I hope you weren't one of the bullies though! If not, don't start now, hey?
As for what people say, it's no business of mine as long as they aren't infringing on anyone's rights and freedoms. I'm sure you have said quite a few things which others may not have liked to hear. So what? Live and let live....unless the 'bully' in one gets the better of one, hey? Be careful, that's all, and be tolerant and less sarcastic and perhaps things will make more sense if you actually take note of all the subtle subtext and context.
Duh! That is what I have been trying to do. To get Mazulu to clarify his statements. And to help him adjust to reality. He is in transition right now. Or so we can hope.
He has again and again done exactly that. But you seem pre-occupied with sarcastic game-playing and just won't listen. Where does that put you in the game? The heedless silly game-player more interested in having his 'insensitive fun' than in science discourse. Not a good position from which to keep criticizing others, now is it?
blah, blah, blah. I believe that I have said that space and time are not abstractions. I wrote a little post on why even nothingness (not the same as empty space) is not an abstraction. The only real abstractions are the handles or references we use to talk about them with. And as I said, you can draw the line of abstraction|reality where ever you wish. You can choose to abstract everything. I don't know where you draw that line because you have not written your TOE. So your "no dog in this race" makes me wonder why you even bother here. We don't know what your position is. Only that you think that we should all embrace serendipity. And hug each other.
How easily I could use that "blah, bla, blah" cheap shot to characterize YOUR posts lately, but I am not into that sort of disrespect for both the poster and the post. My advice: correct that tendency before you turn into something your parents won't like about you.
And all you have offered IS still abstractions and labels from the reality which underlies all these labels and abstractions, as I already explained in an earlier paragraph above.
yada yada yada, already talked about the abstraction thing. Gravity... QM is predictive... statistical models... gravity is not part of it ... blah, blah, blah.
You make funny sounds, but no real sense there. Just because you're in 'hands over your ears' denial mode about what I explained in that post, it doesn't make the fact of it go away. Denial is not a good sign in a would-be scientist and/or objective thinker and observer.
And again, I could easily resort to "yada yada yada" right back at you, I will not do it because I am not of your present mindset to ignore and play games etc. Have fun. But leave me out of your denial and sarcasm games. Thanks.
not much interesting there. Sorry if my posts were not really exactly on topic. I tend to just scan your writing so that I don't get inculcated by the constant droning repetition of your ... non-written TOE and perhaps disingenuous huggy attitude.
That's the problem around here: biased reading or NOT READING at all before the buffoons pretending to be 'scientists' and 'resident experts' open there mouths to comment/deride something which they have no idea what is being said. Class acts, all of them! (now that warranted some sarcasm...and by the way, a word of advice: sarcasm is more effective if used sparingly so as not to give the impression that that's all you have left in the intellect locker 'up top').
Que sera sera!
Oops, I thought that was the end. It isn't that I don't want to hear about your TOE. But I don't know what your TOE is. If I talked about what I think it is, then you would have to point out all the differences between my impression of your TOE and what it really is. So, without the labels and abstraction, I really don't know what you are saying. I have to fill in the blanks with something.
I never asked you or anyone to discuss my TOE. The only time it is alluded to in the conversation is when it became necessary to differentiate Mazulu's 'medium' from mine; and when it became necessary to point out the different approaches towards TOE: your ad hoc abstractions based approach and my from scratch reality based starting point approach. The rest is of your construction, not mine.
Wisdom comes with the years experience and with the independent use of your noggin. Humanity comes with understanding of what empathy means. Science and knowledge comes from challenging the status quo orthodoxy, always. There are no exceptions or easy alternatives to this. Have you learned that yet?
Just as you like to play sarcastic games with Mazulu, I prefer to ply 'wise up' games with those whose future humanity and science understandings are at a critical point which could so easily be put on the wrong track by the usual mod-troll types infesting the internet. I can only do what I can to warn you and others of that danger to your own objectivity and humanity. Good night again, Cheezle.
Over and out!