Louis and the Nazis.
- Thread starter outlandish
- Start date
I will, as soon as you name the white power bands on that list. Hell, why don't you name a few white power bands that have recording contracts with major record labels or have had a video played on MTV (not counting something that may have appeared on a hate-crime awareness show).
When did I ever say that white people shouldn't go to rap concerts? If that's the music they like, fine. There are even a few rap songs I think are good.
My point is that people make such a big deal about white power music that is performed by bands that normal people have never heard of, who sing songs that normal people will never hear, and release albums that will never be sold in a normal music store. Then these same people ignore violent and racist rap songs performed by artists who are much more mainstream (I don't listen to much rap, but even I've heard of most of the rappers/rap groups on that list I posted).
I just don't like the double standard.
Some of it is, some of it isn't.
I never even noticed that post the first time.
When I read the quote you just posted, I thought to myself, "Where the hell did that come from?" I had to scroll back to find it.
My bad.
Anyway, I haven't seen any studies on real-world effects of hate music, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if people who like a certain kind of music were more likely to engage in the behavior promoted by that music. But this is a "chicken and egg" scenario, since we have to ask ourselves, "What came first: the hate and violence or the music that celebrates it?"
well perhaps it is important that we do. (ask ourselves that is) after all if tower records started carrying nazi music and synagogues started burning down by the dozen. it is kinda obvious that, apart from the rapper slayings and perhaps some black on black gang violence associated with some mafia like rap labels, there is no....."lets rise up and fuck whitey" deal with rap. on the other hand....?
thoughts?
*nation of islam does not qualify as a hate org?
thoughts?
*nation of islam does not qualify as a hate org?
I think it's important that we ask ourselves that, if for no other reason than to find out what makes people tick. But I can't help but believe that anyone who would burn down buildings or kill people because racial hatred would probably be doing this with or without the "inspirational" music.
The "kill whitey" nonsense isn't nearly as popular now as it used to be. Rap seems to be focusing more on the party lifestyle these days. I don't know why the change in themes. Maybe it's the political climate, or because many rappers are becoming television and movie stars and it's bad for business to sing songs celebrating the murder of your target audience. Teenagers may fall for that, but a middle-aged adult is probably less likely to.
But back when the "kill whitey" themes were most common, some of these rappers were very popular and got quite a bit of air/video play, and you didn't hear the media making all that big a deal about it. And I'm pretty sure you can still get these popular, older "hate" albums at normal record stores. It's only when white hate music started to grow in popularity that I noticed any real mainstream media attention.
Are you asking me because you think it does or because you think it doesn't? There have been some prominent rappers who have made positive references to the Nation Of Islam and/or Louis Farrakhan.
But I can't help but believe that anyone who would burn down buildings or kill people because racial hatred would probably be doing this with or without the "inspirational" music.
excellent point. the music is just incidental to the hatred that is already there. of course it is possible that it exacerbates an existing condition but that really isnt the focus
The "kill whitey" nonsense isn't nearly as popular now as it used to be.
again my angle was.... did this stuff cause people to go out committing hate crimes.
Are you asking me because you think it does or because you think it doesn't?
at the moment i am soliciting your opinion. i brought up noi cos when i asked you to elaborate on "black supremacist thought (galt)." you made no response. i just wondered why you failed to even bring up noi. it certainly has had a chequered past. i am not quite up to date on current stance. i think it renounced stuff
excellent point. the music is just incidental to the hatred that is already there. of course it is possible that it exacerbates an existing condition but that really isnt the focus
The "kill whitey" nonsense isn't nearly as popular now as it used to be.
again my angle was.... did this stuff cause people to go out committing hate crimes.
Are you asking me because you think it does or because you think it doesn't?
at the moment i am soliciting your opinion. i brought up noi cos when i asked you to elaborate on "black supremacist thought (galt)." you made no response. i just wondered why you failed to even bring up noi. it certainly has had a chequered past. i am not quite up to date on current stance. i think it renounced stuff
I beg your pardon???
funny you are not.
I agree. And what could we do about it, anyway? Censorship? I wouldn't be in favor of that.
I don't know. I could look for black-on-white crime statistics, but that really doesn't tell us anything other than raw numbers.
But it all brings us back to the point I made earlier about the "chicken and egg" nature of the this discussion. Normal people wouldn't be driven to rape, robbery, murder and arson by music. There has to be pre-existing hatred or mental instability.
I am not completely up to date on Nation Of Islam thought either, but last time I gave it any thought I considered them to be a hate group. The ADL and Southern Poverty Law Center - not that I'm a huge fan of either group - seem to agree with my assessment.
EDIT: I should mention that over the last few decades the Ku Klux Klan seems to have toned down its message, but does that really change the nature of the organization or the basis for their beliefs?
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Galt:
Originally posted by Bells
Isn't it nice to know, that even though we have Governments starting wars out of oil and hate where innocent people are dying on a daily basis, innocent suburbia can still breed racism in such extremes.
Galt:
There are racist people all over the place. Suburbia, the inner cities, black, white, hispanic and Asian.
first identify the essence, nature and cause and effect of said racisms, your comparitive analogy is slightly fallacious and off the mark. You compare the essence of white racist/supremist theory/ideology and the actions of such ideology within a historical context and compare it with "racist" attitudes amongst non whites?? You compare fallacious anthropological rhetoric and false political ideology propegated by many of the white race which has resulted in the brutalisation oppression and injustice perpetrated against non whites over 100s of years and equate it to a slight "non liking" by some non whites of whites??? The two are absolutely non comparable.
Originally posted by Bells
Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside that while you could be sitting in front of the TV watching Friends, your neighbour could be lighting candles and saying "Hail Hitler" at the same time.
galt:
It doesn't make me feel any warmer or fuzzier than the thought of kids listening to rap songs that vilify white people, promote abuse of women, talk about burning down Korean grocery stores, etc.
again fallacious line of argument in your comparitive analogy. You take nazism within the historical context and ramifications and compare it with rap music??????!!! LMAO come on.
Originally posted by Bells
And if you're black, jewish, asian, muslim, actually anything other than a WASP, that warm fuzzy feeling could be really real as you could be the next BBQ on a cross as your dear neighbour decides to act out what is preached to them.
galt:
See my above comment.
and see mine.
Originally posted by Bells
Ahhhh life in the suburbs, there's nothing like it is there, especially for the non-WASP individual.
galt:
Media bias and political correctness tells us to pretend that non-whites are always the victims and never the source of bigotry.
media bias? which media? against whom??
Political correctness is a red herring that is used to detract from the real debate and issues, and take it off at a tangent which mitigates the argument of those against racism, so lets leave PC out of this for the moment.
PC tell us to pretend X Y Z?? well your brain and a modicum of historical knowledge TELLs you even more strongly the truth of racism/white supremecy fallacy that has been propegated over centuries.
Originally posted by Bells
You washing the car on a saturday morning, kids riding their bikes down the street, the little neo nazi kiddies riding away singing neo nazi nursery rhymes such as "burn black man burn" as you use your garden hose to put out the burning cross on your lawn
galt:
Is that any worse than kids listening to and singing along with rap songs promoting hateful messages?
yes. see if you can figure out why, if not i'll be more than happy to explain it to you
Originally posted by Bells
Isn't it nice to know, that even though we have Governments starting wars out of oil and hate where innocent people are dying on a daily basis, innocent suburbia can still breed racism in such extremes.
Galt:
There are racist people all over the place. Suburbia, the inner cities, black, white, hispanic and Asian.
first identify the essence, nature and cause and effect of said racisms, your comparitive analogy is slightly fallacious and off the mark. You compare the essence of white racist/supremist theory/ideology and the actions of such ideology within a historical context and compare it with "racist" attitudes amongst non whites?? You compare fallacious anthropological rhetoric and false political ideology propegated by many of the white race which has resulted in the brutalisation oppression and injustice perpetrated against non whites over 100s of years and equate it to a slight "non liking" by some non whites of whites??? The two are absolutely non comparable.
Originally posted by Bells
Doesn't it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside that while you could be sitting in front of the TV watching Friends, your neighbour could be lighting candles and saying "Hail Hitler" at the same time.
galt:
It doesn't make me feel any warmer or fuzzier than the thought of kids listening to rap songs that vilify white people, promote abuse of women, talk about burning down Korean grocery stores, etc.
again fallacious line of argument in your comparitive analogy. You take nazism within the historical context and ramifications and compare it with rap music??????!!! LMAO come on.
Originally posted by Bells
And if you're black, jewish, asian, muslim, actually anything other than a WASP, that warm fuzzy feeling could be really real as you could be the next BBQ on a cross as your dear neighbour decides to act out what is preached to them.
galt:
See my above comment.
and see mine.
Originally posted by Bells
Ahhhh life in the suburbs, there's nothing like it is there, especially for the non-WASP individual.
galt:
Media bias and political correctness tells us to pretend that non-whites are always the victims and never the source of bigotry.
media bias? which media? against whom??
Political correctness is a red herring that is used to detract from the real debate and issues, and take it off at a tangent which mitigates the argument of those against racism, so lets leave PC out of this for the moment.
PC tell us to pretend X Y Z?? well your brain and a modicum of historical knowledge TELLs you even more strongly the truth of racism/white supremecy fallacy that has been propegated over centuries.
Originally posted by Bells
You washing the car on a saturday morning, kids riding their bikes down the street, the little neo nazi kiddies riding away singing neo nazi nursery rhymes such as "burn black man burn" as you use your garden hose to put out the burning cross on your lawn
galt:
Is that any worse than kids listening to and singing along with rap songs promoting hateful messages?
yes. see if you can figure out why, if not i'll be more than happy to explain it to you
Re: Galt:
Yes, let's identify the cause...
How about a black person who hates me because I'm white, despite the fact that I haven't done anything to any black people? What is the cause? What did I, as an individual, do to warrant this hatred? What did my parents, friends or some two year old toddler do to deserve the hateful thoughts this person has for them?
Maybe the black person in this hypothetical situation hates all white people because of the real or perceived traits of some white people. But if that's the case, it's no more or less wrong than when white people do the same to blacks, hispanics, Asians or Arabs.
Racism is based on making generalizations about entire groups of people (all blacks are criminals, are whites are racist, etc.).
The fact that Nazis in Europe used their ideology to inspire and justify atrocities (against non-blacks, mind you), doesn't excuse non-white racism against whites or change the simple fact that racism is racism.
A few points:
1) Fallacious rhetoric is fallacious rhetoric, whether it's some skinhead claiming that all blacks are physically or mentally inferior or some black nationalist claiming that all whites are racist, evil, "devils", or are trying to keep blacks down.
2) Inherited guilt is nonsense. I'm not responsible for things other people did in the past or are doing today just because they happened to have the same color skin as I do.
3) You can't seriously believe that anti-white sentiments by non-whites are never more severe than a "slight non liking".
I'm comparing music motivated by one brand of racial hatred to music motivated by other brands of racial hatred.
Has Nazism resulted in more death and destruction that non-white racism against whites? Absolutely, but not because non-white racism is less wrong, but because non-whites historically have not been in power in nations with any sizeable white populations.
I'm talking about mainstream media bias when it comes to reporting crimes where race (or even sexual orientation) can be a factor; of ignoring some stories of crime and/or bigotry when other, similar crimes are blabbered about for days or even weeks.
Political correctness can be a red herring, but it isn't always and it isn't now. Christ; this whole thread reeks of political correctness. Why did hateful messages in music only become a national crisis with it started coming from obscure, crappy, white power bands?
I agree that white supremecy is wrong, but it's irrelevant to my point that hate coming from other racial groups is often given a free pass by the same people who shit their pants over some dickhead with a swastika tattoo singing lousy rock songs.
It's only worse if you are arguing from hypocritical viewpoint.
Is racism wrong?
If the answer is yes, then there is no justification for hating an entire group of people.
If the answer is no, then why did you start this thread?
Yes, let's identify the cause...
How about a black person who hates me because I'm white, despite the fact that I haven't done anything to any black people? What is the cause? What did I, as an individual, do to warrant this hatred? What did my parents, friends or some two year old toddler do to deserve the hateful thoughts this person has for them?
Maybe the black person in this hypothetical situation hates all white people because of the real or perceived traits of some white people. But if that's the case, it's no more or less wrong than when white people do the same to blacks, hispanics, Asians or Arabs.
Racism is based on making generalizations about entire groups of people (all blacks are criminals, are whites are racist, etc.).
The fact that Nazis in Europe used their ideology to inspire and justify atrocities (against non-blacks, mind you), doesn't excuse non-white racism against whites or change the simple fact that racism is racism.
A few points:
1) Fallacious rhetoric is fallacious rhetoric, whether it's some skinhead claiming that all blacks are physically or mentally inferior or some black nationalist claiming that all whites are racist, evil, "devils", or are trying to keep blacks down.
2) Inherited guilt is nonsense. I'm not responsible for things other people did in the past or are doing today just because they happened to have the same color skin as I do.
3) You can't seriously believe that anti-white sentiments by non-whites are never more severe than a "slight non liking".
I'm comparing music motivated by one brand of racial hatred to music motivated by other brands of racial hatred.
Has Nazism resulted in more death and destruction that non-white racism against whites? Absolutely, but not because non-white racism is less wrong, but because non-whites historically have not been in power in nations with any sizeable white populations.
I'm talking about mainstream media bias when it comes to reporting crimes where race (or even sexual orientation) can be a factor; of ignoring some stories of crime and/or bigotry when other, similar crimes are blabbered about for days or even weeks.
Political correctness can be a red herring, but it isn't always and it isn't now. Christ; this whole thread reeks of political correctness. Why did hateful messages in music only become a national crisis with it started coming from obscure, crappy, white power bands?
I agree that white supremecy is wrong, but it's irrelevant to my point that hate coming from other racial groups is often given a free pass by the same people who shit their pants over some dickhead with a swastika tattoo singing lousy rock songs.
It's only worse if you are arguing from hypocritical viewpoint.
Is racism wrong?
If the answer is yes, then there is no justification for hating an entire group of people.
If the answer is no, then why did you start this thread?
I'm sure they will.
Nothing like the truth to shatter politiclly correct assumptions, eh?
And ah - here's some real "hate music":
http://www.tightrope.cc/rap.htm
Nothing like the truth to shatter politiclly correct assumptions, eh?
And ah - here's some real "hate music":
http://www.tightrope.cc/rap.htm
I'd do the research, but I am not really interested. However, the 'devils" on the page as referred to by Ice T, ODB, etc refer to racist cops, not caucasians in general.
One, there is no double standard because there is NO rap artist on a major label, whose music is sold in a "normal music store" that preaches violence, hatred, and the like against all races non-black. I wonder if the fucking morons in Angry Aryans even understand the intricacies of the associated morphological limitations encountered in a definition of race. Most of these bands merely exploit teens seeking an identity because they are insecure.
Name one that was not, with an artist that is on a major label, and whose music is sold in a "normal" store.
Xev, Galt...
LOL. I couldn't help but laugh when I went to that stupid website. I have yet to see a worse attempt at propaganda. That supposedly intelligent people can buy into that shit makes me want to kill more of you. Almost everything fucking quote is taken out of context.
For instnace:
Kill the white people; we gonna make them hurt; kill the white people; but buy my record first; ha, ha, ha";
"Kill d'White People"; --Apache, Apache Ain't Shit, 1993, Tommy Boy Music, Time Warner, USA.
If you think this is anti white, you are obviously a moron devoid of any understanding of sarcasm or the sardonic.
Denver, CO- A white female teenager, Brandy DuvaI, is raped, sodomized, tortured with a broomstick and stabbed 28 times by a gang of six blacks and Hispanics. Her skull is caved in and corpse dumped into a ditch. Police confiscate a blood soaked mattress as evidence. The murder trial started on the same day as the James Byrd trial
What relevance? Propaganda.
Now this especially makes me sick:
"These devils make me sick; I love to fill them full of holes; kill them all in the daytime, broad motherfucking daylight; 12 o'clock, grab the Glock; why wait for night";
"Sweatin Bullets"; --Brand Nubian, Everything Is Everything, 1994, Elektra Entertainment, Warner Communications, Time Warner, USA.
What?????? Brand Nubian?
Here is the entire verse:
I'm sweatin motherfuckers like Jack LeLaine, I packs the pain
I'll rack your brain, leave you in a sack wit your name
hangin from your toe as I'm bangin your hoe
She'll be slangin pussy down in Magic City, bringin me doe
If you don't know it's Lord Jamar from the Nubian set
No matter who the fuck you are we're puttin down the sweat
Servin heat on a motherfucker's street
Bullets be dripped whiles a motherfucker trippin
You'll never catch me slippin cos I got my rubber soles
The devils make me sick, I'd love to fill em full of holes
Kill em all in the daytime, broad motherfuckin daylight
12 o'clock, grab the Glock while waitin for the night
We sweatin motherfuckin bullets, and if we break a sweat
that means we'll make ya wet
I'll take your life and jet back to some place cooler
Now Ruler is where my burner gets the fueler
If niggas wanna do I got the hollow point teflon
The kind niggas will vest then get laid to rest on
So niggas bring your best on but I suggest you invest on
a burial plot cos shit is gettin hot, we're sweatin bullets
So again, tell me, where are the anti white lyrics? ‘niggas’ can now be considered white?
This is a completely moronic debate. It is OK that there is an explosion in White power music because you can take out of context lyrics and suggest that they indicate an anti white bias in rap, and as a result, it should make white power music ok? Is there is a fucking niche in rap that preaches only anti white messages? NO. Are there any anti white rappers on labels whose albums get sold in major stores, NO. Would their existence somehow validate that of White Power? Absolutely NOT. What then is the point of this comparison (reference to rap site), and even worse, how the fuck can you even use such a worthless site? Next time you want to speak to a moron, I suggest you go to a White Power concert and not post your tripe on here.
Spock:
Still cannot feel your dick, eh maggot? Fuck off. I'm not in the mood to play around with your head.
Wraith:
Awwwww. You Ok, Wraithy boy? Have you reached the point where you think every comment addressed to you, by me, is antagonistic?