Jesus the conman

A

alexb123

The Amish web page is fast!
Valued Senior Member
It is a common problem with rogue traders that they will knock on vulnerable peoples doors and say your roof is damaged we will repair it for however much, despite the fact that the roof needs no work.

Is this not the same as Jesus? I have died for your sins even though this is not work anyone asked me to do. You only think you need this work done because I am telling you that you do and because I am a higher power, and I know best. Now in return I not only want your money, I want to control your whole life. And then I want you to go out and control other people's lives for me.

OOps and to add to the con I didn't really die anyway, I just went back to live with Daddy.

Also there is no proof that any of this happened anyway, so you will have to trust history and all those who spread the word of the good lord. Like the Pope who instigated wars, or the Romans who liked their wars as well, or the child molesting Priests etc etc. Yes in fact the word of the good Lord was spread by some of the most evil people on earth. Yet more reason to sign your life over.

If someone knocked on my door selling Religion and I knew nothing about it apart from the aspects I had mentioned here, I would call the Police. The rest of religion’s story is just designed to cover up the con.

In fact one big con. Happy Easter.
 
Lets see...

-He never said he wanted our money

-People of that day in that region already gave their lives for God... not like he was asking for much there

-Jesus doesnt control your life... thats called mind control... we have free will... you are either confused or you are morphing this to make it sound even worse. He asks you to follow his ways, he doesnt command you... obviously people have the choice, if not... wouldnt we all be Christian? He also tells people to spread his word and to try to reconvert... but not to force conversion... he never once says to force conversion... and if you think about it at one perspective, according to his beliefs, he is trying to help you achieve, so stop whining and just say "no thanks." Many athiests and agnostics and thiests of other religions try to disprove my religion and tell me their way is better... and yet thats somehow not trying to convert me...

-Dying and going to 'daddy' is still dying... hence why it is said he DIED... its perfectly possible to DIE and then go somewhere else... look at those who believe in reincarnation... you just dont believe it, so you twist up the idea so its not possible...

-The bible is our source... many things have only one source in history... the bible is not proven... but the story of Jesus has not been disproven... so stop getting all mad cause people disagree with you and get over it, people disagree all the time

-Sure Popes have instigated wars... so have seculars... oh noes... because one secular calls for war, they must all be wrong... bullshit

-So we are wrong because the romans had wars? People have wars .... most nations have had wars, or atleast the powerful ones... so we are all wrong...

-Yea some priests molest children... barely any amount, and those are bad apples... so the teachings are wrong because some followers dont listen? my ass!

-Happy Easter to u too
 
You need to read the book by Josh McDowell Evidence that demands a verdict. Amazing just how much historical evidence there is that supports the Bibles claims, and that is historical evidence that isn't even pro christian. God comming to Earth affected a lot of people and a lot of people wrote about it, not just Christian.

And don't blame what the Romans did on the Christians. Romans blamed everything on the Christians back in the day, and killed thousands of them (I may be misunderstanding your remark there though, it could just be a comparison???)

Now you say Jesus sold something we don't need? SOOO we don't need any help with our lives? We're all just perfect, or at least we're getting better right? You should've told that to the that mother in the news before she went and murdered her three children, "look lady you don't need anything moral or anti evil, you're fine as you are, alright"??????

You're being very narrow minded in your condemnation of Christianity. Just because someone says they a Christian doesn't make them a Christian. If someone said they were an Athiest and went out and molested little children and started wars, would a Christian then say it is due to your religious beliefs that you did this? Of course not, or else they are idiots. So don't try to turn it around in order to condemn Christians. Every time the Devil can make someone think a Christian is causing atrosities, he wins a little victory that affects people like you.

"Now in return I not only want your money, I want to control your whole life. And then I want you to go out and control other people's lives for me."

Do you think so? I thought Jesus only wanted us to believe in Him and to love Him. And that because we believe in Him and love Him we want to spend our money on Holy things out of appreciation, and that because Jesus saved us we want to save others. Also I thought that we either live for worldly things or live our lives for Jesus. Jesus says the world is in darkness and that He wants to show us the light and for us to give and live our lives in it. Because we were slaves to darkness, yet Jesus has set us free.... SORRY I've been reading too much of my Bible, no wonder I've been finding out all this wrong info about christianity. Since when does the bible have anything to do with Christian belief? Hmmm that doesn't make sense now does it?

Sorry about the sarcasm but I want to get a strong point across, because you made a strong condemnation of Christianity, please be more thoughtful next time and research a bit more into Christian theology before condeming it. I want to give a response which shows mutual respect for a study of truth or lies, but when you come at us Christians like that I can only respond in like manner. No wonder so many Athiests think Chrsitians are hypocritical stuck up idiots, because that's the way you engage us, and that's the way we are forced to respond. I could be wrong, there should be a way for me to respond differently, however I am only human and still seem to treat others like they treat me.

Anyway if you understand any of my ramblings I hope that it at leasts sheds a new light on what you condem.

CyA
 
"You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The jesus myth appears to be unsupported by any evidence other than the bible. "

It's amazing what things appear to be like before you actually seek the truth. The world is flat isn't it?
 
answers said:
"You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The jesus myth appears to be unsupported by any evidence other than the bible. "

It's amazing what things appear to be like before you actually seek the truth. The world is flat isn't it?
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It is seeking the truth or believing the lies?
 
Lol I say seeking the truth (Christ) or believing the lies (the world tells you 24/7) as well. But I don't think that is what you meant. Honestly please just look into it. Ignore everything else I say, ignore me as a person don't judge Christianity by me, but actually look into it. I've got some really good books for athiests who ask some very tough questions, and although the truthful answers aren't easy to find, they are worth the search. Preconcieved beliefs kill the efforts of seekers of truth. You'll never believe something if you are never willing to. Look I've listened to lectures by Athiests making fun of Christians and putting the (Victim) Christian down that they are talking to. Saying things like, 'well if Mary was a virgin then Jesus didn't get any of His lineage from David because Joseph was the one who's lineage was recorded to david' if you look for anti Christian proof you will find things like this. But if you look for truth you will find things like, Jesus didn't get His lineage to david from Joseph, Josephs lineage is recorded in Matthew, Marry's is recorded in John, and Marry's lineage goes back to David as well! See, the truth. When you see the truth, something that makes athiests laugh at you, makes athiests think again (hopefully). I have found so many cases of athiests thinking they have a full proof argument against Christianity, but because they have never been open to the truth or tried to find it, they never do find it! Please don't laugh at Christianity untill you've searched for the truth. I want to see you in Heaven, I don't want you to miss out on that blessing.
 
Provita said:
Lets see...

-He never said he wanted our money

-People of that day in that region already gave their lives for God... not like he was asking for much there

-Jesus doesnt control your life... thats called mind control... we have free will... you are either confused or you are morphing this to make it sound even worse. He asks you to follow his ways, he doesnt command you... obviously people have the choice, if not... wouldnt we all be Christian? He also tells people to spread his word and to try to reconvert... but not to force conversion... he never once says to force conversion... and if you think about it at one perspective, according to his beliefs, he is trying to help you achieve, so stop whining and just say "no thanks." Many athiests and agnostics and thiests of other religions try to disprove my religion and tell me their way is better... and yet thats somehow not trying to convert me...

-Dying and going to 'daddy' is still dying... hence why it is said he DIED... its perfectly possible to DIE and then go somewhere else... look at those who believe in reincarnation... you just dont believe it, so you twist up the idea so its not possible...

-The bible is our source... many things have only one source in history... the bible is not proven... but the story of Jesus has not been disproven... so stop getting all mad cause people disagree with you and get over it, people disagree all the time

-Sure Popes have instigated wars... so have seculars... oh noes... because one secular calls for war, they must all be wrong... bullshit

-So we are wrong because the romans had wars? People have wars .... most nations have had wars, or atleast the powerful ones... so we are all wrong...

-Yea some priests molest children... barely any amount, and those are bad apples... so the teachings are wrong because some followers dont listen? my ass!

-Happy Easter to u too
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- I agree with you that Jesus never said he wanted our money. But Religions all want their believer’s money. Jesus didn't con anyone he can't partake in the con, because he is the con.

- Religion does control your life other wise why be religious in the first place. A true Christian/Muslim will live and breathe his faith. This is mind control at its best, because people don't believe it is mind control. Also you talk of freewill and how lucky we are that God gave it to us. Well if he did give it to us it was only to take it back with threats of burning in Hell. I live by freewill because I am secular.

- Christ did not die in the same way that me or you will die, he moved on. To die means "To cease living; become dead; expire." Ok he suffered pain but he must have known that as he had remained perfect he would live on. It was a bad few days for him I will give him that, but he did well out of it in the end.

- How do you disprove the story of Jesus? It is very hard to find evidence for something that did happen 2000 years ago, let alone proving something didn't happen. There are only a couple of none Christian accounts of Jesus, Plimmy (sp) the younger etc. If you think that Paper of some form had been around for 1000 plus years before Jesus was on earth then these few accounts don't seem enough. Surely there would have been many more recordings of Jesus and the miracles. Also it is well documented that almost all the stories from the Bible have been documented in Greek mythology etc. The Antiquity is known for Myths the Bible is just the greatest of them all. It’s just a group of Myths converted in to a con. .

- Ok its fine for Pope's to order Wars then? I thought the Pope's contact with God and his followers, was to love your fellow man etc. The Pope if doing his job correctly should be the last person to ever start a war. Anyone who is secular does not have this moral code to follow. However seculars seem to start wars less, or at the very least there isn’t a lot in it.

- The comments about the Romans was that they used Christianity to try to gain control over a falling empire. This directly led to significant spread of Christianity but not due to a love of God. Again it was another con. The Bible has been used to con people for different reasons since it was first penned. Look at the Black slaves for another fine example of using the Bible to suppress or control people for a selfish and evil gain.

- Priests seem to have more than their fair share of bad apples. And yes if Priests molest children on the level we have seen in the catholic church then YES it does taint your whole Religions’ ethic, it's called accountability and you should except it as such.
 
I'm not catholic, I'm prodestant, so I will simply say that half of Catholics aren't Chrisitians, the Pope least of all, Catholisism in it's truest form is a business to gain power and wealth. They will be held accountable those none Christians, Matthew says for everysingle little thing they did, they will have to answer for, and God will punish them.

Something that I find all the time and find very interesting however is this comment of yours "This is mind control at its best, because people don't believe it is mind control."

You claim you aren't a victim of mind control because you are secular. So you are influenced by secular teaching on the news, documentaries, people's conversations etc... let's say 100% of the time. Now I'm the same except I go to church, so for 1 hour of the 168 hours in a week I am influenced by something other then secular indoctrination, now who is the one more prone to brain washing? The person who finds something that everyone and everything tells him is wrong yet still believes strongly because he is convinced it is truth? Or the person who believes what everyone tells him to believe? I think it shows just how strong someones belief is, and how much they have fought secular brain washing, when they can spend only 1 hour with God a week and yet still hold fast to the truth. Huh guess you could call it a miracle, but secular teaching says they don't exist so I guess you better not then, that's what you've been told 24/7 so I guess it is right. Because what you are told over and over and over again constantly isn't brainwashing is it? No it's what happens to the Christians who spend 1 hour a week searching for truth at Church. How fooled we really are?

Are we? or are you?

I just find it interesting to look at it from a different point of view. Secular humanism doesn't do that though do they? Believe what they tell you 24/7 if you want, but don't assume Christians are the ones being brainwashed. I am independantly minded, able to search truth myself, and my church as well as my Bible command that! We are actually told in the Bible to look into it! We are commanded to look into it! Paul wrote always be ready to give a ready answer for the things of the faith. Does your evolutionary teachers tell you to look into Christianity? That's the true brainwashing, when you are told not to look into things for yourself!
 
answers said:
Lol I say seeking the truth (Christ) or believing the lies (the world tells you 24/7) as well. But I don't think that is what you meant. Honestly please just look into it. Ignore everything else I say, ignore me as a person don't judge Christianity by me, but actually look into it. I've got some really good books for athiests who ask some very tough questions, and although the truthful answers aren't easy to find, they are worth the search. Preconcieved beliefs kill the efforts of seekers of truth. You'll never believe something if you are never willing to. Look I've listened to lectures by Athiests making fun of Christians and putting the (Victim) Christian down that they are talking to. Saying things like, 'well if Mary was a virgin then Jesus didn't get any of His lineage from David because Joseph was the one who's lineage was recorded to david' if you look for anti Christian proof you will find things like this. But if you look for truth you will find things like, Jesus didn't get His lineage to david from Joseph, Josephs lineage is recorded in Matthew, Marry's is recorded in John, and Marry's lineage goes back to David as well! See, the truth. When you see the truth, something that makes athiests laugh at you, makes athiests think again (hopefully). I have found so many cases of athiests thinking they have a full proof argument against Christianity, but because they have never been open to the truth or tried to find it, they never do find it! Please don't laugh at Christianity untill you've searched for the truth. I want to see you in Heaven, I don't want you to miss out on that blessing.
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As it happens I have searched for the truth and I did believe it for a while. My best friend is a witness, as you may well be, due to your talk of the truth.

But my friend is brainwashed and I will show you why and to some degree or another all of these things take place in any religion.

Firstly if a witness leaves the Truth he is excommunicated and you are not allowed contact with that person. It does not matter who it is, your mother, father, son or daughter. How if these people say anything at all bad about their ex-religion they are labelled an apostates. So anything they say has no credibility at all.

Then if the predictions for the end of world etc don't come true as had been the case many times. It is that new evidence has come to light. But it was not wrong in the first place. This is not even common sense.

Also if others try to teach you that your faith is wrong then it is the devil testing you or trying to pull you away from your faith.

Ok from reading the above how would someone who practiced this Religion or any other Religion ever judge the Religion to be wrong? I think they have covered all avenues of accountability. And if you stick to the formula that they have installed in to you, then there is no way out. They do this because they need to cover their con. If people really look in to the flaws in their faith they will see that it’s a fairy story.
 
I am sorry if I have sounded arrogant I totally understand where you are comming from. I hate the Jehoavah's Witness Cult, not the people, but what they do to people. I knew some Ex Jehoavah's Witness's that went to spain to do misionary work for them, and they took a picture of a sign at one of their J.W study rooms which said 'no independant thought allowed'. That's the difference between a cult and a Christian. You know the bible actually says to test everything. Paul actually wrote that even if an angel of light comes down to earth and tells you something, don't believe straight away. Test it. We aren't even supposed to take things which are apparantly from The Holy Spirit as total truth until we test it. Why? Because God knew they'd be cults like J.W and Mormons who would claim that an angel of light told them that this new way is the way to heaven. What do you think Joseph Smith claims? J.W is a brainwashing organisation. They actually recite questions and answers!!!! What is with that! In my study groups we get questions and we all discuss what we think the bible tells us is the answer. We are never even given the answers, we are left to find them ourselves! It is these differences which really matter. It is a horrible thing to never talk to an ex-believer, I feel very sorry for the J.W's that they practise this. No where in the bible does it say to do this, or even hint at it. We are told to help others even beg with them that they would return to the faith, but never are we told to ignore them. We care about their faith because we want to see them in heaven, J.W's care only about their brainwashed fantasies. I'll pray for your J.W friend, it really angers me though that this cult has given you such a bad view of Christianity, as if everyone didn't think badly enough of Christianity already.

J.W's say you need to go door to door to reach heaven, they say Jesus is an angel not God. They miss and distort so much. Jesus said the greatest gift you can give those you love, is to die for them. God gave us the greatest gift, J.W's steal this away from us. They say God didn't give us this gift, but that an angel did. What a loss to them. All we have to do is believe that Jesus paid for our sins and we are saved. The criminal on the cross besides Jesus believed and Jesus said He would see him in paradise. He didn't get baptised, he didn't knock on peoples doors, he simply believed and was saved. Just like so many others in acts and the rest of the new testament. Jesus has done all the work, you only have to accept the work he has done. Please give truth a shot, I sincerely pray and hope that your past encounters with lies and cults which claimed to be the truth doesn't stop you from believing. If you want to here the truth about the bible this guy is a great Preacher and can help you on your discovery but please just give the truth a chance http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...n=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Richard^Caldwell^Jr.
 
"Then if the predictions for the end of world etc don't come true as had been the case many times. It is that new evidence has come to light. But it was not wrong in the first place. This is not even common sense."

lol by the way these prophecies are a crack up, they've changed them like 7 times. They reckon the lights just getting brighter that's why they couldn't see the dates clearly at the start :p They also change their doctrines and teachings a lot as well. One example although not a very nice one, is to do with women being rapped. If a woman screams then she hasn't consented. However they changed that 4 or 5 times over the years to say that she didn't need to scream, but then a year or two latter, she does need to scream or else she's consented and so on. It is a cult built on confusion. I have debated with J.W's on my door step about this, the younger J.W's come back again with older members, and then if the older member judges you a threat they don't come back again. Which happened to me, the younger member said yes I'll come back to discuss with you again, but the older member gave him a look which said no way, and they never returned. This sort of control is non-existent in Prodestant churches. It is very prevalent in Catholic churches though, confess your sins to a mere man! They want to control your salvation and thus control you! Prodestants let the Bible say what the Bible says, and it says once we are saved, once we simply believe we are saved, you are now a child of God, and Jesus won't let you go NO MATTER WHAT! He loves you too much! Don't go to church ever again and you'll still be saved! Don't tell people you are a christian and you'll still be saved! But the truth is because Jesus loves you, you love Him too. And desire to go to church to learn about the one you love. You desire to tell everyone about that love about the love that Jesus died for. It's a huge difference! It is life changing, it is why we are called born again, it's a new life!
 
'answers' your faith is commendable and your knowledge is extensive, and your approach is finely tuned.

However, you talk of testing, how can God be tested? The greatest con is that the Bible tells you that you need faith not proof. In fact the Bible puts it across that the lack of evidence is intentional, as the Bible and love of God must be based on 'faith'. As we all know if there was a God he could prove it to all of us and we would all still have freewill to follow him or not. But due to lack of evidence 'faith' is the key tool used to cover the facts that there really is no true proof.
 
lol you've got me there (to an extent) That's why we're a Faith. I don't really know how to explain it, it's supernatural I guess. It's as if I know what God says is the truth, and by trying it, I have tested it, and afirmed my faith. It's amazing just the day to day things that happen in my walk with God. I see His hand on my life so clearly it's just really cool. For example I left a job washing dishes in a Kitchen because I got into a high and mighty better then thou art mood when the chiefs bought porno to work, and I told them to get rid of it or else I'm quitting. I quit in arrogance, and I know that but I denied it then. But anyway I think God had a joke with me about it to teach me a lesson because my next job was storeman in a lingerie factory :p Just little things like that. Or I've prayed for food when I forgot my lunch at school, and what do you know there were left overs from the previous nights school function and they were on offer in the assembly hall. So many little things that just happen constantly, like today I wasn't paying attention and I accidentally went 10 k's over the speed limit, I looked up and spotted a radar just in time, and somehow I knew God stopped me from getting the fine because I need my license to get to bible college next semester (I don't need it for anything else). Sometimes I can feel so close to God I can even sense His thoughts or feelings, like I can reach out and touch Him. I might stress over money but God provides. I might stress over a job but God provides. I left my storeman job after I got my forklift license because my sister had a better forklift driving job lined up for me for the Railway. God puts me in another job in the mean time which got me driving the forklift 3 hours a day and I learnt heaps, experience which is now essential for me at the Railway. So many little things everyday things which lead me to believe. I guess you can read books about the bible, have a look at manuscripts, study evolution, buddism, new age, islam, and everything else in order to test the Bible and it's message. But I think the only true test is to try it. Live it. And for the right reasons. Many try it just because they've tried everything else and now it's God's turn. This isn't true repentance, this is just curisosity. You've got to try it out of the desire to get rid of your wrongdoings. You've got to realise that you've done bad stuff, and that the payment is eternal seperation from God, because GOd can't stand bad stuff and those who do it. He sent His only Son to pay for your wrongdoings because only someone pefect that didn't deserve the punishment, could take your punishment away. Only God could do it. When you try out Christianity for those reasons, with a desire for salvation, only then does all that amazing changes take place. I tell you what everytime I sin against God it's like my heart is just thrown into depression. I can't stand not living for my God. Someone who loves me so much. I do stupid things still, but they only remind me of just what Jesus has paid for. That knowledge, to test it and find it to be true, is even worth spending your whole night like I have tonight answering questions and talking about God's love to others, because it's that amazing. I want everyone to know it. Though people object to it, because they have had expereinces like you with Jehovahs Witness's, or they believe the stuff they were taught about ape men (which have all been disproven yet are still taught as truth in schools) or they have had families who never bought into that rubbish, all these people from all walks of life have so many objections, all I can pray for and hope to do is try and help people past their objections so that they can see the truth, because I want to see lots of people in heaven, it'll be pretty boring there if I'm the only one lol
 
"your approach is finely tuned." Have a look at my old posts, I was arrogant, argumentative, but recently in the past two weeks I have given up martial arts which I had dedicated myself to for 2 or 3 hours a night, while ignoring God's call on my life to learn about His word and get ready for Bible college, and I've just been reading my Bible, reading books on the Bible, reading apologetics books that deal with critisism of the Bible, listening to sermons a couple a day, it's not been easy to stay motivated, satan has been getting annoyed with me and trying to tempt me to do other things (for example I gave into the temptation to hire out the new star war movies on dvd, I knew God wanted me to study but I went to the dvd place anyway, only to find it had just closed down after like 20 years of trading lol, so I went home and read my Bible, cracked me up lol) But anyway, just focussing on God it has changed even my attitude, I still struggle with being argumentative, but I don't know, God changes people, the more you spend time with Him, the more you change. I'm doing a sermon on this in a week so please excuse me for blabbering on about it, but it's just amazing me right now. Anyway it's Easter Sunday and 2000 years ago Jesus was enjoying a snooze in His tomb right about now, so I better get some sleep before He wakes up and I have to go to church lol.

CyA
 
answers said:
You need to read the book by Josh McDowell Evidence that demands a verdict. Amazing just how much historical evidence there is that supports the Bibles claims,
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The point was that there is no evidence for the existance of Jesus. Which is true. There isn't,

That is unless you have something you'd like to share?
 
Michael said:
The point was that there is no evidence for the existance of Jesus. Which is true. There isn't,

That is unless you have something you'd like to share?
Click to expand...

*************
M*W: Be careful what you asked 'answers' to share with you. He's a "prodestant." He will stick a prod up your heathen ass.
 
I know Med Woman likes to expound on Jesus' non existence. That's ok but I personally find it hard to believe a Jesuslike character did not exist because in some cases the Bible deals with historical fact albeit fuzzy at times. Such being the case I do not for one minute believe He was the son of a god. Whether or not he claimed this or was labelled as such makes no difference.

The fact is this guy's presence affected generations. If he did exist he was pretty smart. In fact he may have border on genius, real MENSA material. Imagine living in an oppressed country where you are head and shoulders smarter than everyone else. Gaining personal wealth while being one of the occupied is probably out of the equation but what you can do is outwit anyone, even the Romans. Claiming to be the son of God, coupled with mental brilliance, would be an excellent defence strategy to stay alive. How many guys on the ways to the gallows have used that one? Even had the Romans thinking about that one.

Flim flam man, maybe. Too smart for the times, probably. Real, whatever. Son of God, no way. Savant-like smarts, I think so.
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
I know Med Woman likes to expound on Jesus' non existence. That's ok but I personally find it hard to believe a Jesuslike character did not exist because in some cases the Bible deals with historical fact albeit fuzzy at times. Such being the case I do not for one minute believe He was the son of a god. Whether or not he claimed this or was labelled as such makes no difference.

The fact is this guy's presence affected generations. If he did exist he was pretty smart. In fact he may have border on genius, real MENSA material. Imagine living in an oppressed country where you are head and shoulders smarter than everyone else. Gaining personal wealth while being one of the occupied is probably out of the equation but what you can do is outwit anyone, even the Romans. Claiming to be the son of God, coupled with mental brilliance, would be an excellent defence strategy to stay alive. How many guys on the ways to the gallows have used that one? Even had the Romans thinking about that one.

Flim flam man, maybe. Too smart for the times, probably. Real, whatever. Son of God, no way. Savant-like smarts, I think so.
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many people would agree with that, if he existed or not. Some people have claimed to be one of the greatest minds to ever exist.
 
"The point was that there is no evidence for the existance of Jesus."

lol I think you'll find historians all agree 9/10 that Jesus existed, just what exactly he was is what people argue about. Read Josh Mc Dowells evidence that demands a verdict, it'll help you out here.

CyA
 
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