I have survived long after birth being a zilloid freak
Life begins. . .
- Thread starter lixluke
- Start date
so basically you just a talking 6 foot pile of purified chromosomes?
wow and I thought I was fuck up.
wow and I thought I was fuck up.haha...Cool skill made quite a prosperous thread here. We should make him moderator of the biologyforum. He certainly knows what he is doing.
That an understatement! He would moderate so well it would seem like he does not even exist here!
if I was moderator I would have deleted your post now...
good that we don't have one...
good that we don't have one...
If I were a moderator I would deleted these last few posts, period.
Last edited:
I lied...I wouldn't have deleted anything.
except all my own posts
except all my own posts
Aahum anything more about sperm and ova then?
so fetus, what is the chemistry of sperm and ova like?
I don’t know I have not taken a class on development biology yet. If you want I could give you the generals on cell cycles operons and hormone syntheses.
I'm sure the moderator would delete those subjects because they are off topic.
Hei Fetus!
read 'developmental biology' by Prof Scot Gilbert! I recommend it because He HAS a spuriousmonkey tshirt!!!!!
read 'developmental biology' by Prof Scot Gilbert! I recommend it because He HAS a spuriousmonkey tshirt!!!!!
paulsamuel
Registered Senior Member
'Special Ed' aka cool skill
don't listen to him. he's attempting to induce non-biological semantics into a biological topic for very transparent anti-choice sentiments. just ignore him. he's on my ignore list.
don't listen to him. he's attempting to induce non-biological semantics into a biological topic for very transparent anti-choice sentiments. just ignore him. he's on my ignore list.
chuck u farley
Registered Senior Member
Hi Cool Skill:
I am a little confused about the "Special Ed." appellation.
I kind of expected a few replies to your original post , pro or con, with some support for their respective positions based in Biology. Haven't seen much though, so I thought I'd give this a shot. Spurious and some others hopefully will point out where I am off the mark.
I understand your position to be that the life of an individual organism, an individual, multicellular, eukaryotic, sexually reproducing organism, begins with the fusion of sperm and egg. I assume that you mean karyogamy.
If an individual, multicellular, eukaryotic organism is alive, then the life of that organism must have begun at some point in time. The question, the point of debate, is when.
I think that it all depends on what sort of life cycle is involved:
Consider organisms that produce spores by meiosis, such as fungi. A spore produced by meiosis divides mitotically, again and again, to form a multicellular mycelium. This multicellular mycelium is genetically identical to, and the direct descendant of, that spore. It seems that the life of that mycelium began upon the completion of meiosis.
Now, for organisms that produce gametes by meiosis, most if not all animals, then any multicellular organism is a direct descendant of the zygote, formed by karyogamy. So, I think that is a sound statement that you made: It's life began with the fusion of the sperm and egg nuclei. It's a little different in mammals than in, say, a sea urchin, I believe. It seems that sperm and egg nuclei do not fuse immediately in mammals. They both share a common spindle apparatus and divide mitotically first, and then they fuse. But, It seems that your point is still essentially correct. Spurious, or whoever wants to, please add your two cents.
For plants and some protists that have alternation of generations, the life of the gametophyte begins with the formation of the spore, and the life of the sporophyte begins with the fusion of the sperm and egg nuclei.
Am I wrong about this? If so, someone please add corrections or amend my statements here to make them correct. I realize that there are plenty of confounding factors with some species. The concept of an individual is not always clear with some plants and protists. Different fungal mycelia may fuse. Then, there's polyploidy etc. But I think that for the most part I'm fundamentally sound here. If not, please explain.
I am a little confused about the "Special Ed." appellation.
I kind of expected a few replies to your original post , pro or con, with some support for their respective positions based in Biology. Haven't seen much though, so I thought I'd give this a shot. Spurious and some others hopefully will point out where I am off the mark.
I understand your position to be that the life of an individual organism, an individual, multicellular, eukaryotic, sexually reproducing organism, begins with the fusion of sperm and egg. I assume that you mean karyogamy.
If an individual, multicellular, eukaryotic organism is alive, then the life of that organism must have begun at some point in time. The question, the point of debate, is when.
I think that it all depends on what sort of life cycle is involved:
Consider organisms that produce spores by meiosis, such as fungi. A spore produced by meiosis divides mitotically, again and again, to form a multicellular mycelium. This multicellular mycelium is genetically identical to, and the direct descendant of, that spore. It seems that the life of that mycelium began upon the completion of meiosis.
Now, for organisms that produce gametes by meiosis, most if not all animals, then any multicellular organism is a direct descendant of the zygote, formed by karyogamy. So, I think that is a sound statement that you made: It's life began with the fusion of the sperm and egg nuclei. It's a little different in mammals than in, say, a sea urchin, I believe. It seems that sperm and egg nuclei do not fuse immediately in mammals. They both share a common spindle apparatus and divide mitotically first, and then they fuse. But, It seems that your point is still essentially correct. Spurious, or whoever wants to, please add your two cents.
For plants and some protists that have alternation of generations, the life of the gametophyte begins with the formation of the spore, and the life of the sporophyte begins with the fusion of the sperm and egg nuclei.
Am I wrong about this? If so, someone please add corrections or amend my statements here to make them correct. I realize that there are plenty of confounding factors with some species. The concept of an individual is not always clear with some plants and protists. Different fungal mycelia may fuse. Then, there's polyploidy etc. But I think that for the most part I'm fundamentally sound here. If not, please explain.
You pose a pretty good argument.
Indeed this thread is full of replies that were intended to attack cool skill rather than adress the actual topic. Typical hater behavior.
Life defined is not necessarily sentinent awareness.
The qualities of life that distinguish living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter is manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
In the case of the human organism as well as the other members of the animalia, this topic addresses the point at which life begins.
Indeed this thread is full of replies that were intended to attack cool skill rather than adress the actual topic. Typical hater behavior.
Life defined is not necessarily sentinent awareness.
The qualities of life that distinguish living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter is manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
In the case of the human organism as well as the other members of the animalia, this topic addresses the point at which life begins.
well...I think that they are certainly not 'viable' by themselves until they fuse. In that respect you could call them not alive.
Sperm cells and egg cells do interact and respond to their environment though. They would have a certain degree of 'awareness' of their environment. They need for instance to interact with each to fuse and respond to each other.