Living Forever - the end of God?

[Cris]

Vitalone,

… and eventually become bored and disinterested with life and realize the true purpose in life...

I’m intrigued, and that is………?

 

[Cris]

Vitalone,

No, suffering (fear, anger, sorrow, etc...) would still continue and thus spirituality and religion would thrive more than ever....

Why? Religions are based on death, not these emotions. What is your reasoning?

 

[Cris]

Lg,

BG 2.27: One who has taken his birth is sure to die,

A logical fallacy. This is an attempt to predict the future which is not possible. All we can say is that no one has yet been able to escape death, but that makes no case about what science can do for us in the future.

and after death one is sure to take birth again.

A totally worthless unsupported fantasy.

- therefore immortality in a corporeal body is the impossible dream of atheists, both in the present and in history.

But which says nothing of our potential for the future, for which you can say nothing.

 

[ashura]

Ashura,

But what would that mean in any practical sense? The promise of every significant religion is a life beyond death, and the rules that its adherents follow is the process by which they are meant to achieve eternal life. If you already have an open ended lifespan then what would following a religion mean? Surely it would be seen as a redundant activity that offers nothing. It would die out, surely, or at least be seen as largely irrelevant?

Certainly suicide, murder, and accidents would be the primary causes of death. So it is not immortality that we are considering here.

But we need to consider the nature of a society that has come to terms with open ended life spans. Today we accept that many thousands of people die every day in all parts of the world. Death is accepted as a normal frequent event and hence religion surrounds it with it superstitions and promises of something better. But won’t attitudes change when the death rate changes from instead of thousands every day to just a few every year. I would argue that the value of life would quickly be seen as extremely high and that even further precautions would be taken to ensure its safety.

Would religion survive in such an atmosphere of extremely rare death? At best I think it would just be sidelined. Without death being inevitable, it would be reduced to something most unfortunate if it ever occurs.

You do bring up some good points but I still believe the answer is yes. Death occurring less and less will make the deaths that do happen much more important, with people becoming more sentimental towards it. They will still seek comfort when it happens.

The life beyond death that religions of today promise is connected to another promise: purpose. People will still ask, why am I here? And religion will always be around for those willing to believe a faith-based answer.

Perhaps, in that day and age, instead of asking "Why will I die?", they will more often ask, "Why do I live?"

 

[Carcano]

Even if the human life span is extended indefinitely, you would still have to watch out for falling grand pianos.

 

[Cris]

ashura,

The life beyond death that religions of today promise is connected to another promise: purpose. People will still ask, why am I here? And religion will always be around for those willing to believe a faith-based answer.

Yet no religion has yet answered the question of purpose. They all stop at promising a life beyond death and then......what? So if you achieve everlasting life in some form of heaven, what then is the purpose of such a life?

Isn't the issue of what do I do with my long Earthly life equally optional as it would be in some fantasy heaven?

Perhaps, in that day and age, instead of asking "Why will I die?", they will more often ask, "Why do I live?"

So extend that to an eternal heavenly life and which you imply that religions answer that, but do they? I don't think so.

 

[ashura]

ashura,

Yet no religion has yet answered the question of purpose. They all stop at promising a life beyond death and then......what? So if you achieve everlasting life in some form of heaven, what then is the purpose of such a life?

Isn't the issue of what do I do with my long Earthly life equally optional as it would be in some fantasy heaven?

So extend that to an eternal heavenly life and which you imply that religions answer that, but do they? I don't think so.

From my understanding, joining God in heaven is the only purpose that the followers of the Abrahamic religions need. The idea of anything beyond God, any purpose other than God's, is unthinkable. The idea that they're not like the common animal, that they're special in the grand scheme of things. It's not just life after death, but life with God after death. And also, I think that you would never be sad or worried or feel any negative emotion in heaven, and those things would still plague you in a long life.

 

[Cris]

And your purpose in such a life is........what?

You are going to live an eternity with God doing what?

Is a worry free happy eternity the purpose of life then?

Doesn't that sound somewhat purposeless?

The idea of anything beyond God, any purpose other than God's, is unthinkable

Yes as I was saying - religions are designed to get you to only believe that death is really a magical gateway to a perfect paradise or variations. So then what?

 

[ashura]

And your purpose in such a life is........what?

You are going to live an eternity with God doing what?

Is a worry free happy eternity the purpose of life then?

Doesn't that sound somewhat purposeless?

Yes as I was saying - religions are designed to get you to only believe that death is really a magical gateway to a perfect paradise or variations. So then what?

Heh, of course it sounds purposeless - to me. But I'm not a Christian/Jew/Muslim. For them, that's apparently all the purpose and comfort they need. And I don't think that'll change if we reach the hypothetical in the OP.

 

[John J. Bannan]

Just because Aubrey de Grey looks like a nut - does that mean he is wrong?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_de_Grey

 

[lightgigantic]

cris

Lg,

“
BG 2.27: One who has taken his birth is sure to die,
”
A logical fallacy. This is an attempt to predict the future which is not possible. All we can say is that no one has yet been able to escape death, but that makes no case about what science can do for us in the future.

if thats the case one could also lend credibility to the ambition to become one's own genetic father

“
and after death one is sure to take birth again.
”
A totally worthless unsupported fantasy.

according to your knowledge base perhaps

“
- therefore immortality in a corporeal body is the impossible dream of atheists, both in the present and in history.
”
But which says nothing of our potential for the future, for which you can say nothing.

there is a fine line between "future potential" and "mad dreams", and science fiction tends to blur this distinction in the minds of some atheists

 

[John J. Bannan]

Accidental deaths would put a damper on living forever. However, who's to say we can't have brain transplants into cloned bodies. Or even downloads of our consciousness into Matrix like computers? No accidental deaths to worry about there. Of course, this is just science fiction. But, if people can live forever, wouldn't they be more careful and avoid accidents?

 

[Smellsniffsniff]

People follow all those rules for the pay off of eternal life. If they get it for free, why follow all the rules?

Because given the state of things, life being an extremely rare state for matter, we might allready be dead and you wouldn't know anything about it.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Wisdom Seeker,

The alternative is non-existence, how could that ever be better?

I don’t think you have thought this through. The universe is huge, perhaps infinite, so why do you think we will always be constrained to this tiny insignificant rock? Our potential for growth and discovery is colossal, why would anyone not want to be a part of that?

After I die, I know that my spirit will be in the same hands which putted it here in the first place, and created all life in this planet. I think those hands have a better understanding (to say the least) on what is better for life, than any human will ever have.

There is chaos in the universe, and among these vast darkness, we find this little rock we call our planet, which has the perfect conditions for us to evolve from bacteria, and also lotus flowers, trees and birds evolved from the same insignificant organisms.

After I die, my soul will serve the same purpose because of which life was created on this planet, and that is the best purpose I can think of. Because in our human insignificant brain, we can never act according to what’s best for nature’s interest, our soul will be in the hands of existence after we die, and existence can deal with my life energy way better than I could ever think of…

Death is usually ugly, messy and painful. And you will not exist to have any thoughts on the matter once you are dead.

To think that way, is just arrogance and denial of an imminent death that may come in the next minute, or tomorrow, I don’t know when, but you can be certain it will happen sometime. To be afraid of death is to be afraid of life; this is a dual fact…

 

[John J. Bannan]

To be afraid of death is not the same with being afraid of life. Life has made us afraid of death - not afraid of life. Otherwise, if we were afraid of life would be committing suicide in droves. Surely, life and death are intertwinned - but fears do not have to be likewise intertwinned. Death is simply life not allowing us to live forever, because there is a distinct evolutionary advantage to killing us off after we have spread our genes to our offspring. Death ensures the rapid spread of useful genes and allows organisms to adapt faster. Not wanting to give evolution that advantage, however, is certainly understandable. What does nature know? Are you talking about Mother Nature, Gaia, or some consciousness to nature? Sounds like flaky granola talk to me.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

To be afraid of death is not the same with being afraid of life. Life has made us afraid of death - not afraid of life. Otherwise, if we were afraid of life would be committing suicide in droves. Surely, life and death are intertwinned - but fears do not have to be likewise intertwinned. Death is simply life not allowing us to live forever, because there is a distinct evolutionary advantage to killing us off after we have spread our genes to our offspring. Death ensures the rapid spread of useful genes and allows organisms to adapt faster. Not wanting to give evolution that advantage, however, is certainly understandable. What does nature know? Are you talking about Mother Nature, Gaia, or some consciousness to nature? Sounds like flaky granola talk to me.

I´m talking about the Dao

and yes, if you are afraid of death, you will never fully live.

 

[Sarkus]

Death is usually ugly, messy and painful. And you will not exist to have any thoughts on the matter once you are dead.

Don't confuse "death" with "dying".

Most confuse the two - i.e. they think they fear death when they are actually afraid of the dying part that comes before death.
And to the individual it is the dying that is usually ugly, messy and painful.

On the other hand, death is usually ugly, messy and painful to those left behind.


I have to admit to not being afraid of death - purely 'cos I won't be around in any form to experience it.

The dying part... terrified of it.

 

[John J. Bannan]

Sorry, know nothing about Dao. However, a fear of death does not prevent you from fully living. All that nature wants from you is to reproduce and your offspring to survive to reproduce. That's it. Of course, not being afraid of death can lead to great accomplishment - but also great tragedy. There is an obvious benefit to fear of death in prolonging our lives. Too great a fear, however, could prevent us from taking necessary risks. But, fear of death overall is a good thing - otherwise we wouldn't have it. It would have evolved out of us.

 

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Sorry, know nothing about Dao. However, a fear of death does not prevent you from fully living. All that nature wants from you is to reproduce and your offspring to survive to reproduce. That's it. Of course, not being afraid of death can lead to great accomplishment - but also great tragedy. There is an obvious benefit to fear of death in prolonging our lives. Too great a fear, however, could prevent us from taking necessary risks. But, fear of death overall is a good thing - otherwise we wouldn't have it. It would have evolved out of us.

You know the Dao man, you breathe from it every second of your life, and you eat from it for survival. Like water, the Dao gives everything but does not asks for anything in return, such is the nature of the Dao. You should read some Lao-Tzu, is good stuff.

Death is somewhat like your shadow. Our minds have a crazy desire: we want only life and not death. We don’t care for the existential truth of life and death, we cling to our insane desire. This desire is common among living creatures, but the difference is that we are aware of this. We know we are going to die, we were born, therefore we will die, it is simple.
For me is a simple truth, if you are afraid of dying, you are not happy right now, and by right now, I mean now. You are not fully living, you are afraid because you have unfinished business, not realizing how insignificant that unfinished business is.
Unfinished business gives you attachments that are hard to let go, is not hard to let go if you think about it, everything we know is temporary.
Our life is just a glimpse of eternity, our life is nothing but an open and closing of your eyes, you closed your eyes already; but you are afraid of opening them again. This is useless, we need to be able to open and close our eyes as much as we want to.

Your search for eternity is nothing but trying to keep your eyes closed. The universal panacea of alchemists is nothing but the search for the glue to keep these eyes closed a little longer.

 

[John J. Bannan]

A true fear of dying is just the wake up call most of us need to smell the roses of living. I couldn't disagree with you more. Knowledge that I may be dead tomorrow let's me prioritize my life today - and live a better life.