Lucifer
- Thread starter Adam
- Start date
I said Christian not Catholic. I'm interested about why you are trying to seperate the two, considering all branches of Christianity are splinter groups off Catholicism. You are trying to blame all the bad stereotypes of Christians on Catholics while worshipping every word of a book their founders put together. Very interesting indeed.
Adam, you circus-loving member of the dark minions ...
However, within that mythology is also the idea that one does not achieve "freedom" through Satan. Rather, Satan grants a certain amount of playful liberty and then you become an eternal slave. Haven't you ever read Faust?
(Incidentally, I prefer Marlowe's version of the tale.)
If Satan is, like other religious phantasms, a human creation reflecting history, psyche, ad nauseam, I think the point becomes more than simply interesting. After all, if Satan is an expression of fear, well, we're still looking at the world alright, because it is a human problem to worship fear, and it is a human problem to fear knowledge, freedom, and the changes that come with such virtues.
thanx,
Tiassa
Welcome to Satanism. What I mean by that is that you've experienced a basic realization about religion that is similar to the point arrived at by Anton LaVey, a high-school dropout circus worker who decided to start the church he figured everybody wanted to go to, as opposed to the one they felt like they must go to.
However, within that mythology is also the idea that one does not achieve "freedom" through Satan. Rather, Satan grants a certain amount of playful liberty and then you become an eternal slave. Haven't you ever read Faust?
(Incidentally, I prefer Marlowe's version of the tale.)If Satan is, like other religious phantasms, a human creation reflecting history, psyche, ad nauseam, I think the point becomes more than simply interesting. After all, if Satan is an expression of fear, well, we're still looking at the world alright, because it is a human problem to worship fear, and it is a human problem to fear knowledge, freedom, and the changes that come with such virtues.
thanx,
Tiassa
Originally posted by Ekimklaw
In a way it looks like the hand of God. And regarding atheist thought, it probably is.
-Mike
Fuggin great one Mike!
I can just see god giving us all the finger. Either for what we've done with it all, or just coz he/she/it is an arse-hole like me.
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Angelus
My recommendation: if he gets too annoying have a doctrine fight with him; he will lose. He always does.
For instance, Tony1 on Catholics and Catholicism. Enjoy. A brief sample (he's been at this for a while):
• What difference does the Catholic definition of "soul" make in a debate about Christianity? (I'm Not Afraid of Anything, 3.31.01)
• The Catholic Church tells you NOT to believe the Bible .... (Crumbling the Foundations of Christianity, 7.29.01)
• She wasn't, and as far as I can tell, never claimed to be Christian. She was Roman Catholic, and as far as I can tell, she did claim to be Catholic. (Against AntiChrist Doctrine, 7.29.01)
Just a few to start. But the separation of Christianity and Catholicism seems essential to his position. Insofar as I can tell after dealing with him for over a year, Tony1 needs to separate Christianity from Catholicism so that he can imagine that much less poor result from Christian faith.
I guess it's what's important to him.
thanx,
Tiassa
Get used to it, Angelus. T1 gets very sensitive about Catholicism. He really seems to despise the church, but can't ever seem to put any real effort into his bashing. I don't mind his hateful anti-Catholicism or his trembling avoidance of intellectual issues, except that he really does seem to believe he's making a strong case for Christian faith.
My recommendation: if he gets too annoying have a doctrine fight with him; he will lose. He always does.
For instance, Tony1 on Catholics and Catholicism. Enjoy. A brief sample (he's been at this for a while):
• What difference does the Catholic definition of "soul" make in a debate about Christianity? (I'm Not Afraid of Anything, 3.31.01)
• The Catholic Church tells you NOT to believe the Bible .... (Crumbling the Foundations of Christianity, 7.29.01)
• She wasn't, and as far as I can tell, never claimed to be Christian. She was Roman Catholic, and as far as I can tell, she did claim to be Catholic. (Against AntiChrist Doctrine, 7.29.01)
Just a few to start. But the separation of Christianity and Catholicism seems essential to his position. Insofar as I can tell after dealing with him for over a year, Tony1 needs to separate Christianity from Catholicism so that he can imagine that much less poor result from Christian faith.
I guess it's what's important to him.
thanx,
Tiassa
You know, a part of the problem with these religious (christian) debates, as i see it, is that BOTH sides can quote from the bible at will to prove a point.
So what the hell use is this book anyway, if it can be quoted from at will to make a point for or against? Why bloody bother even trying?
Buggered if I'm gonna read it... sounds like a huge waste of my time. no, wait, I'm lying a little... I've read bits of it. You know, the bits where people are getting wiped out and erased and all that... good old mayhem, usually at the hands of the old testament god (now wasn't HE an intolerant bastard?), and the interesting bits like revelations and genesis. everything in between pretty much bored me to tears.
Point of this ramble is... who the fuck CARES if the snake was the devil or not? is it, cosmically speaking, all that important? the bible has been shown on numerous occasions to be, if not a complete work of fiction, then at least wildly hypocritical and self-contradicting.
quite frankly, people debating about the meaning of this that and the other reminds of a group of uni students debating the authors intention in writing this particular passage of a "classic" novel on the lawn at lunchtime.... no matter what points you make, no matter what "facts" you have at hand, you'll never bloody well know for certain because you CANNOT delve into the mind of the writer himself.
So what the hell use is this book anyway, if it can be quoted from at will to make a point for or against? Why bloody bother even trying?
Buggered if I'm gonna read it... sounds like a huge waste of my time. no, wait, I'm lying a little... I've read bits of it. You know, the bits where people are getting wiped out and erased and all that... good old mayhem, usually at the hands of the old testament god (now wasn't HE an intolerant bastard?), and the interesting bits like revelations and genesis. everything in between pretty much bored me to tears.
Point of this ramble is... who the fuck CARES if the snake was the devil or not? is it, cosmically speaking, all that important? the bible has been shown on numerous occasions to be, if not a complete work of fiction, then at least wildly hypocritical and self-contradicting.
quite frankly, people debating about the meaning of this that and the other reminds of a group of uni students debating the authors intention in writing this particular passage of a "classic" novel on the lawn at lunchtime.... no matter what points you make, no matter what "facts" you have at hand, you'll never bloody well know for certain because you CANNOT delve into the mind of the writer himself.
The answer is quite simple, easy to understand and accept.. Although it obviously doesnt mean you HAVE to accept it.. However it is quite easy to chew no matter what side you believe in or even if you do not have a side- ect.
Lucifer is Satans HEAD General.. Main guy.. Whether it be for just this world.. Or for all the worlds of the universe.. Or even all universes? -Insignificant.. Lucifer is simply Satans right hand man as Jesus is considered in many faiths as Gods right hand man. He is supposed to return for judgement and sits on the right hand of Gods thrown ect ect. "My opinion of the truth doesnt matter" Either way Jesus is Gods General or same type position according to many faiths and the Bible. Its possible that Lucifer is Gods exiled "son" but on an angelic/spiritual level. Notice the Bible says Jesus is Gods only "begotten" son.. The word "begotten" is the KEY word there.. Meaning born or woman or flesh. "Born , woman, flesh- keywords" Maybe Lucifer is Gods exiled son "for rebelling against God. What better being/person would Satan chose than one of Gods on exiled sons. "Lucifer" of light.. of the brightest most bold and brilliant/beautiful. Thats precisely what Lucifer means. So even more so Satan would make Lucifer his general because Lucifer "was" Gods brightest angelic-son. I do not at this time "if ever" intend any expression here in reference to chosing a side. I do have one.. But thats my own business.
Lucifer is Satans HEAD General.. Main guy.. Whether it be for just this world.. Or for all the worlds of the universe.. Or even all universes? -Insignificant.. Lucifer is simply Satans right hand man as Jesus is considered in many faiths as Gods right hand man. He is supposed to return for judgement and sits on the right hand of Gods thrown ect ect. "My opinion of the truth doesnt matter" Either way Jesus is Gods General or same type position according to many faiths and the Bible. Its possible that Lucifer is Gods exiled "son" but on an angelic/spiritual level. Notice the Bible says Jesus is Gods only "begotten" son.. The word "begotten" is the KEY word there.. Meaning born or woman or flesh. "Born , woman, flesh- keywords" Maybe Lucifer is Gods exiled son "for rebelling against God. What better being/person would Satan chose than one of Gods on exiled sons. "Lucifer" of light.. of the brightest most bold and brilliant/beautiful. Thats precisely what Lucifer means. So even more so Satan would make Lucifer his general because Lucifer "was" Gods brightest angelic-son. I do not at this time "if ever" intend any expression here in reference to chosing a side. I do have one.. But thats my own business.
celtic origin
Registered Member
Adam said:
If you have google read about the sumerians perseption on Lucifer.
Lucifer is not an actual being neither is God they are just different ways of doing things ie. going in and robbing a bank threatening someones life and then using money for your own needs (LUCIFER) Going getting a job and earning money by your own skills and then going on to help people that way (GOD) .
In other words they are just different mindsets and I will not believe anything else until I see Lucifer or God walk in my bedroom and tell me something magical .
Some people are so gullable and until you see something with your own eyes do not believe it .
The reasons we believe in heaven and hell is because we see birds flying around most humans wish they could fly (ANGELS) and the earths core is hot because of the equator .
One other thing completely of subject if the worlds core is so hot when the sun goes out in thousands of years we could use it as the source of energy obviously if LUCIFER lets us.(HA HA HA)