'It's a child not a choice...but not if you were raped'

[WillNever]

A fetus isn't a person but only a potential, it doesn't have a name, nor does it have any sense of 'choice' or 'rights', individuality or personhood the way a a human being black or not would have.

I think it's alarming that people are contrasting a human embryo with "human beings," as though the fetus itself were not actually human at all. Is it a coping mechanism?

 

[WillNever]

But at the time, it is not a child, any more than an acorn is a seed or a blueprint is a house. How is it fair to give a zygote rights that trump a woman's? You are a scientist, you are well acquainted with physiology, yet you are choosing to throw logic and facts out the damn window and call even a zygote a child. Why?

Because but for the fact that you were to kill it, the zygote is on its way to becoming a child.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

I think it's alarming that people are contrasting a human embryo with "human beings," as though the fetus itself were not actually human at all. Is it a coping mechanism?

You have to wade through back to the beginning of the exchange between Lg and myself to see how that weedled itself into the conversation. LG is basically saying that a fetus is akin to a slaves who didn't have any recognized rights. I'm saying that slaves were not in the position of a fetus because slaves had the ability to claim rights for themselves as conscious, thinking persons, a fetus is not a person. The fetus only has the potential to becoming a person.

 

[S.A.M.]

According it that logic, there should be mandatory organ donation. I mean, it's my kidney vs. your LIFE, right?

Sure why not? As long as it doesn't damage or kill you, I would support organ donation - and if it was your mother's life on the line, what would you choose? Let her die vs donate a kidney?

I love how you call a pregnancy an inconvenience, rather than use a word like ordeal, suffering, etc. Yes, never mind her body and her health, they're just petty minor privileges compared to that ickle, special baby.

I've already stated that medical reasons are a valid reason for abortion - if the choice is between the mother's life or the child's life, the mother is entitled to choose her life. Same as a battered wife is allowed self defense. But if it is a choice between the suffering of a nine month pregnancy and the life of a child, I'm not sure why the mothers suffering has greater value as compared to the death of the child.

Also I disagree that the effects of pregnancy would only last nine months. She would have to live all her life with the fact that she had been forced against her will to have a child. It would be akin to rape.

If she can get over killing her child, surely its not too much to ask her to get over giving birth to it? Bizarre.

 

[wynn]

I'm saying that slaves were not in the position of a fetus because slaves had the ability to claim rights for themselves as conscious, thinking persons

Slaves were not in such a position; that was the whole point of slavery.

 

[wynn]

Does anyone here think that the ability of the female body to conceive against her will is a kind of flaw?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

They were not in such a position; that was the whole point of slavery.

Oh please go back and read the argument A fetus doesn't have a sense of rights or liberty, it doesn't think nor does it feel. You cannot say that about slaves.

By the way I posted the answer to your 'state pays for abortions' nonsense.

 

[S.A.M.]

Does anyone here think that the ability of the female body to conceive against her will is a kind of flaw?

Good question. Is it a crime to be a woman?

 

[wynn]

But if it is a choice between the suffering of a nine month pregnancy and the life of a child, I'm not sure why the mothers suffering has greater value as compared to the death of the child.

It is a lot more than nine months, though.

Although this is officially illegal, some employers make women sign a clause in which they agree to lose their job if they choose to carry a child to term.

In a society where jobs wouldn't be so scarce, I would empathize with your logic, but now I don't.

 

[S.A.M.]

It is a lot more than nine months, though.

Although this is officially illegal, some employers make women sign a clause in which they agree to lose their job if they choose to carry a child to term.

In a society where jobs wouldn't be so scarce, I would empathize with your logic, but now I don't.

Hmm you're right. If its not possible to get a job when you have children, its best to kill the children and keep the job. Think of the money saved in daycare/creches/babysitting!

:roflmao:

 

[wynn]

Oh please go back and read the argument A fetus doesn't have a sense of rights or liberty, it doesn't think nor does it feel. You cannot say that about slaves.

When the white slaveowners had the say, they said blacks have none of those things.

E.g.
Drapetomania
Dysaethesia Aethiopica

By the way I posted the answer to your 'state pays for abortions' nonsense.

You posted earlier on the 300 million dollars, post 255.
I said "If the state and others are the ones who pay for the abortions, in one way or another, then they should have some say in the matter."

 

[wynn]

Hmm you're right. If its not possible to get a job when you have children, its best to kill the children and keep the job

When it is your life versus other people's lives, whose do you choose?

 

[wynn]

Good question. Is it a crime to be a woman?

It certainly comes with specifics and responsibilites that modern society does not handle well.

 

[S.A.M.]

When it is your life versus other people's lives, whose do you choose?

Frankly being self employed I've never considered a job a matter of life and death.

Tell me, if wives are too expensive to maintain, or even old parents, do you recommend a quick death as compared to prolonged coexistence at a lower quality of life?

 

[wynn]

Frankly being self employed I've never considered a job a matter of life and death.

Not everyone has the resources to be self-employed.
For many people, having or not having a job is a matter of life and death.

Tell me, if wives are too expensive to maintain, or even old parents, do you recommend a quick death as compared to prolonged coexistence at a lower quality of life?

Ha!

We're talking about pregnancy due to rape.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

You posted earlier on the 300 million dollars, post 255.
I said "If the state and others are the ones who pay for the abortions, in one way or another, then they should have some say in the matter."

No dear its post 280 and since only 14% of abortions are paid for by the state your say as a tax payer is pretty low. Also there is a difference between the points made about having rights and drapetomania which was a supposed mental illness that caused black slaves to flee captivity and dysaethesia aethiopica a theory for the cause of laziness among slaves. So you are not only wide of the point you have missed the crux of the argument I was having with LG unless of course you mean to say that the lazy and the insane are not people or persons. A fetus is not a person but has the potential to become one which is where the failure begins and ends when trying to establish a link between the situation of black slaves and a fetus.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Frankly being self employed I've never considered a job a matter of life and death.

Tell me, if wives are too expensive to maintain, or even old parents, do you recommend a quick death as compared to prolonged coexistence at a lower quality of life?

You should ask your fellow religious folk that question:

Women identifying themselves as Protestants obtain 37.4% of all abortions in the U.S.; Catholic women account for 31.3%, Jewish women account for 1.3%, and women with no religious affiliation obtain 23.7% of all abortions. 18% of all abortions are performed on women who identify themselves as "Born-again/Evangelical".

Hypocrites. Read Encyclopedia for Women & Islamic Cultures: Family, Body, Sexuality and you will find that even in Egypt abortions ran at 40%. Funny that.

Its funny how abortions become convenient when its suddenly YOUR life in question. I mean look at how many women are having abortions:

An estimated 43% of all women will have at least 1 abortion by the time they are 45 years old. 47% of all abortions are performed on women who have had at least one previous abortion.

That means that a large number of women, yes even those around you Sam are MURDERERS, BABY KILLERS mwahahahahahaha!!! Run Sam Run, the sin is all around you and one day the evil women around the world will unite and eat you cause they're cold blooded like that

 

[S.A.M.]

We're talking about pregnancy due to rape.

I'm not. I'm talking about why rape should not be an exception for pro-lifers

And I answered it quite succinctly way back when as:

I oppose abortion philosophically as being unethical to take away consent from someone who is not able to defend himself or herself.

I've not yet made up my mind about other reverse scenarios such as a pregnant woman who wants to be euthanised - can she choose death while pregnant?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Well come on Sam I want a response from you. Post 297 is addressed to you. Is it in your opinion that such a large number of women, religious or not, are a bunch of cold hearted murderers? I want to hear your misogynistic reasoning.

 

[wynn]

So you are not only wide of the point you have missed the crux of the argument I was having with LG unless of course you mean to say that the lazy and the insane are not people or persons. A fetus is not a person but has the potential to become one which is where the failure begins and ends when trying to establish a link between the situation of black slaves and a fetus.

I am sure you would get along fine with the slaveowners.
You have the same reasoning about the unborn as the slaveowners had about blacks.

But you keep trying to objectify the whole thing, as if it does not matter whose perspective we are viewing things from, but that instead, there exists only one perspective (which, by virtue of being singular, isn't even a a perspective anymore, but the objective truth itself) ...