Life in America is funny

[KennyJC]

i have no idea what you are talking about. the biggest homophobes i have ever known were not religious and i live in U.S and never received anything in the mail to indoctrinate me.

i am not religious nor am i an atheist but you are a liar.

I would only be a liar if everything I posted in this thread was opposed to my personal experiences. Non-religious people that I am aware of in real life and in the media tend to be pro gay and human rights and pro secularism. Religious folk the opposite. Which is why it's not hard for me to see a connection between everything in the OP and what some senators of this country are saying about gays and secularists.

If you still don't get it, then what states in the US have consistantly worse records of human rights? Red states or blue? Red. And what is different between red states and blue? The levels of christian evangilism of course. Is it any coincidence that the US senator in the Youtube video I posted earlier was from one of the reddest of states in this country?

For me, I can not believe I live in a country were senators can get away with saying this stuff. The tip of the iceberg... but all thanks to the shit mentioned in the OP.

 

[John99]

I would only be a liar if everything I posted in this thread was opposed to my personal experiences. Non-religious people that I am aware of in real life and in the media tend to be pro gay and human rights and pro secularism. Religious folk the opposite. Which is why it's not hard for me to see a connection between everything in the OP and what some senators of this country are saying about gays and secularists.

I think you are a liar and people are 'pro gay' when they can use them as bargaining chips\pawns to further their own agendas otherwise they can be just as homophobic as anyone else.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

First i have to say that i have no idea what you are talking about.

the biggest homophobes i have ever known were not religious and i live in U.S and never received anything in the mail to indoctrinate me.

i am not religious either nor am i an atheist but you are a liar.

You've experienced something differently from him & haven't experienced something he experienced therefore he's a liar.
Your personal experience determines what others experience.

Hmmmmm

 

[John99]

You've experienced something differently from him & haven't experienced something he experienced therefore he's a liar.
Your personal experience determines what others experience.

Hmmmmm

That is correct, he knows he is lying so what is the point of not making the statement? The difference is that i am not promoting an agenda therefore, unlike him, i have no reason to lie.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

:roflmao:
:roflmao:

 

[Orleander]

....You also have presidents who fail to recognise American atheists as citizens. ....

we do? Presidents. How far back in time are you going???

 

[TheVisitor]

All the religious bumper stickers and rosary beads on rear mirrors. The hand written letters that get delivered to my door trying to convert me to their religion/church. Local news which acts as a mouth piece for religion. This place needs secularized the "bleep" out of!

The Christians in America are so damn terrified of atheists they feel God has given them a mission to save these souls.

It's not so much that most Christians are terrified of Atheists.
They just don't know how to help others, because they really can't even help themselves.
They are caught up in a cold, dead, commercialized system that is just a shadow of what it once was.
Even if something's not perfect many will support it thinking that's better than nothing.
Society has many controls like these that are sometimes started for the good of their populations. God and Government. The <G>'s...
Then they grow, lose sight of their origins and get out of control. That is where America stands today.
Something that was once blessed by God to become great and powerful, when it falls away...that power becomes a monster.
That could be part of the rationality behind our Muslim enemies calling America "The Great Satan". We are just too close to see it from the inside friends.

All it would take is one more Sept. 11th level event on American soil, and laws already existing on the books will be enforced.
Religious freedom in America will then be a thing of the past. Religion is what these new laws are focused on. Why?
Most terrorism and war stems from religious beliefs.
That is why church and state must always stay separate.
The State should not control or enforce rules upon churches, and churches should never be allowed to get control of the state.

Just a few things we should ask ourselves...
-Is it possible there have been architects in charge of this new socialist change in America's direction?
-Is the bailout money they can't seem to print fast enough and give away, really going towards bringing about our "recovery"?
-How long can any country keep printing money with no gold to back it up?
-Has the bankruptcy of America has been intentionally accelerated through economic sabotage?
-Were the laws enacted through recent "acts of terrorism", really enacted through internal acts of treason?
-Was 9-11 an inside job after all?
-Is it really just SEC ineptitude, or were they ordered to look the other way, just like perhaps the Air Force was on that morning in New York?.
-Is there any connection between 9-11 and America's bankruptcy?

*They hit the World Trade Center right above Wall Street...
*Bank failures today were brought about by the removal of the Glass-Steagall act of 1933, that took both republicans and democrats in 1999 to overturn.
*Mortgages were made to people without jobs, 50 billion dollar Ponzi schemes went right ahead while the SEC was informed...
*Government subsidized foreign car factories in southern non-union states intentionally drove Detroit into the ground...

If they called in all our debt for gold right now, who alone could bail us out? The catholic church of Rome. Then what do you have?
The state is about to enforce new laws defining religion enacted against terrorism. A church is gaining control of that state through it's bankruptcy.
We've seen what Nazi Germany became when it suddenly went from socialism to a fascist dictatorship controlled by a religious fanatic.
Just imagine if America went that same way. "Godzilla rides again"...wouldn't begin to describe it.
Life in America sure is funny, but you all ain't laughing though...

 

[KennyJC]

we do? Presidents. How far back in time are you going???

One is enough.

 

[spidergoat]

I think Americans, ordinarily a very religious people, in desperate times grow even more reliant on religion to give them hope for the future. How the end times apocalypse gives them hope is beyond me, but the mythology of heaven is understandably appealing.

 

[Orleander]

One is enough.

well, who was it?:shrug:

 

[KennyJC]

well, who was it?:shrug:

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush Sr: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

 

[KennyJC]

I think you are a liar and people are 'pro gay' when they can use them as bargaining chips\pawns to further their own agendas otherwise they can be just as homophobic as anyone else.

Well pardon me for wishing human rights for everyone. What an agenda I must have...

I still don't get why you are calling me a liar. Apparently you seem to think I am saying only religious folk are homophobic. I am saying it is especially religious folk.

 

[Orleander]

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush Sr: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

All of the star reporters from the Chicago political press corps were there, along with members of the White House press corps (those who regularly cover the President and Vice President) and other national news reporters, but no other reporter did anything with the story about Mr. Bush's anti-atheist comments.

One person says it and you believe it. I guess I would need more proof than that, but...to each his own I suppose.

 

[Hapsburg]

I think Americans, ordinarily a very religious people, in desperate times grow even more reliant on religion to give them hope for the future.

The religiosity of the American populace is relative to the times. There are periods where it's higher and periods where it's lower. It can be seen all throughout American history.
And, to a lesser extent, European history (Christianity originally rose to prominence during a major Roman economic crisis, for example).

 

[KennyJC]

All of the star reporters from the Chicago political press corps were there, along with members of the White House press corps (those who regularly cover the President and Vice President) and other national news reporters, but no other reporter did anything with the story about Mr. Bush's anti-atheist comments.

One person says it and you believe it. I guess I would need more proof than that, but...to each his own I suppose.

There may not be direct proof with regard to that case, unless you count a letter from Nelson Lundy, the Associate Counsel to the U.S. president which did not deny he made those comments.

But when you have other recordings like this with US Senators:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HKN1jr1sG0&feature=related

We believe in something. You believe in destroying! You believe in destroying what this state was built upon.

It's hardly farfetched that the president of the US did indeed make these comments.

 

[John99]

Well pardon me for wishing human rights for everyone. What an agenda I must have...

I still don't get why you are calling me a liar. Apparently you seem to think I am saying only religious folk are homophobic. I am saying it is especially religious folk.

But -

you dont want human rights for everyone.

why anyone would want you to join their group so bad that they would send you 'handwritten letters every day'...another lie? i never heard of anything close to this before.

you are using homosexuals to further your own animosity and bias when you should just leave them out of it.

Unless you are a homosexual, but then take a look at where same sex marriages are allowed and not allowed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage

The U.S does not stand out in any particular way.

So i dont understand what you are complaining about, unless you just want everyone to be an Atheist like yourself. I dont know of any country where that is the case though.

 

[KennyJC]

But -

you dont want human rights for everyone.

Explain.

why anyone would want you to join their group so bad that they would send you 'handwritten letters every day'...another lie? i never heard of anything close to this before.

Please don't put quote marks around something I never said. 'Every day shit' means being subjected to religion far more than I did in the UK.

I have received 3 hand written letters of a religious nature since I moved here in April 2008. You're gonna have to stop calling me a liar on this issue because it's really starting to piss me off. Good for you not getting letters, but I and everyone (presumably) in my apartment building has. We caught the guy in the act one time as he was standing on the path outside with a clipboard, we watched him stand in the entrance taking notes where the mailboxes are. Put it this way, my mailbox just has my surname, and it is misspelled... these religious letters were addressed to "The <insert my misspelled surname here> residents".

you are using homosexuals to further your own animosity and bias when you should just leave them out of it.

If it wasn't for the fact that I had a feeling you are just trying to get a rise out of me, then I'd really let you have it. I want gay people to be able to get married, not JUST to get one over the religious fucks, but because I can put myself in their shoes. How would I feel if the state of California sent me a letter to tell me my marriage had been annulled because its god-guided residents (and the Utah churches which funded their campaign) thought we had no right? Probably the same way I would feel if a president said I had no right to be a US citizen, or that a senator was saying atheism is dangerous for children and that I believe in destroying this country. If I was to keep digging for quotes from people in high office, I would only get more pissed off. Don't even ask me how I would feel if I was gay, black AND atheist.

 

[John99]

I just dont see what the problem is. One guy sends you three letters, on his own accord and what is that supposed to prove? I could have sworn you said every day, maybe you got someone to change that for you. You believe certain groups of people should not have equal rights and that is where the problem is. You dont tell people how to live their lives.

Living In the U.S means freedom for everyone, so you may as well get used to it or go live someplace else.

The UK does not allow same sex marriage so again i dont know what you expect.

Six countries do allow same sex marriage and that has nothing to do with religion because those places are fairly religious or have large numbers of religious people living there.

Personally i think you are FOS with bringing homosexuality into it and using them as pawns to bolster your argument which you have no right to do. Unless, like i said you are gay yourself but even then no one person speaks for any specific group.

Why would you get pissed? You made the thread for the purpose of getting a rise out of people. You made the statements regarding homosexuality so what am i supposed to think? There is nothing wrong with being gay, one of my brothers is gay and segments of all societies will be gay. Give you nno right to speak for them.

So far you cited a total of three people to prove your point, this is not a majority by any stretch of the imagination and there are many places in U.S where no one cares what your sexual preference is so go live there.

I dont give a shit if you are an atheist or a satanist as long as you dont infringe on the rights of others, as you infer you want to here, than it is no problem.

 

[John99]

and you are confused anyway because you have a hendrix avatar and we all know what the original title and lyrics of purple haze originally was.

 

[KennyJC]

I could have sworn you said every day, maybe you got someone to change that for you.

You really should go back and read the start of the thread. The OP started with various examples of every day in your face and down your throat stuff that living in America has brought me. You saw no connection between things like that, and the tip of the iceberg (presidents and senators dehumanizing gays and atheists). I should have said 'every day shit LIKE getting handwritten religious letters in the mail' instead of 'every day shit of getting handwritten letters in the mail'. Perhaps I didn't think anybody would have been such an idiot to think that I would literally get handwritten religious letters everyday.

You believe certain groups of people should not have equal rights and that is where the problem is. You dont tell people how to live their lives.

Well whilst I think people should be free to be racists or homophobic or hate atheists, I don't for a second think that means they should have a right to deny gays the same rights as the rest of us, or racists to have segregation.

If was to tell my boss that I objected to his religious memo, he should not have the right to fire me. As an atheist I would never give out atheism promoting memos and even if I did, I would not fire any religious person for objecting to it.

Living In the U.S means freedom for everyone, so you may as well get used to it or go live someplace else.

Where high level politicians are free to endulge in hate speeches to minority groups? Perhaps the enforcement of racial segregation should also be considered a 'freedom'? Living in America does NOT mean freedom for everyone. And nor should it. There is a line between freedom and the law.

The UK does not allow same sex marriage so again i dont know what you expect.

No country of the United Kingdom offers same-sex marriage, though all countries provide civil partnerships to same-sex couples that provide all the legal consequences of marriage.

I would consider that far in advance of what goes on in the US. I think gay people would just want the same recognition as a married couple. Churches should have the freedom to reject gay marriages, but courts etc, should one grant that priveladge.

Six countries do allow same sex marriage and that has nothing to do with religion because those places are fairly religious or have large numbers of religious people living there.

Countries/States that recognise civil partnerships and gay marriages seem to correlate with high levels of secularism and atheism within the population. So I don't know where you are pulling that from. If you take issue with this then I'm sure I can show you a lot of facts and figures showing greater human rights and societal health in countries/states which have low levels of religion.

Personally i think you are FOS with bringing homosexuality into it and using them as pawns to bolster your argument which you have no right to do. Unless, like i said you are gay yourself but even then no one person speaks for any specific group.

That would only be true if I genuinely had no interest in the rights of gay people. But alas, you are wrong. I also thought Sean Penns speech at the academy awards was genuine even if he wasn't gay. You seem to forget that one of the reasons I dislike religion (albeit one reason out of many) is its historic and current blocking of human rights and other political issues which I have an interest in. For instance, their blocking of stem cell research is one of many things, euthanasia another. And yet, you will say that my support of stem cell research is just a dishonest pawn to bolster my argument against religion? I don't really know where you get off saying that, or calling me a liar.

So far you cited a total of three people to prove your point, this is not a majority by any stretch of the imagination and there are many places in U.S where no one cares what your sexual preference is so go live there.

Bollocks. Why did the vote in banning same sex union pass? Religious beliefs and religious campaign funding had nothing to do with it? Give it a fucking rest. Religion was precicely the reason the ban succeeded.

I dont give a shit if you are an atheist or a satanist as long as you dont infringe on the rights of others, as you infer you want to here, than it is no problem.

So long as I don't infringe on the rights of religious people to hate, you mean.

and you are confused anyway because you have a hendrix avatar and we all know what the original title and lyrics of purple haze originally was.

"When I was a little boy, I believed that if you put a tooth under your pillow, a fairy would come in the night and take away the tooth and leave a dime. Now, I believed in myself more than anything. And, I suppose in a way, that's also believing in God. If there is a God and He made you, then if you believe in yourself, you're also believing in Him. So I think everybody should believe in himself. That doesn't mean you've got to believe in heaven and hell and all that stuff. But it does mean that what you are and what you do is your religion. I can't express myself in easy conversation—the words just don't come out right. But when I get up on stage—well, that's my whole life. That's my religion. My music is electric church music, if by 'church' you mean 'religion', I am electric religion."

That my friend, is not the words of a christian. Sounds more like "Einsteinian Religion".