Jesus saves, and at today's prices, that's a miracle

[Medicine*Woman]

The OT, NT and Qur'an contradicts Jesus as savior. The ONLY savior is the One God.

The NT says we are responsible for our own deeds:

Galatians 6:4-7, which states “Each man should look to his conduct; if he has reason to boast of anything, it will be because the achievement is his and not another’s.

A man will REAP ONLY what he SOWS.” Galatians 6:4 - 7

Romans 14:12, "Each of us shall give an account of himself to God."

1 Corinthians 3:8, "Each one will receive his own reward according to his own labour."

The OT says:

Psalms 62:12, "Also to you O Lord, belong mercy; for you render to each one according to his work."

Proverbs 24:12, "And will he not render to each man according to his deeds?"

Ezekiel 18;20, "The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself."

If each man reaps what he sows, how can Jesus be the savior? How could he have taken on the sins of mankind and done away with them? Only the One God who accepts repentance and wipes out sins can do that. Indeed throughout the OT, God ALONE is referred to as the SAVIOR. See 2 Samuel 22:1-3 and Isaiah 43:3-11

In Isaiah 43:3 & 11, God Himself speaks saying clearly that He ALONE is the SAVIOR: “For I am the Lord, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your SAVIOR. It is I the Lord; there is NO SAVIOR BUT ME...”.

Hosea 13:4, HE repeats this categorical statement in Hosea: “I am the Lord, your God, since the land of Egypt; You know no God besides me, and there is NO SAVIOR but me.”

Isaiah 44:24 & Isaiah 60:16, There is also a related concept, the idea of a “REDEEMER”. This word has also been exclusively used for God in the Old Testament. “You shall know that I, the Lord am your SAVIOR, your REDEEMER, the mighty one of Jacob.”

The created myth of Jesus being the Savior can only be witnessed in the NT where the alteration has been highly suspected because of its complete contradiction to the OT that came from the same God. God does not change His mind. God does not call Himself the ONLY SAVIOR then decides to change that and call Jesus the Savior. This term describing Jesus as the Savior was used only twice in the NT. This is noted in Luke 2:11 and in John 4:42. Besides these two occurrences, the only other occurrence in the Gospels clearly refers to God, not Jesus: “Then Mary said: “My being proclaims the greatness of the Lord. My spirit finds joy in God, MY SAVIOR, For He has looked upon his servant in her lowliness...” Luke 1:46-48

We cannot ignore the reminder in Isaiah 46:9 where God speaks of Himself: “I am God, there is no other;, I am God, there is none like me.” (La Elaha Ella Allah).

In the Qur'an, God clearly calls Himself the Redeemer and no savior besides Him:

[2:160.15] As for those who repent, reform, and proclaim, I redeem them. I am the Redeemer, Most Merciful.

[4:173.46] As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, He will fully recompense them, and shower them with His grace. As for those who disdain and turn arrogant, He will commit them to painful retribution. They will find no lord beside GOD, nor a savior.

[9:104.22] Do they not realize that GOD accepts the repentance of His worshipers, and takes the charities, and that GOD is the Redeemer, Most Merciful?

[24:10.11] This is GOD's grace and mercy towards you. GOD is Redeemer, Most Wise.

[49:12.54]...You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful.

[110:3.16] You shall glorify and praise your Lord, and implore Him for forgiveness. He is the Redeemer.

The Qur'an confirms the basic principle in the OT and NTs, that a man will reap only what he sows. "Every soul is responsible only for his/her own work" 53:39

"...no soul benefits except from its own work, and none bears the burden of another...." 6:164

We have Only One God who can redeem us, He is the same God who spoke in the Bible, the Gospel and the Quran reminding us that there is no god besides Him.

[Quran 112:1-4] Proclaim, "He is the One and only GOD. The Absolute GOD. Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten. None equals Him."

So, where do Xians get this idea that Jesus saved them? That's blasphemy according to the scriptures. How could they all be wrong?

 

[Flores]

Excellent post MW.

Yesterday again, two babtists came to my house and offered a colored brochure titled, one way ticket to heaven. I took the brochure and tried to close the door, and they asked me to wait, so I aked why? The said, well, don't you want to know how go to heaven. I told them, what else do I need, I have the ticket with me, what else do you want to sell me for free, a first class voucher? They explained that I have to read the prayer on the first page infront of them to be saved....at the time, I was afraid to look at them incase they know how to do a hypnosis.

 

[Jenyar]

Medicine*Woman
Everything you quotes is valid, but you only quote selectively, and that is why you get the impression that God's salvation is something the we can attain by ourselves.

Isaiah 51
4 "Listen to me, my people;
hear me, my nation:
The law will go out from me;
my justice will become a light to the nations.
5 My righteousness draws near speedily,
my salvation is on the way,
and my arm will bring justice to the nations.

Who are you to limit the means of God's salvation - to stay His arm? Jesus is the instrument of God's salvation: like a prophet is God's mouth, and a priest is God's feet, Jesus is God's arm.

John 5:35John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
36"I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me. 37And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent.

Jesus did nothing that God did not do first himself. Jesus was just God's own work made visible and tangible so that not only Israel, but the gentile nations could also believe.

And in case you were wondering whether it isn't beneath God to appoint someone to carry out His salvation:

Isaiah 49
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Jenyar
Medicine*Woman
Everything you quotes is valid, but you only quote selectively, and that is why you get the impression that God's salvation is something the we can attain by ourselves.

Yeah MW. Jenyar is right. How dare you quote selectively. Now, observe the way Jenyar does it, because he never quotes selectively himself. Jenyar is the bible only confined to the teaching of Isiah 49 and 51 and excludes all the bad stuff that MW have posted. Shame on you MW.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by Flores
Yeah MW. Jenyar is right. How dare you quote selectively. Now, observe the way Jenyar does it, because he never quotes selectively himself. Jenyar is the bible only confined to the teaching of Isiah 49 and 51 and excludes all the bad stuff that MW have posted. Shame on you MW.

But.... I learned selective quoting from the Master himself (and, by the way, I'm pretty good on the dance floor, too!)

 

[Jenyar]

Originally posted by Flores
Yeah MW. Jenyar is right. How dare you quote selectively. Now, observe the way Jenyar does it, because he never quotes selectively himself. Jenyar is the bible only confined to the teaching of Isiah 49 and 51 and excludes all the bad stuff that MW have posted. Shame on you MW.

I was filling in what MW left out. I wasn't making some new claim using my selection of quotes.

I was reading up on "fear of God", and I came across these verses that combine that topic with the present one. To obey the word of Jesus as God's servant, God's prophet and God's chosen Son is what Jesus meant when He said "I am the light of the world". Jesus is not some person light of salvation, he is the light provided by God himself.

Isaiah 50
10 Who among you fears the LORD
and obeys the word of his servant?
Let him who walks in the dark,
who has no light,
trust in the name of the LORD
and rely on his God.
11 But now, all you who light fires
and provide yourselves with flaming torches,
go, walk in the light of your fires
and of the torches you have set ablaze.
This is what you shall receive from my hand:
You will lie down in torment.

 

[Proud_Syrian]

Originally posted by Flores
Excellent post MW.

Yesterday again, two babtists came to my house and offered a colored brochure titled, one way ticket to heaven. I took the brochure and tried to close the door, and they asked me to wait, so I aked why? The said, well, don't you want to know how go to heaven. I told them, what else do I need, I have the ticket with me, what else do you want to sell me for free, a first class voucher? They explained that I have to read the prayer on the first page infront of them to be saved....at the time, I was afraid to look at them incase they know how to do a hypnosis.

May Allah save you and protect you dear sister.

You see, this is what i was talking about, those mislead sheeps come knocking doors telling people JESUS is their only way to heaven !! isnt that racist and degrading to other faiths who beg to differ !!!

 

[Jenyar]

Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
May Allah save you and protect you dear sister.

You see, this is what i was talking about, those mislead sheeps come knocking doors telling people JESUS is their only way to heaven !! isnt that racist and degrading to other faiths who beg to differ !!!

God is the only one who can grant access to heaven. But what does that mean to us? How did God choose to promise us His salvation? What do "the other faiths" say?

 

[Guru]

If you want to be saved why bother reading books or believing in any religion ....wait ...saved?? WTF ..saved from what ??? you mean I have to believe under threat??? That sounds like BUSH administration ....

Anyways ... I believe most of the Middle eastern Religions Judaism, Xianity and Islam are all spin off from Sumerian Mythology or stories carried down by different tribes there

...I mean you really must be very insecure to latch on to any religion and follow it like pack of sheep without questioning why you need a religion in the first place...

Russians had a very practical way of bifurcating explainable and unexplainable ....like the period during Big Bang when there were exotic laws of physics unlike we have now ... which could not be explained ...they attributed it to Religion ..now why can't we all say let Science decide what can be explained rather than other way round...Most of the religions will surf on the scientific discoveries saying ...hey didn't we tell you our religion was scientific.... but they will never mention a single debunking of their religion...

I remember reading Koran and I could easily see that some of the lines were pure bullshit packed with GOD's name and his praises...you need to be a bit objective and pick things which follow your logic rather than believing blindly

I am sure if you search your books you will find some verse where they tell you that you should be a real insecure to believe in this crap...

PS: I am posting this again as I could not see my first post ..if this is repeated then please ask your invisible friend to forgive me

 

[Nehushta]

MW,

So, where do Xians get this idea that Jesus saved them? That's blasphemy according to the scriptures. How could they all be wrong?

Because they tend to be the type of people who don't want to do the tough spiritual work themselves - they want to find an easy way out and will desperately grasp at anything that seems to fill the bill. Toward that effort they will deliberately blind themselves to all the OT passages that blatantly declare there is only one god and no savior beside him. They will also conveniently overlook the passages where that same god promised to send a stumblingblock to ensnare the Jews in their idolatry. They ignore the fact that while Jesus was still alive, he maintained that he was sent only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (i.e., the idolatrous Jews of the previous sentence). It was only a later, false ending to the book of Mark that had a Jesus who appeared in a different and unrecognizable form to his disciples, telling them something 180 degrees different than what he told them before his crucifixion, specifically, that they were now to preach the gospel to every living creature. They read the promise that god will send strong delusion to those who have no love of the truth, so that they will believe a lie - and they are completely oblivious to the fact that this means them!

Amazing creatures, Christians.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by Nehushta
MW,
Because they tend to be the type of people who don't want to do the tough spiritual work themselves - they want to find an easy way out and will desperately grasp at anything that seems to fill the bill. Toward that effort they will deliberately blind themselves to all the OT passages that blatantly declare there is only one god and no savior beside him. They will also conveniently overlook the passages where that same god promised to send a stumblingblock to ensnare the Jews in their idolatry. They ignore the fact that while Jesus was still alive, he maintained that he was sent only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (i.e., the idolatrous Jews of the previous sentence). It was only a later, false ending to the book of Mark that had a Jesus who appeared in a different and unrecognizable form to his disciples, telling them something 180 degrees different than what he told them before his crucifixion, specifically, that they were now to preach the gospel to every living creature. They read the promise that god will send strong delusion to those who have no love of the truth, so that they will believe a lie - and they are completely oblivious to the fact that this means them!

Amazing creatures, Christians.

Yes, indeedy!

 

[okinrus]

<i><b>Because they tend to be the type of people who don't want to do the tough spiritual work themselves
</b></i>
Part of spirituallity is admiting that you cannot save yourself. Believing that you can save yourself alone leads to pride.

<i><b>
- they want to find an easy way out and will desperately grasp at anything that seems to fill the bill.
</b></i>
You will find different christian theology on this one. Catholics believing in salvation through faith and works and protestants believe that faith will always bring about works.

<i><b>
Toward that effort they will deliberately blind themselves to all the OT passages that blatantly declare there is only one god and no savior beside him.
</b></i>
No, the doctrin of Trinity says that there is one God.

<i><b>
They will also conveniently overlook the passages where that same god promised to send a stumblingblock to ensnare the Jews in their idolatry. </b></i>
Yes, this stumbling block is Jesus our Lord. As written in Zechariah, "Yes, I will bring my servant the Shoot. Look at the stone that I have placed before Joshua, one stone with seven facets. I will engrave its inscription, says the Lord of hosts, and I will take away the guilt of the land in one day."...

<i><b>
They ignore the fact that while Jesus was still alive, he maintained that he was sent only unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (i.e., the idolatrous Jews of the previous sentence).</b></i>
No, in fact it is written in Genesis that Abraham's name will be blessed by all nations.

<i><b>
It was only a later, false ending to the book of Mark that had a Jesus who appeared in a different and unrecognizable form to his disciples, telling them something 180 degrees different than what he told them before his crucifixion, specifically, that they were now to preach the gospel to every living creature.
</b></i>
This is nothing new. It is predicted through out the pslams and Isaiah that the Messiah would gather the nations to Jerusalem.

<i><b>
They read the promise that god will send strong delusion to those who have no love of the truth, so that they will believe a lie - and they are completely oblivious to the fact that this means them! </b></i>
And you are just has oblivious to the being called truth.

 

[Jenyar]

Ditto okinrus

Toward that effort they will deliberately blind themselves to all the OT passages that blatantly declare there is only one god and no savior beside him.

Now listen to what God says:

"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth." (Is. 49)

Jesus is the how, God is the who.

 

[Nehushta]

okinrus,

What do you make of the parable of the field of tares, as told in Matthew 13:24-30?

Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Please note what is taken first. Isn't it odd that some Christians believe they will be taken out of the world first before the rest of the world is destroyed? But this parable clearly tells you what happens to that which is taken first.

He who has ears, let him hear.

 

[Nehushta]

Re: Ditto okinrus

Originally posted by Jenyar
Now listen to what God says:

"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth." (Is. 49)

Jesus is the how, God is the who.

Just in case you one of those who thinks that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 (and surrounding chapters) is Jesus - please note that the Suffering Servant is Israel, not Jesus. The Suffering Servant chapters have nothing to do with Jesus - read them in context.

 

[Jenyar]

Just in case you one of those who thinks that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 (and surrounding chapters) is Jesus - please note that the Suffering Servant is Israel, not Jesus. The Suffering Servant chapters have nothing to do with Jesus - read them in context.

Precisely: he who serves God is called Israel. And just in case you think you have the final authority over who Israel is:

Genesis 32:28
Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [Israel means "he struggles with God"] because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."

23 I will plant her for myself in the land;
I will show my love to the one I called 'Not my loved one.'
I will say to those called 'Not my people,' 'You are my people';
and they will say, 'You are my God.' "

Isaiah 11
1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious.

Israel was one man who became a nation who needed saving, who brought forth one man (Jesus, descendent of David) to rule over it as David did (Micah 5:2), to call everybody who has faith in God "his people", and to give them everything He promised Israel.

Who decides who rules over Israel, you or God? And how would Israel be a light to the nations if not through its anointed king? David's last words (2 Samuel 23):

5 "Is not my house right with God?
Has he not made with me an everlasting covenant,
arranged and secured in every part?
Will he not bring to fruition my salvation?

God's promise to Israel was quote "everlasting" - that means it did not stop with David. Not even David thought it did.

Please note what is taken first. Isn't it odd that some Christians believe they will be taken out of the world first before the rest of the world is destroyed? But this parable clearly tells you what happens to that which is taken first.

He who has ears, let him hear.

I believe you are referring to the rapture, which isn't quite Biblical as you point out. It was based on a few isolated verses but doesn't fit in with what Jesus said. Revelation states clearly that we will have to endure suffering before the end, but that it will come quickly and involve all of the earth.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Re: Re: Ditto okinrus

Originally posted by Nehushta
Just in case you one of those who thinks that the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53 (and surrounding chapters) is Jesus - please note that the Suffering Servant is Israel, not Jesus. The Suffering Servant chapters have nothing to do with Jesus - read them in context.

According to Biblical scholors (yes, even on the Internet), it is quite clear that not one word of Isaiah refers to Jesus. This is just an example of how Christians P&Q (pick and quote) Bible verses to say what they want them to mean. By the way, doesn't the Bible have a little quote that says something like "Whosoever changes or adds to or interprets this book will be sent straight to Hell."

 

[Tiassa]

Wrong question?

The OT, NT and Qur'an contradicts Jesus as savior. The ONLY savior is the One God.

I tend to think the topic examines the wrong aspect of the issue.

Now there was a Pharisee named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.

He came to Jesus at night and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one can do these signs that you are doing unless God is with him."

Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above."

Nicodemus said to him, "How can a person once grown old be born again? Surely he cannot reenter his mother's womb and be born again, can he?"

Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. What is born of flesh is flesh and what is born of spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I told you, 'You must be born from above.' The wind blows where it wills, and you can hear the sound it makes, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Nicodemus answered and said to him, "How can this happen?"

Jesus answered and said to him, "You are the teacher of Israel and you do not understand this? Amen, amen, I say to you, we speak of what we know and we testify to what we have seen, but you people do not accept our testimony. If I tell you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things? No one has gone up to heaven except the one who has come down from heaven, the Son of Man. And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."

For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil.

For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.

But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God. (John 3.1-21, NAB)

The faith explanation is rather simple: God redeems, Jesus is the symbol or seal of that redemption.

The simplicity of that explanation, that Jesus is like a ticket you get when you sign on to faith, is often overlooked by those of the faith, as well. The primary reason I had this problem in my perception of Christian faith was because of the Christians who taught me. And those who find my posts long would find that tale intolerably drawn out at this point.

If each man reaps what he sows, how can Jesus be the savior?

Quite simply if we start with the assertion that there is a purpose to life and therefore a method for achieving that purpose, once one subscribes sincerely to that method, it follows that the appropriate results should occur. If one accepts Jesus as the symbol of salvation, if one sincerely "invites Jesus into their heart," or however it goes, their behavior should naturally reflect the values advised by Jesus. To put it into functional terms, if the values and ideas set forth by Jesus are adopted as a proper guide to proper living, then it seems to me that one will start behaving according to those constraints.

This is why I find the fractured state of Christian faith a difficult issue to deal with insofar as a certain brand of Christianity, a rather popular brand of Christianity, seems to thrive on conflict and human suffering. Those who sow suffering reap suffering. Those who sow compassion reap compassion. The idea is reflected in many religions; among the more recent recognitions is the Wiccan Threefold Law; while it is easy enough to accept the historical assertion that this law appears nowhere in history prior to 1975, Starhawk's dissemination in Spiral Dance shows it to be a figurative observation more than a divine command. You can find the idea in Hinduism, Buddhism, and all manner of Asian philosophy. (Why hold equal and opposite reactions to silver balls on a string? Why not examine the human implications of a social relativity?)

How could he have taken on the sins of mankind and done away with them? Only the One God who accepts repentance and wipes out sins can do that.

There is no rational reason why God would wipe away sins. Compassion, the cornerstone of Jesus' ministry, is the irrational factor moving God to forgiveness. There is a natural limitation of God itself; it cannot inherently bear sympathy to the human condition. God can only observe and compare against its standards. Thus God becomes human, through Jesus, in order to bear the sins of humanity and understand the human condition.

And here is where we move back toward what I consider the more vital underlying issue.

Because while I think the confusion about roles which underpins this topic is actually easily reconciled, it invites a more fundamental problem that has plagued the faith since the church arose in Jesus' wake. Essentially, the question becomes about the separation between God and Jesus. We have the concept of the Trinity, institutionalized in 325 at Nicaea, but faith still insists on the idea of monotheism.

And that's not easily reconciled.

So, where do Xians get this idea that Jesus saved them?

It all depends on sleight-of-mind. Or, rather, interpretations.

Think of it like The Redemption Nightclub. You come bopping up to the door and the bouncer says, "Sorry, you can't come in." Along comes Jesus with a number of people in tow. Jesus walks through the door and the bouncer stops the people with him. "You can't come in," says the bouncer. "They're with me," says Jesus, and here we can look at it in at least two possible ways:

- Either that is good enough and they pass into the club, or
- The bouncer, the judge, looks each and every one of them up and down and decides whose "spiritual fashion" is appropriate for the club and tells the rest to go to hell.

How could they all be wrong?

I vote for "Making religion out of it in the first place," but that's not helpful.

Jesus is the accessible part of God. Of course, the fact that few Christians look at it according to the nuts and bolts of the philosophical history suggests a reason why it took hundreds of years to develop such ideas. It's kind of like making drunken lofty assertions and then trying to figure out what the hell you meant by it all.

 

[Nehushta]

Originally posted by Jenyar
Isaiah 11
1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious.

That reminds me - the "root of Jesse" is also sometimes referred to as the "serpent's root" (see Isaiah 14:29). It seems there's quite a bit of serpent imagery connected with Jesus - why is that?

Who decides who rules over Israel, you or God?

Um, how about Israel?

And how would Israel be a light to the nations if not through its anointed king?

But Jesus was never an anointed king - not in the usual, accepted sense at least.

I believe you are referring to the rapture, which isn't quite Biblical as you point out. It was based on a few isolated verses but doesn't fit in with what Jesus said. Revelation states clearly that we will have to endure suffering before the end, but that it will come quickly and involve all of the earth.

Revelations says a lot of really bizarre things, like the part about the great reptilian deceiver casting a third of the stars of heaven down to earth. It has been estimated that approximately one-third of the world's population considers itself Christian - do you think the fallen stars might symbolize deceived Christians in this allegory?

 

[okinrus]

Please note what is taken first. Isn't it odd that some Christians believe they will be taken out of the world first before the rest of the world is destroyed? But this parable clearly tells you what happens to that which is taken first.

As Jenyar point out the word rapture is not in the bible. I can't give you any arguments against it simply because those who believe in the rapture are so divided between pre-tribulation etc. that it's a real mess. I believe that there will be salvation to the end. More so because once people see the anti-christ for what he really is some will reject him.