Tiassa Do you support Eugenics?.
Heart
Abortion is not eugenics.
Tiassa Do you support Eugenics?.
Heart
^
Would anyone like to explain the logic of the idea that abortion is wrong because a 'child' has the right to live, but not if you were raped?
After all, if you equate a zygote, embryo or fetus with a child, you'd want to protect it under ANY circumstances, right? You would not, after all, condone killing a born, walking, talking child because his/her mother was raped...
Yes, yes, I hear you already Lightgigantic et al...She was a slut, she should close her legs,etc. Come get me, pro-lifers. *coils and shadowboxes*
it's short-sighted to think that abortion is always unethical. it really depends on the situation. sometimes, it may have been the most merciful in the long-run.
True, but you are a destroying a real person based on hypothetical outcomes - given the choice, would you prefer that you never had the experience of living long enough to have one?
first of all, not all situations are hypothetical. some people's situations are not good and would be even more irresponsible to bring a child into it than abort it.
second, not everyone wants to have children. whether i do or not really does not make a difference to this discussion. i wouldn't bring a child into a situation if i couldn't take care of it properly. if i somehow got pregnant, i would have an abortion.
S.A.M. said:
True, but you are a destroying a real person based on hypothetical outcomes - given the choice, would you prefer that you never had the experience of living long enough to have one?
For example, are there children, who have not been aborted, who when asked, would choose to have been aborted rather than face their difficult lives? Are there children born of rape who would prefer they never existed? We have the luxury of being alive to make that choice. Is it right to deprive a child, who does not even know what it means to be alive, of the same choice?
Would you for example, extend that luxury of choice to a mother who changes her mind after the child is born?
I oppose abortion philosophically as being unethical to take away consent from someone who is not able to defend himself or herself.
Well you see your opinion is based on the notion that the unborn can be classified as a person, as 'someone'. Many women who abort do not think of a child as being a person or even a baby but that's besides the point I guess.
Sam there are lot's of people who wish they never existed we usually think of them as those on suicide watch.
Not at all. In fact, this is the point. Child abandonment did not start with abortion, it has a long and varied history, with changing moral concepts as to what constitutes a person. e.g. in ancient Greece, a child was not regarded as a person until a special ceremony five days after its birth. Before that parents were entitled by law to abandon their children. If someone else found and adopted that child, it was still not a person, but was brought up as a slave.
So yes, the concept of personhood seems to go hand in hand with the right to the choice of life.
Do they constitute the demographic that is usually aborted? Assuming you can retroactively designate such.
My point is, whose choice is it to abort? Not the childs and as the person most affected by that choice, it seems strange that the same people who would oppose mental/physical/emotional abuse of a child on the basis that they lack choice and need protection, would oppose the right of the child to decide whether he/she wants to take on these difficulties or not
would choose to have been aborted rather than face their difficult lives? Are there children born of rape who would prefer they never existed? We have the luxury of being alive to make that choice. Is it right to deprive a child, who does not even know what it means to be alive, of the same choice?
The future is always hypothetical.
I can envision a world that completely outlaws abortion, but the reality is that nobody would go along with it.
it's the responsiblity of the parent to decide and ascertain that as to what they are bringing that child into. i think abortion is merciful and ethical with all things considered as long as it's carried out as early as possible.
S.A.M. said:
I don't necessary consider what is legal to be what is ethical. First of all, because I'm Indian and we know that laws have very little to do with morality and everything to do with what is politically convenient.
Second, because I believe in the right of choice even when it is uncomfortable for me. So I would never support any ban on abortion, because everyone should have the right to choose what they want to do with their lives. Its also why I don't support the ban on child labour.
Abortion isn't child abandonment. Do they constitute the demographic of those aborted? What a silly question. Can you tell me how many people have thought of or attempted suicide? Would you know?
All of this talk of personhood etc is irrelevant the moment a woman is pregnant and doesn't want to be pregnant. Its talk for those who have to debate abortion not for those who've made the decision to abort. I don't care if people think abortion a terrible evil, that's fine. What bothers me are people trying to dictate to other women what they should legally have access to on the issue.
I don't necessary consider what is legal to be what is ethical.
Its also why I don't support the ban on child labour.
I think the moment a woman gets pregnant she is choosing for two people, herself and her child. There is no "me" anymore because everything she does has an effect on the child. If smoking and drinking is negligence then abortion is abandonment, of the worse kind, because no one else can rescue or adopt that child.
lol. damn, your ethics are scary, to put it nicely.
you see the person as just a womb for children.
Yeah, they have the miserable handicap of being consistent with my beliefs and free from political correctness. Tell me, what is your opinion of a woman who takes drugs or alcohol or smokes in her pregnancy after knowing that it can have lasting terratogenic effects on the fetus?
But once there is a child in the womb, its pointless to pretend that you can continue to go on as though it never happened.
i was finding how blatantly contradictory it was juxtaposing your stand not being against child labor and then being so concerned about bringing kids into the world and abortion being worse. i'm sure those children enslaved would thank you. lol
to me your argument is example of what i was talking about earlier.
I think the moment a woman gets pregnant she is choosing for two people, herself and her child. There is no "me" anymore because everything she does has an effect on the child. If smoking and drinking is negligence then abortion is abandonment, of the worse kind, because no one else can rescue or adopt that child.
We have no argument there. I think many laws are unrealistic myself.
A woman who isn't ready to have a child