judaism

The 'material line of judaism' is the AFRICAN people of Egypt.
ALL THREE of abrahams religions are from EGYPTians!
FACT!

Not quite...
Many religions take in traditions from other cultures: The Christmas tree comes from ancient pagan traditions, and was adopted in when many converted.
Even so, Abraham and Judaism came about 400 years before Jews were slaves in Egypt.
The reasoning for the Maternal line of Judaism, as I said above, is because a witness could prove whoyour mother was, but not who your father was.
(But that COULD have come from the African people)
Or maybe great minds think alike
 
Not quite...
Many religions take in traditions from other cultures: The Christmas tree comes from ancient pagan traditions, and was adopted in when many converted.
Even so, Abraham and Judaism came about 400 years before Jews were slaves in Egypt.

oooops!

All of torah was supposedly written by Moses; and since Moses was raised in the house of Pharoah his whole rearing (per torah), then there is no religion of judaism prior to moses, with any documentation to support that claim other than from torah (OT)

that reality is what you need to comes to terms with

the religion tried to define itself in retrospective writtings

The reasoning for the Maternal line of Judaism, as I said above, is because a witness could prove whoyour mother was, but not who your father was.

but NON can prove who Moses mother or father was, let alone abram, or adam

that is why his name is moses (the son of) with no name (Ramesis; son of Ra)
 
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can u prove it?

with much more material evidence, then any human alive could use to try and prove God created the religions.


as all three, present their roots to Genesis, Torah, OT............. as well scientifically, the genetic roots of "mankind" return to Africa being mankinds 'garden of eden'.

As well, in all three; the oldest populations maintained for all three religions is found in africa.

Perhaps do a little homework
 
but NON can prove who Moses mother or father was, let alone abram, or adam

that is why his name is moses (the son of) with no name (Ramesis; son of Ra)

You're right! Never thought of that. Good catch.
 
Judaism is not based on womens X chromosome,but on the 12 sons of Isaac,and their Y chromosome. the law ofwich the mother have to be a woman,is not from biblical times. plz refere to Torah ,old testament if it is. i double checked it with a jewish rabi ,ashkenazi rabi where i live,and he said it started around 1700.that because loads of jewish women were raped,so they had to accept their children as jews.that is what he said to me.

how it all started,is in the other thread.

even if a witness can tell who the mother is,then he can not tell who HER FATHER WAS,it could have been anyone. and from then we start again. :)
 
It have never been a land called Israel or Yeretz israel,according to the history. Abraham lived around 1800 BC in Ur, Babylon (Mesopotamia, now Iraq), Can’aan (Palestine), and later in Makkah. He is the ancestor of Jews, and Arabs, and ideologically, of all Christians and Muslims. Isaac was his son from Sarah, and Ishmael (Ismail) was his son from Hagar (Hajirah) From his son Isaac descended Jacob (Israel) and the Children of Israel. Through his other son, Ishmael descended the Arabs and God’s last Messenger, Muhammad, the exalted.

Abraham’s father Azar, as the Chief Priest, was the most powerful man in Babylon, next only to the King. As the progeny of Azar, Abraham and Ishmael were entitled to the luxurious and powerful office of the Chief Priesthood in the court of King Nimrod. But they sacrificed all temptation in order to follow the Commands of God and strove to establish True Monotheism wherever they lived.

[Footnote: Midyan was the name of Prophet Abraham’s son from his third wife, Qatoora. His progeny had settled in the Arabian Peninsula as well, and Prophet Shoaib (Jethro) was sent to the Midyans during the times of Moses]


OT 23 THE BOOK OF ISAIAH

11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

MY HUMBLE RESEARCH: The lost tribes of Israel had migrated to Afghanistan and Kashmir, and in time, embraced Islam. Encyclopedia Americana, 'Lost Ten Tribes' vol XVII.

The House of Israel had divided into two clashing factions after Prophet Solomon's death in 928 BC. His mighty kingdom got split into a northern kingdom called Israel with its capital Samaria, and a southern kingdom called Judah with its capital Jerusalem.

The two tribes of Benjamin and Judah inhabited the southern kingdom whereas the remaining ten tribes lived in the northern kingdom.

Assyrians (the ancient West Asian Empire) invaded the Samarians and took them captive to their capital Nineveh in 721 BC. Since then, they have been so mysteriously scattered through history that they are still referred to as the lost tribes of Israel! Some surviving Samarians intermarried with the Assyrians, and their progeny has been called Samaritans. Only about 500 of the Samaritans are surviving in the present day Israel.

The other kingdom, Judah, based in Jerusalem was invaded and completely devastated by the king of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar, in 586 BC. He destroyed Solomon's Temple and took the two tribes captive to Babylon.

King Cyrus the Great of Persia, after defeating Babylon in 538 BC, allowed the surviving 5% (about 50,000 out of a total of one million) Jews to gradually return to Jerusalem. This reverse exodus took place over a period of 140 years.

Sadducees and Pharisees were the two major Jewish sects during the times of Jesus Christ. The latter are the only surviving sect of Judaism today, although there has been further schism among them.


An interesting point is that first of all,the original inhabitants of palestine were tha Canaanites,the forefathers of the Palestinians,And the name palestinians is synonymous with "Canaanite".


second,The jews were the tribes that migrated from Egypt to the Land of Canaan,Palestine.Then they lived alongside this people.Third,as generally happens,the people mixed over the years.

then two great religious revulotions happend in Canaan,Palestine. one christianity,other was islam.some converted to islam or christianity.The jews were the only ones who were not affected by these changes,wich encompassed all leveld of society.

Todays jews refer to a forced exile of jews from the land of canaan,wich took place 3000 years ago.In history this even is mentioned in a vague manner,and only on the basis of jewish sources.Not all the jews were exiled by Nebuchadnezzar.Their forced deportation was due to the protests of the canaanites,the true owners of Palestine.

All the important religious political and social changes,such as the advent of christianity and islam,took place 500 to 100 years after this event.The evidence indicates that the jews did not emigrate to the West,and the western ashkenazi jews are the descendants of people who converted to judaism.Only the sephardi ,or eastern jews ,who lived in Iran and Arab countries could claim that there was a time when they had acturally lived in Palestine.Ashkenazi jews are in fact khazars.

They mixed with other jews,but they are not descendent from the 12 sons at all.Genetid testing by isrealis confirm the origin of Ashkenazis,linking them to the people around tha cacus mountains,such as Turks. See Haplogroup R-m17

Ashkenazim have an elevated frequency of R-M17, the dominant Y chromosome haplogroup in Eastern Europeans, suggesting possible gene flow. In the present study of 495 Y chromosomes of Ashkenazim, 57 (11.5%) were found to belong to R-M17. Detailed analyses of haplotype structure, diversity and geographic distribution suggest a founder effect for this haplogroup, introduced at an early stage into the evolving Ashkenazi community in Europe. R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazim may represent vestiges of the mysterious
Khazars.

Ashkenazim were found to have a significantly higher frequency of the R-M17 haplogroup compared with Sephardic and Kurdish Jews. Interestingly, Behar et al6 reported R-M17 to be the dominant haplogroup in Ashkenazi Levites (52%), although rare in Ashkenazi Cohanim (1.3%) and Israelites (4%). R-M17, the most common haplogroup in Eastern Europe, was suggested to have originated and started to expand in the Ukraine, probably in a Paleolithic population after the Last Glacial Maximum about 13 000 years ago.
The average frequency of the haplogroup R-M17 in Ashkenazi Jews (11.5%, 57 individuals) is significantly higher (P<0.05) than that in Sephardic Jews (3.9%), Kurdish Jews (4%) and Palestinian Arabs (1.4%).

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=93244
 
Thats a lot of information to take in at one time.

You may be interested in Shlomo Zand's book

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/959229.html

Its not yet available in English though.

Is there any evidence that the Jews descended from one son and the Arabs from another? Is there a common Y chromosome origin for Arabs and Jews?
 
thank you for your link. i have done a humble research on different things,adn yes its loads of information. but then again,whats the point of livin in the light,if we are closing our eyes :):):)
 
Thats a lot of information to take in at one time.

You may be interested in Shlomo Zand's book

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/959229.html

Its not yet available in English though.

Is there any evidence that the Jews descended from one son and the Arabs from another? Is there a common Y chromosome origin for Arabs and Jews?

The Quran called them bani israel. Abrahams son isaac was also called israel. Bani israel mean children of Israel,becaue he had 12 sons. After a while,they were about to establish Gods Law ,wich was given to them through Torah. The original jews,have some similiar genes to the arabs. But there is no jewish race,because u can find indian jews (beni israel)spanish jews,italian jews,Ethiopian jews ,iranian jews ,maroccan jews....


واذ جعلنا البيت مثابة للناس وامنا واتخذوا من مقام ابراهيم مصلي وعهدنا الي ابراهيم واسماعيل ان طهرا بيتي للطائفين والعاكفين والركع السجود
2:125

Remember, We appointed the House a means to achieve unity among all mankind, and thus, a source of peace and security. So, attain the stature of Abraham recalling his firm stand for closely following the Divine Commands. We did take a Covenant from Abraham and Ishmael, “Keep My House clean of all falsehood for those who rally around it and those who strive hard for the noble objective and those who submit in humility to the Divine Commands.”

[AlBait = The House = Ka’bah = The Symbolic House of God in Makkah = The meeting point for all mankind = The Source of peace, security and unity for all humanity. 2:142-143, 3:96, 5:97, 14:35, 22:25. Musalla = The ways to obey God. MaqameIbrahim = The stature of Abraham = The stand he took. Taifa = Those who might be diverse in color and geography but united in Ideology. Taaif = Watchman = Custodian = One who stands guard. Taifeen = Caretakers of humanity = Guardians of human rights. ‘Akafa = To prevent schism and discord = Set things right. ‘Aakifeen = Those who strive for a noble objective = Those who prevent divisions = Who set things right.

Ismail = Ishmael resided permanently in Makkah, while his father kept traveling between Hagar (Haajirah) in Makkah and Sarah in Can’aan (Palestine). Ishmael married a woman from the Qahtani Tribe of Jurham and became the ancestor of Musta Ribah (Arabianized tribes or the early Arabs). So the Arabs are, interestingly, descendants of a Hebrew father, Ishmael and a Qahtani Jurham mother from the Arabian Peninsula. They had twelve sons in their long and happy married life. The Qahtanis are still abundantly found in Arabia. They were a wandering tribe in Southern Arabia who had settled in Makkah before Ishmael, because of the (contrary to popular legend) preexisting well of ZamZam. The “Wilderness of BeerSheba” of Genesis 21/14, embraces the Southern Palestine, and Hijaz (the midwestern Arabia). Therefore, the Bible and the Qur’an are in agreement concerning where Ishmael and his mother Hagar had settled after moving from Can’aan.

Here is a glimpse of history about Hagar and Ishmael as found in the Bible.

Genesis 17/20 As for Ishmael, I have heard you (O Abraham); behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.

Genesis 21/17 And God heard the voice of the lad (Ishmael); and the angel of God called to Hagar from the heavens, and said to her, “What troubles you, Hagar? Fear not; for God has heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him fast with your hand; for I will make him a great nation.

Genesis 21/20 And God was with the lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran (Faran, Makkah).

This history also explains why the Qur’an repeatedly asserts that the Arabs had not received any Scripture before the Qur’an. The Arabs, being the descendants of Ishmael, could only become a community long after Ishmael had passed on and when his progeny had multiplied with time. Note: The Valley was a barren land, but Abraham settled his family in the town of Makkah, near the soon to be built Ka’bah. So, contrary to popular legends, Abraham never left his family in the isolation of a desert]
 
oooops!

All of torah was supposedly written by Moses;
That's going into Judeo-Christian Theology: Some belive God wrote it, some believe Moses wrote it, inspired by god.

and since Moses was raised in the house of Pharoah his whole rearing (per torah), then there is no religion of judaism prior to moses
Your veiw is wrong because the religion of Judaism didn't start with the writing of the torah- it started with Abraham realising that there is only one true god. Yes, Moses WAS raised by The pharaoh's duaghter, but being raised in the Pharaoh's palace made no influence on the torah.

with any documentation to support that claim other than from torah (OT)
that reality is what you need to comes to terms with
the religion tried to define itself in retrospective writting
but NON can prove who Moses mother or father was, let alone abram, or adam that is why his name is moses (the son of) with no name (Ramesis; son of Ra

Well... OK, there isn't any documentation of Moses's birth parents other than in the torah, but since all religions are, at some level, based on what are in the religion undisputable truths, The fact that there is that documentation is enough. Would you claim that one witness, with no others going against them, is the not enough to say what happened?
At a level, you've got to accept that sometimes just one documentation of somthing is enough.

with much more material evidence, then any human alive could use to try and prove God created the religions.
as all three, present their roots to Genesis, Torah, OT............. as well scientifically, the genetic roots of "mankind" return to Africa being mankinds 'garden of eden'.
As well, in all three; the oldest populations maintained for all three religions is found in africa.
Perhaps do a little homework

Well, yeah, but the fact that all humans came from africa doesn't mean that all religions spring from african religions.
And while maybe all 3 monotheisms' oldest population maintaianed are in in africa (That one I didn't look up), it Still doesn't mean that all religions spring from ancient eygpt
 
Your veiw is wrong because the religion of Judaism didn't start with the writing of the torah- it started with Abraham realising that there is only one true god.

Thats debatable. Available evidence suggests that the Hebrews adopted the religion and God of the Canaanites

For the Canaanites, Eli or Il was the supreme god, the father of mankind and all creatures.[7] He may have been a desert god at some point, as the myths say that he had two wives and built a sanctuary with them and his new children in the desert. El had fathered many gods, but most important were Hadad, Yam, and Mot, each share similar attributes to the GrecoRoman gods: Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades respectively.

Three pantheon lists found at Ugarit begin with the four gods ’il-’ib (which according to Cross [1973; p. 14] is the name of a generic kind of deity, perhaps the divine ancestor of the people), Ēl, Dagnu (that is Dagon), and Ba’l Ṣapān (that is the god Haddu or Hadad). Though Ugarit had a large temple dedicated to Dagon and another to Hadad, there was no temple dedicated to Ēl.

Ēl is called again and again Tôru ‘Ēl ("Bull Ēl" or "the bull god"). He is bātnyu binwāti ("Creator of creatures"), ’abū banī ’ili ("father of the gods"), and ‘abū ‘adami ("father of man"). He is qāniyunu ‘ôlam ("creator eternal"), the epithet ‘ôlam appearing in Hebrew form in the Hebrew name of God ’ēl ‘ôlam "God Eternal" in Genesis 21.23. He is ḥātikuka ("your patriarch"). Ēl is the grey-bearded ancient one, full of wisdom, malku ("king"), ’abū šamīma ("father of years"), ’ēl gibbōr ("Ēl the warrior"). He is also named lṭpn of unknown meaning, variously rendered as Latpan, Latipan, or Lutpani ("shroud-face" by Strong's Hebrew Concordance).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(god)

Is there any evidence of Judaism before Moses?

Apparently even the term Hebrew was used by others and not by the Hebrews themselves
Hebrews (or Hebertes, Eberites, Hebreians; Hebrew: עברים or עבריים, Standard ʿIvrim, ʿIvriyyim Tiberian ʿIḇrîm, ʿIḇriyyîm, "traverse or pass over") are an ancient people defined as descendants of the prophet Heber, son of Shaleh.

In the Bible, the patriarch Abraham is referred to a single time as the ivri, which is the singular form of the Hebrew-language word for Hebrew (plural ivrim, or ibrim). But the term Hebrew almost always occurs in the Old Testament as a name given to the Israelites by other peoples, rather than one used by themselves.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews

And the term Israelites is not used only for Jews:

"Israelites" as used in the Bible includes both descendants of Jacob who followed the Jewish faith as well as apostates who turned to other gods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israelites

Tacitus, the Roman historian has given an entirely different account of Judaism

Moyses, wishing to secure for the future his authority over the nation, gave them a novel form of worship, opposed to all that practised by other men. Things sacred with us, with them have no sanctity, while they allow what with us is forbidden. In their holy place they have consecrated an image of the animal by whose guidance they found deliverance from their long and thirsty wanderings. They slay the ram, seemingly in derision of Hammon, and they sacrifice the ox, because the Egyptians worship it as Apis. They abstain from swines flesh, in consideration of what they suffered when they were infected by the leprosy to which this animal is liable.

http://www.skeptically.org/oldtestament/id8.html
 
Moses did not call himself a yehudi ,or the people for yehudi .

5:12

Indeed God made a Covenant with the Children of Israel. We appointed twelve leaders among them. God said to them, “I am with you so long as you follow the Divine Commands, spend your wealth for the community, believe in My messengers, assist them, and give a beautiful loan to God (that is paid back to you manifold in both lives 2:261). I will absolve your imperfections, help you create balance in the society and admit you to Gardens with rivers flowing beneath. But, whoever among you disbelieves after this, will go astray from the Right Path.”

it was not only Judah (word yehudi derived from Judah,one of the 12 brothers)who was the leader.




فبما نقضهم ميثاقهم لعناهم وجعلنا قلوبهم قاسية يحرفون الكلم عن مواضعه ونسوا حظا مما ذكروا به ولا تزال تطلع علي خائنة منهم الا قليلا منهم فاعف عنهم واصفح ان الله يحب المحسنين
5:13

When they broke their Promise, We rejected them and Our Law caused their hearts to harden. So, now they change words from their context and ignore a good part of the Message, forgetting what they were told to bear in mind. (O Prophet) You will not cease to discover betrayal from all but a few of them. Pardon them and forbear. Indeed, God loves those who serve humanity.


ومن الذين قالوا انا نصاري اخذنا ميثاقهم فنسوا حظا مما ذكروا به فاغرينا بينهم العداوة والبغضاء الي يوم القيامة وسوف ينبئهم الله بما كانوا يصنعون
5:14

We also made a Covenant with those who say, “We are Christians.” But they ignored a good part of the Message that was sent to them and forgot what they were told to bear in mind. As a result, Our Law has caused enmity and hatred among them till the Resurrection Day, when God will inform them of what they contrived, (Rivalry based upon Sectarianism and Nationalism, a natural consequence of deviating from the True Message, whether people call themselves Jews, Christians or Muslims.)
 
Thats debatable. Available evidence suggests that the Hebrews adopted the religion and God of the Canaanites
And other evidence argues otherwise: Keep reading



Is there any evidence of Judaism before Moses?
There's the torah, a written boigraphy of what happened. To those who are skeptical of this evidence, what proof will there be of you in 2000 years besides what was written or told down from one generation to the next?

Apparently even the term Hebrew was used by others and not by the Hebrews themselves
And the term Israelites is not used only for Jews:
Tacitus, the Roman historian has given an entirely different account of Judaism
The terms Hebrew, Jew and Israelite ae all diffrent terms. The word Hebrew comes from the bible, known as Ivri, or hebrew, the people who crossed over, the people who came from the other sde of the river.
not all sons of abraham continued his beliefs- Ishmael later became the father of the hebrew nation.
Jew comes from the word Judah- one of the two tribes that weren't lost. it was much bigger than it's sister tribe Benjamin, so nearly all jew come from Judah.
Being an Israeli/ Israelite means living in Israel- regardless of religion.
Even so, many of those words could have come from somewhere else-
Let's make a pretend town wher one word is given to people who read alot: Bookers. Now let's pretend a religion starts that worships books. These people might call themselves 'Bookers' and over take the original meaning of the word. It doesn't matter who used it then, it's who uses it now.
As for skeptically.org, not eating pigs come from this:
Rabbi sees a man eat pig
Rabbi see man who eat pig die
Rabbi makes new law: No more eating pigs!
Understand
 
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That's going into Judeo-Christian Theology: Some belive God wrote it, some believe Moses wrote it, inspired by god.
Every religion says 'he did it' ..."he inspired it'.... 'his word' ....'his intent'.....'what he wants'....

the MO is standard across the board!

Your veiw is wrong because the religion of Judaism didn't start with the writing of the torah- it started with Abraham realising that there is only one true god.
but that information is NO WHERE except in TORAH

Meaning the history is prepared by the book itself, rather than ANY outside verifying documentation.

Yes, Moses WAS raised by The pharaoh's duaghter, but being raised in the Pharaoh's palace made no influence on the torah.
That is just foolish to suggest.

It is like saying; if yu were raised by Donald Trump since birth, that you would not know what it is like to sit on a golden toilet.

EVERY WORD, bit of knowledge and education came from the pharoahs house and what HE learned

and the ONLY way to side step that FACT is to believe God magically intervened

Well... OK, there isn't any documentation of Moses's birth parents other than in the torah, but since all religions are, at some level, based on what are in the religion undisputable truths,

ther is no such thing as 'religion undisputable truths'.........unless you said; it is literature.

The fact that there is that documentation is enough.
What documentation?

The book is trying to define itself; torah making torahs history; is like saying einstein created himself.

Would you claim that one witness, with no others going against them, is the not enough to say what happened?

there is many going against religious beliefs (especially torah)


At a level, you've got to accept that sometimes just one documentation of somthing is enough.
not when it is theology outdated a couple thousand years ago.

Well, yeah, but the fact that all humans came from africa doesn't mean that all religions spring from african religions.
the abrahamic sects are all based from torah and they EVOLVED from there; fact!

and since moses was raised since the booby days into manhood, then the language, education and knowledge was learned from the pharoahs domain of egypt.

they all got their roots from african............... kind of basic, just esoteric as it leans on reality versus beliefs.

And while maybe all 3 monotheisms' oldest population maintaianed are in in africa (That one I didn't look up), it Still doesn't mean that all religions spring from ancient eygpt

never said ALL religions.............. i said the three ladies were!


but please do the homework on Islam, Judaism and Christianity...... find what i mentioned is true!
 
What evidence?
I meant to keep reading, below is what I mean: the torah.
I'll try to be more clear in the future

Every religion says 'he did it' ..."he inspired it'.... 'his word' ....'his intent'.....'what he wants'....
the MO is standard across the board!
but that information is NO WHERE except in TORAH
Meaning the history is prepared by the book itself, rather than ANY outside verifying documentation.
That is just foolish to suggest.
Exactly- which is why the Torah is written as a biography, with God as witness writing it.

It is like saying; if you were raised by Donald Trump since birth, that you would not know what it is like to sit on a golden toilet.
EVERY WORD, bit of knowledge and education came from the pharoahs house and what HE learned
and the ONLY way to side step that FACT is to believe God magically intervened
And that's what happened. God wrote the torah, and gave it to Moses. No ideas that were impressed upon him, if any, were impressed upon the Torah

there is no such thing as 'religion undisputable truths'.........unless you said; it is literature.
What documentation?
The book is trying to define itself; torah making torahs history; is like saying einstein created himself.
Once agian, I am sorry if what I said is unclear: The 'Undisputable truths' are things that are so believed that there is no argument over them- such as the fact that there is only one God, and that he is good

there is many going against religious beliefs (especially torah)
:frust: Man, I'm like a car with no windsheild wipers in a hurricane, amn't I?
I really need to be more clear with my analogies!
I ment imagine this: There's a court case going on and there isn't any evidence to prove the defendent guilty. Suddenly, a witness comes up with no other evidence than what he says against the Defendant. Isn't that enough?


not when it is theology outdated a couple thousand years ago.
ok! :huh:Let's also get rid of fire, since that's outdated too, isn't it?
The religion has changed with the times, so don't think that it's the same as when started: Reform and conservative update laws to fit modern times (The traditional look stands out like a sore thumb)


the abrahamic sects are all based from torah and they EVOLVED from there; fact!
:confused: Now I'm Not the one being unclear

and since moses was raised since the booby days into manhood, then the language, education and knowledge was learned from the pharoahs domain of egypt.
yes. but he also learned things from god.
And god wrote the torah

they all got their roots from african............... kind of basic, just esoteric as it leans on reality versus beliefs.


never said ALL religions.............. i said the three ladies were!
Even so, none of of those three came from ancient Egypt's gods

but please do the homework on Islam, Judaism and Christianity...... find what i mentioned is true!
I'm sorry i didn't look up the fact on the religions' oldest populations, but that's the only fact i didn't look up. The rest I reaserched.
and you view isn't right
 
I meant to keep reading, below is what I mean: the torah.
I'll try to be more clear in the future

But the Torah was written in Moses time and even for that the evidence is only the Torah and to some extent the writings of Roman historians, except that by the time of the destruction of the second temple, there was no evidence of the first temple even existing, except from Jewish writings.

Plus, there is no evidence that the Hebrews were the Israelis or vice versa, except from Jewish writings, also after the destruction of the second temple.

And I see no evidence from you that contradicts the El to elohim transformation of the Canaanite God to the Judaic God. And there is absolutely NO evidence of any Judaic religion before Moses. Not a single reference to Abraham or his religion, not a single piece of religious scripture. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Sifar.

Even what we know about Judaism today begins 500 years after Moses

The Jewish Nation
The Jewish nation came into being in the 10th century B.C. after the reign of King Solomon, some 300 to 500 years after the time of Moses. After the reign of King Solomon, the nation of Israel split into two kingdoms: a northern kingdom and a southern kingdom. The southern kingdom consisted of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and the Levites dispersed among those tribes. The northern kingdom consisted of the tribes of Asher, Dan, Ephraim, Gad, Issachar, Manasseh, Naphtali, Reuben, Simeon, Zebulon, and the Levites dispersed among those tribes. The southern kingdom came to be associated with Judah, the dominant southern tribe. The northern kingdom came to be associated with Ephraim, the dominant northern tribe. In 721 B.C., the Assyrian empire exiled and dispersed the northern kingdom of Israel among the nations. The Israelites of the former northern kingdom assimilated with the nations, losing their identity (see Ephraim: the Fullness of the Gentiles). A remnant of the southern kingdom, however kept its identity despite a Babylonian exile in the 6th century B.C. and a worldwide dispersion caused by the Romans in the first and second centuries A.D. The Jewish people, as we know them today, are the identifiable remnant of Israel's southern kingdom.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/3021/moses.html

And much of the above is based on the Palestinian Talmud, written after the Bar Kokhba revolt.
 
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But the Torah was written in Moses time and even for that the evidence is only the Torah and to some extent the writings of Roman historians, except that by the time of the destruction of the second temple, there was no evidence of the first temple even existing, except from Jewish writings.
Y'know, other things have been proven when only one source of evidence backs it up, simply because it was the only trace proving r disproving it

Plus, there is no evidence that the Hebrews were the Israelis or vice versa, except from Jewish writings, also after the destruction of the second temple.
:wallbang:Excuse me but i've just got to shout- :soapbox: HEBREWS, JEWS, AND ISREALIS AREN'T THE SAME THING! - Sorry, just had to say that.

And I see no evidence from you that contradicts the El to elohim transformation of the Canaanite God to the Judaic God. And there is absolutely NO evidence of any Judaic religion before Moses. Not a single reference to Abraham or his religion, not a single piece of religious scripture. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Sifar.
May I see proof for The El to elohim transition?

Even what we know about Judaism today begins 500 years after Moses
Unless you cunt the torah

And much of the above is based on the Palestinian Talmud, written after the Bar Kokhba revolt.
Revised from the original, not made from nothing.
 
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