Somehow I understood. Sometimes people don't want to understand.
Religion has always stood fast against human rights.
Life in America is funny
- Thread starter KennyJC
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Somehow I understood. Sometimes people don't want to understand.
Religion has always stood fast against human rights.
He doesn't infer that. You are doing the inferring tho quite a sloppy job of it.
He doesn't imply it either.
It's the infringing on human rights that he's speaking against.
You really should go back and read the start of the thread. The OP started with various examples of every day in your face and down your throat stuff that living in America has brought me. You saw no connection between things like that, and the tip of the iceberg (presidents and senators dehumanizing gays and atheists). I should have said 'every day shit LIKE getting handwritten religious letters in the mail' instead of 'every day shit of getting handwritten letters in the mail'. Perhaps I didn't think anybody would have been such an idiot to think that I would literally get handwritten religious letters everyday.
what would you like for me to tell you? I never experienced that.
Well whilst I think people should be free to be racists or homophobic or hate atheists, I don't for a second think that means they should have a right to deny gays the same rights as the rest of us, or racists to have segregation.
If was to tell my boss that I objected to his religious memo, he should not have the right to fire me. As an atheist I would never give out atheism promoting memos and even if I did, I would not fire any religious person for objecting to it.
As far as i know any boss can give out Atheist memos, so again i dont know what you are dictating here, that is if you are not making stuff up again. Which is quite possible because you sound like an activist blinded by ambition and conversion.
Where high level politicians are free to endulge in hate speeches to minority groups? Perhaps the enforcement of racial segregation should also be considered a 'freedom'? Living in America does NOT mean freedom for everyone. And nor should it. There is a line between freedom and the law.
No country of the United Kingdom offers same-sex marriage, though all countries provide civil partnerships to same-sex couples that provide all the legal consequences of marriage.
I would consider that far in advance of what goes on in the US. I think gay people would just want the same recognition as a married couple. Churches should have the freedom to reject gay marriages, but courts etc, should one grant that priveladge.
Countries/States that recognise civil partnerships and gay marriages seem to correlate with high levels of secularism and atheism within the population. So I don't know where you are pulling that from. If you take issue with this then I'm sure I can show you a lot of facts and figures showing greater human rights and societal health in countries/states which have low levels of religion.
That would only be true if I genuinely had no interest in the rights of gay people. But alas, you are wrong. I also thought Sean Penns speech at the academy awards was genuine even if he wasn't gay. You seem to forget that one of the reasons I dislike religion (albeit one reason out of many) is its historic and current blocking of human rights and other political issues which I have an interest in. For instance, their blocking of stem cell research is one of many things, euthanasia another. And yet, you will say that my support of stem cell research is just a dishonest pawn to bolster my argument against religion? I don't really know where you get off saying that, or calling me a liar.
Bollocks. Why did the vote in banning same sex union pass? Religious beliefs and religious campaign funding had nothing to do with it? Give it a fucking rest. Religion was precicely the reason the ban succeeded.
personally i never got into organized religion, perhaps because i dont have a family and my parents, who adopted me at the age of three, never made an issue of it. You are preaching to the choir here although i you seem to know everything or so YOU believe and anyone who comes off that way will have someone to tell them otherwise, obviously you dont like this.
My beliefs are personal and i have no need to tell others or make demands on people to believe as i do. Although this is what you are doing so really i see no difference between you and someone who happens to be very religious.
of course i do have a problem with religions dictating and making demands on society to change for them but this is not the case with gay marriage. There are other reasons why gay marriage is not allowed in the majority of countries and i am not saying weather i agree or not and like i already showed you, the u.s is no different than the majority so to blame anyone is disingenuous. but you will anyway, you do so without the proper sophistication to look at the issue subjectively. iow's you are looking to blame someone but that is just wrong. Gays are discriminated against by non-religious people just as much. It did bother me when i was younger, being that i had a gay brother, but then i had four others who were not gay. I heard the jokes and nonsense from idiots who were not religious or never went to church or read the Bible. This is why i see things differently than you but that is beside the point because being a fundamentalist you will see only what you want to see and of course you wouldnt notice this but i could care less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage
So long as I don't infringe on the rights of religious people to hate, you mean.
That is not what i mean.
"When I was a little boy, I believed that if you put a tooth under your pillow, a fairy would come in the night and take away the tooth and leave a dime. Now, I believed in myself more than anything. And, I suppose in a way, that's also believing in God. If there is a God and He made you, then if you believe in yourself, you're also believing in Him. So I think everybody should believe in himself. That doesn't mean you've got to believe in heaven and hell and all that stuff. But it does mean that what you are and what you do is your religion. I can't express myself in easy conversation—the words just don't come out right. But when I get up on stage—well, that's my whole life. That's my religion. My music is electric church music, if by 'church' you mean 'religion', I am electric religion."
That my friend, is not the words of a christian. Sounds more like "Einsteinian Religion".
Obviously you forgot this conversation from awhile ago and your response was exactly the same. it was half jokingly stated by me even if it is true but I could care less about this and tbh people get inspiration whichever way they can.
anyway take care...
what would you like for me to tell you? I never experienced that.
Well whilst I think people should be free to be racists or homophobic or hate atheists, I don't for a second think that means they should have a right to deny gays the same rights as the rest of us, or racists to have segregation.
If was to tell my boss that I objected to his religious memo, he should not have the right to fire me. As an atheist I would never give out atheism promoting memos and even if I did, I would not fire any religious person for objecting to it.
As far as i know any boss can give out Atheist memos, so again i dont know what you are dictating here, that is if you are not making stuff up again. Which is quite possible because you sound like an activist blinded by ambition and conversion.
Where high level politicians are free to endulge in hate speeches to minority groups? Perhaps the enforcement of racial segregation should also be considered a 'freedom'? Living in America does NOT mean freedom for everyone. And nor should it. There is a line between freedom and the law.
No country of the United Kingdom offers same-sex marriage, though all countries provide civil partnerships to same-sex couples that provide all the legal consequences of marriage.
I would consider that far in advance of what goes on in the US. I think gay people would just want the same recognition as a married couple. Churches should have the freedom to reject gay marriages, but courts etc, should one grant that priveladge.
Countries/States that recognise civil partnerships and gay marriages seem to correlate with high levels of secularism and atheism within the population. So I don't know where you are pulling that from. If you take issue with this then I'm sure I can show you a lot of facts and figures showing greater human rights and societal health in countries/states which have low levels of religion.
That would only be true if I genuinely had no interest in the rights of gay people. But alas, you are wrong. I also thought Sean Penns speech at the academy awards was genuine even if he wasn't gay. You seem to forget that one of the reasons I dislike religion (albeit one reason out of many) is its historic and current blocking of human rights and other political issues which I have an interest in. For instance, their blocking of stem cell research is one of many things, euthanasia another. And yet, you will say that my support of stem cell research is just a dishonest pawn to bolster my argument against religion? I don't really know where you get off saying that, or calling me a liar.
Bollocks. Why did the vote in banning same sex union pass? Religious beliefs and religious campaign funding had nothing to do with it? Give it a fucking rest. Religion was precicely the reason the ban succeeded.
personally i never got into organized religion, perhaps because i dont have a family and my parents, who adopted me at the age of three, never made an issue of it. You are preaching to the choir here although i you seem to know everything or so YOU believe and anyone who comes off that way will have someone to tell them otherwise, obviously you dont like this.
My beliefs are personal and i have no need to tell others or make demands on people to believe as i do. Although this is what you are doing so really i see no difference between you and someone who happens to be very religious.
of course i do have a problem with religions dictating and making demands on society to change for them but this is not the case with gay marriage. There are other reasons why gay marriage is not allowed in the majority of countries and i am not saying weather i agree or not and like i already showed you, the u.s is no different than the majority so to blame anyone is disingenuous. but you will anyway, you do so without the proper sophistication to look at the issue subjectively. iow's you are looking to blame someone but that is just wrong. Gays are discriminated against by non-religious people just as much. It did bother me when i was younger, being that i had a gay brother, but then i had four others who were not gay. I heard the jokes and nonsense from idiots who were not religious or never went to church or read the Bible. This is why i see things differently than you but that is beside the point because being a fundamentalist you will see only what you want to see and of course you wouldnt notice this but i could care less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage
So long as I don't infringe on the rights of religious people to hate, you mean.
That is not what i mean.
"When I was a little boy, I believed that if you put a tooth under your pillow, a fairy would come in the night and take away the tooth and leave a dime. Now, I believed in myself more than anything. And, I suppose in a way, that's also believing in God. If there is a God and He made you, then if you believe in yourself, you're also believing in Him. So I think everybody should believe in himself. That doesn't mean you've got to believe in heaven and hell and all that stuff. But it does mean that what you are and what you do is your religion. I can't express myself in easy conversation—the words just don't come out right. But when I get up on stage—well, that's my whole life. That's my religion. My music is electric church music, if by 'church' you mean 'religion', I am electric religion."
That my friend, is not the words of a christian. Sounds more like "Einsteinian Religion".
Obviously you forgot this conversation from awhile ago and your response was exactly the same. it was half jokingly stated by me even if it is true but I could care less about this and tbh people get inspiration whichever way they can.
anyway take care...
It is VERY difficult to discern what is quoted & what is yours.
It does seem you yet can not understand that different people have different experiences & your experiences do not necessarily reflect those of many others.
It does seem you yet can not understand that different people have different experiences & your experiences do not necessarily reflect those of many others.
did you see the pattern with the red type?
I don't see any red type.
You're trying to get across to Kenny that you can not understand that different people have different experiences & your experiences do not necessarily reflect those of many others?
I wasn't an idiot at age 12 but even then I attempted to explain things to people who refused to understand.
Perhaps i see Kenny's misunderstanding now and he needs to read between the lines afa gay marriage. Of course I am not a politician and i dont set policy, when UK allows gay marriage then he may have a rational argument. Or even countries with 70% Agnostic\Atheist which he can pick out himself from the list in the link.
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Not entirely true.
Baptists, for example, were at one time very liberal and staunch supporters of human rights, but there was a conservative take over and now their forefathers are rolling in their graves in disgust.
I'm at a loss for what your position actually is and what you have offered as support of it.
You're the one that kicked up a fuss about me lying about it.
Atheist or religious memos have no place in the workplace. Unless it happens to be a church or atheist HQ's etc. Even if atheists can do it the same as religious folks do, the fact is, they don't.
I am there to tell them otherwise even though the scales are not in my favour.
Except I am right of course - that's a pretty big difference. And if it were not for people who countered religious fundies then where would the world be right now? What if the non-religious didn't speak out? What if Dawkins didn't write the God Delusion? I don't think it's any coincidence that the non-religious section of the country is growing and it is merely a result of giving them a voice to defend against the rampaging religious zealouts that have been running things.
Are you objecting to the fact that gay rights are broadly more respected in more secular countries? Generally speaking, of course.
No. Religion and homophobia go together like stuff that goes good together. If there was a poll of each state in America or any country in the world, I bet the levels of homophobia correlate pretty much the religiousity of the state/country. It should go without saying that there homophobia is a bigger problem in South Carolina than Vermont, for example, or USA vs Scandinavia.
All countries in the UK offer gays the same rights as married couples in civil unions. If not for the church of England, there would be marriage.
Do all states in the US have civil unions for gay couples?
There's my rational argument.
Baptists were at one time very liberal and staunch supporters of SOME human rights yet not many others. They couldn't get the simple idea that human rights involves some things they don't approve of & whether they approve of something has nothing to do with whether it is a human right.
Many people today support some human rights yet not others.
Someone is either for human rights or not. There's no halfway to it. Like being somewhat pregnant.
The Holy Babble commands people to be against human rights. Take that away & there isn't much left.
It belongs in the workplace if your boss says it does. If you don't like it, leave.KennyJC said:
This may be true, but I would argue that homophobia and people go together like stuff that goes good together. There are plenty of homophobes from all walks of life.KennyJC said: