Land of Giants

[Avatar]

What........ How???

Did they make bigger brains to test them??

I refer to the research done by Michel A Hofman at the Netherlands Institute for Brain Research. I suggest you read his very short paper "Limits to Human Brain Evolution" (google it).
Or try Hofman, M.A. (2000). Brain evolution in hominids: are we at the end of the road? In Evolutionary Anatomy of the Primate Cerebral Cortex (eds. Falk, D. & Gibson, K.) Cambridge Univ. Press, in press.

 

[Stryder]

Just another example of a so-called moderator starting a slap-fight.

Hardly, I'm merely trying to place some 'evidence' about certain subjects that seems to be missing in regards to their theories. I know it's terrible to have a personal theory cut down by someone but it really isn't about that, it's really about how a person is perceived if they can't see beyond their theory and how others might taunt and jeer at their lack of education on the subject matter.

I guess you can say it's my attempt at saving them from themselves.

 

[Yorda]

Glad you posted that in Pseudoscience, as other peoples 'Theories' are based on a few more facts:

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=594

here's the real reason why there is 12 hours in a clock:

p.s. if you're not a giant, it might be hard to understand

 

[Stryder]

It would of been simpler to say that the way the earth rotates and the way the sun appears across the sky at the times of day generates an Arch in regards to shadows. If the daylight was Half the day then obviously there must have been an inverse Arch for the night, this makes the cycle of the day being Circular (well Elliptical).

If you are to divide a circle equally into segments, you'd hardly use 10 base. There is also the possibility that either an Hourglass filled with sand or a water chronometer was used to segment the day further, this would mean that there was a set volume and would require people to maintain it regularly. (Of course there was little mention about other Chronometer devices)

As for your Diagram and Mathematical inserts.... well it's a load of nonsense, it only means something to you and people 'like-minded' it has little reason to the measurement of the passage of time.

 

[Light Travelling]

I refer to the research done by Michel A Hofman at the Netherlands Institute for Brain Research. I suggest you read his very short paper "Limits to Human Brain Evolution" (google it).
Or try Hofman, M.A. (2000). Brain evolution in hominids: are we at the end of the road? In Evolutionary Anatomy of the Primate Cerebral Cortex (eds. Falk, D. & Gibson, K.) Cambridge Univ. Press, in press.

I googled it but I dont find the specific conclusion stated that you mention.

also you said they had "scientifically tested" that the brain could not be larger, I do not find the method of scientific testing described in your article either. (and does not your diagram show that the brain could be about 32.5% bigger and still function the same?)


Anyway even if you are correct.................. so what if a larger brain were less efficient, that hardly disproves the existence of giants does it...........so giants are stupid.....thats probably why they died out, no?

 

[Xylene]

Define Giant?

How tall does one have to be? Is 7ft tall a giant?

When I say abnormally large, how large am I talking about? If the average height of humans was much lower 10000 years ago, 7 ft tall may well have seemed a giant.

As Avatr said differences are quickly exagerated in myth

OK, define giant--try the ferla mohr (big gray man) of Scotland (supposedly up in the Grampian Mountains) also supposed to be 25 feet tall. There are reputedly various other species of enormous people, about the same height, on other continents. Check the cryptomundo site or just google the name 'ferla mohr' and see what you get.

 

[maxg]

Nephilim / Nifelheim

In the Bible's old testament there is reference to Nephilim; described as a race of giants who were offspring of human mothers and angelic / demonic fathers.

In Norse mythology one of the nine worlds is called Nifelheim; described as a dark, cold place inhabited by giants.


The similarity of these two words is obvious, but what is the connection.

If someone wrote about it it must be true.

THE SKIAPODES (or Sciapods) were a tribe of one-legged Ethiopian or Indian men who had a single giant foot which they raised in the air to shade themselves against the hot southern sun.

Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana 6. 45 - 47 (trans. Conybeare) (Greek biography C1st to C2nd A.D.) :
"[The C1st A.D. prophet Apollonios of Tyana asked the Indian sage Iarkhos] about the Men who live Underground (Anthropoi Hypogen) and the Pygmaioi (Pygmies) also and the Skiapodes (Shadow-footed men); and larkhas answered his questions thus: ‘ . . . As to men that are Skiapodes (Shadow-footed) or Makrokephaloi (Long-headed), and as to the other poetical fancies which the treatise of Skylax recounts about them, he said that they didn't live anywhere on the earth, and least of all in India."

Philostratus, Life of Apollonius of Tyana 6. 23 - 25 :
"The Nasamones and the Androphagoi (Man-Eaters) and the Pygmaioi (Pygmies) and Skiapodes (Shadow-Foots) people are also tribes of Aithiopia, and they extend as far as the Okeanos Aithiopos (Ethiopian Ocean), which no mariners ever enter except as castaways who do so against their will."

Eusebius, Treatise Against Hierocles 21 (trans. Jones) (Greek rhetorician C4th A.D.) :
"He [Apollonios of Tyana] also asked them [the Brahmans of India] about Anthropoi Hypergen (Men who live underground), and about others called Pygmaioi (Pygmies), and Skiapodes (Shadow-footed men), and ... the Martikhora ... Such then were the questions which Apollonios put to the sages, and Iarkhas instructed him about the Pygmaioi ... but as to the other things which he asked about, Iarkhas said that they never had existed at all."

Pliny the Elder, Natural History 7. 23 (trans. Rackham) (Roman encyclopedia C1st A.D.) :
"He [Ctesias, Greek historian C5th B.C.] also describes a tribe of men [in India or Aithiopia] called Monocoli who have only one leg, and who move in jumps with surprising speed; the same are called Sciapodes (Shadow-Foots) tribe, because in the hotter weather they lie on their backs on the ground and protect themselves with the shadow of their feet."

[Text from http://www.theoi.com/Phylos/Skiapodes.html

 

[Orleander]

don't forget the Amazon women!

 

[nietzschefan]

Anu The oldest Sumerian "God".

Gilgamesh ("hero")

Enki(i think)

 

[nietzschefan]

North American finds:

* In his book, The Natural and Aboriginal History of Tennessee, author John Haywood describes "very large" bones in stone graves found in Williamson County, Tennessee, in 1821. In White County, Tennessee, an "ancient fortification" contained skeletons of gigantic stature averaging at least 7 feet in length.

* Giant skeletons were found in the mid-1800s near Rutland and Rodman, New York. J.N. DeHart, M.D. found vertebrae "larger than those of the present type" in Wisconsin mounds in 1876. W.H.R. Lykins uncovered skull bones "of great size and thickness" in mounds of Kansas City area in 1877.

* George W. Hill, M.D., dug out a skeleton "of unusual size" in a mound of Ashland County, Ohio. In 1879, a nine-foot, eight-inch skeleton was excavated from a mound near Brewersville, Indiana(Indianapolis News, Nov 10, 1975)

* A six foot, six inch skeleton was found in a Utah mound. This was at least a foot taller than the average Indian height in the area, and these natives- what few there were of them -were not mound builders.

* "A skeleton which is reported to have been of enormous dimensions" was found in a clay coffin, with a sandstone slab containing hieroglyphics, during mound explorations by a Dr everhart near Zanesville, Ohio.(American Antiquarian, v3, 1880, pg61)

* Ten skeletons "of both sexes and of gigantic size" were taken from a mound at Warren, Minnesota, 1883. (St. Paul Pioneer Press, May 23, 1883)

* A skeleton 7 feet 6 inches long was found in a massive stone structure that was likened to a temple chamber within a mound in Kanawha County, West Virginia, in 1884. (American Antiquarian, v6, 1884 133f. Cyrus Thomas, Report on Mound Explorations of the Bureau of Ethnology, 12th Annual Report, Smithsonian Bureau of Ethnology, 1890-91)

* A large mound near Gasterville, Pennsylvania, contained a vault in which was found a skeleton measuring 7 feet 2 inches. Inscriptions were carved on the vault. (American Antiquarian, v7, 1885, 52f) click here for full article

* In 1885, miners discovered the mummified remains of woman measuring 6 feet 8 inches tall holding an infant. The mummies were found in a cave behind a wall of rock in the Yosemite Valley.

* In Minnesota, 1888, were discovered remains of seven skeletons 7 to 8 feet tall. (St. Paul Pioneer Press, June 29, 1888)

* A mound near Toledo, Ohio, held 20 skeletons, seated and facing east with jaws and teeth "twice as large as those of present day people," and besides each was a large bowl with "curiously wrought hieroglyphic figures." (Chicago Record, Oct. 24, 1895; cited by Ron G. Dobbins, NEARA Journal, v13, fall 1978)

* The skeleton of a huge man was uncovered at the Beckley farm, Lake Koronis, Minnesota; while at Moose Island and Pine City, bones of other giants came to light. (St. Paul Globe, Aug. 12, 1896)

* In 1911, several red-haired mummies ranging from 6 and a half feet to 8 feet tall were discovered in a cave in Lovelock, Nevada. click here for the full article

* In February and June of 1931, large skeletons were found in the Humboldt lake bed near Lovelock, Nevada. The first of these two skeletons found measured 8 1/2 feet tall and appeared to have been wrapped in a gum-covered fabric similiar to the Egyptian manner. The second skeleton was almost 10 feet long.(Review - Miner, June 19, 1931)

* A 7 foot 7 inch skeleton was reported to have been found on the Friedman ranch, near Lovelock, Nevada, in 1939.(Review - Miner, Sept. 29, 1939)

* In 1965, a skeleton measuring 8 feet 9 inches was found buried under a rock ledge along the Holly Creek in east-central Kentucky. click here for the full article

 

[MetaKron]

There's really no reason that a giant human race cannot exist. We can talk about giant humans who died young, but the examples that I know of lived long enough to reproduce. They were somewhat abnormal for their own bloodlines and it takes time for a new bloodline to sort itself out. When sorting has been done and greater size is more normal for the bloodline, giants may be just as normal as the rest of us.

The term "giant" used to refer to races like the Nordic and the Watusi who ran six feet six inches to seven feet in height, which is more understandable when this label is applied by races who run five feet nothing in height. The advantages and disadvantages are a mixed bag.

 

[nietzschefan]

There's really no reason that a giant human race cannot exist. We can talk about giant humans who died young, but the examples that I know of lived long enough to reproduce. They were somewhat abnormal for their own bloodlines and it takes time for a new bloodline to sort itself out. When sorting has been done and greater size is more normal for the bloodline, giants may be just as normal as the rest of us.

The term "giant" used to refer to races like the Nordic and the Watusi who ran six feet six inches to seven feet in height, which is more understandable when this label is applied by races who run five feet nothing in height. The advantages and disadvantages are a mixed bag.

Exactly. Cro-Magnon man was a race that existed for 10s of thousands of years. 6'6" + in height. Even more far out proportions are possible, particularly in prehistoric isolation.

 

[MetaKron]

Maybe the real answer to the mystery of the disappearance of the Cro-Magnons is that they got shorter when they blended with the rest of humanity. Then their bone structures changed also. Tall people have visibly different bone structures from short people.

 

[Stryder]

I never said 'Giants' as in tall people couldn't exist, merely ones that were 15ft+ high would pretty much be a load of rubbish though IMHO. The point with folk lore over bones and fossilised remains however is that it can be exaggerated, for instance the indigenous people of Japan are not known to be giants (The main reason for this is that most things grow in regards to the size of their environment and the availability of food. You could suggest people on small islands didn't necessarily grow as tall as those on continents, of course this is only a theory based on the size that fish grow to if placed within larger ponds)

On chance meeting between continent dwellers and Island dwellers and well you get tails of tall monster's... 'Giants'. Even if they are only 6 inches taller.

 

[spuriousmonkey]

Does anyone know of any documented cases of giants.

I followed Nietzsche's link, but they were all anecdotes.

 

[Stryder]

I know nothing of 'Tribes' or Civilisations, other than those anecdotes placed within religious texts. There are documented cases of Giant people, however they are usually abnormalities within the society of the time (A church not so many miles from here has a grave for someone about 8ft or so tall)

 

[spuriousmonkey]

On a biological note:

It's not impossible for a strain of people to grow larger.

The difference between a Danish dog and a little dograt (take your pick) is mostly in just one gene. They carry different alleles.

This is accomplished by selecting artificially for size.

This could be possible in a 'royal' line (as has been suggested in this thread), if the founder was tall, and mated with an equally tall female. Subsequent matings were always between the tallest offspring of the male version and either an outside female that was selected for tallness, or another offspring that was tallest.

After a few dozen generations you could easily end up with an extremely tall human line.

That said, this explanation is rather unlikely, and at the same time, the likeliest one.

A ruling class is governed by power. Power corrupts. There will be no selection for a physical trait. There will be selfish behaviour aimed at gaining power.

Moreover, this kind of prolonged inbreeding, and inbreeding it will be, because after a few generations there is no point in seeking a mate outside the lineage because they will all be shorter, will inevitably lead to many health problems.

 

[Yorda]

u know we evolved from spirits... that's why they were so large before... because spirits don't weigh much so they can be large....

but there were also physical giants who were 20 feet... and dinosaurs

If you are to divide a circle equally into segments, you'd hardly use 10 base.

i wud use 8 or 16. it's hard to divide to 12 because it's hard to make triangles

 

[nietzschefan]

Maybe the real answer to the mystery of the disappearance of the Cro-Magnons is that they got shorter when they blended with the rest of humanity. Then their bone structures changed also. Tall people have visibly different bone structures from short people.

I think so too. Or they just got wiped out by the typical human "He's different let's kill 'em". If there were real giant races(8-9 foot or more in height) it seems they just couldn't compete. Imagine how much food they would need to accumulate. In many Indian legends, these guys had to resort to eating(cannibalism) the smaller tribes.

 

[Pandaemoni]

Nephilim / Nifelheim

In the Bible's old testament there is reference to Nephilim; described as a race of giants who were offspring of human mothers and angelic / demonic fathers.

In Norse mythology one of the nine worlds is called Nifelheim; described as a dark, cold place inhabited by giants.


The similarity of these two words is obvious, but what is the connection.
Is it merely a linguistic connection, the origin maybe meaning giant or land of giants?
Could there be some shared mythological inheritance between the Hebrew and Norse people i.e. a shared common ancestral people or migration from one to the other?
Or is there some shred of truth at the origin of these stories; that at one time there was a land of abnormally large people living somewhere between Scandinavia and the middle east?

To answer this question, so far as the internet reveals, the two words appear to be unrelated, Nephilim seems to have its root in a Hebrew word meaning "to fall." Niflheim seems to mean "land of mists" with "Nifle" having a shared root with the Latin nebula (cloud) and Sanscrit nabhas (sky).