Islam for the Western Mind

Originally posted by Quantum Quack
may be I am being a little simplistic when I ask:

Do we believe in the same God? and are only quibbling over the nature of the messenger? Whether Mohammad or Jesus (excuse spellings)

Afterall which is more important the messenger(s) or the message?

No, I dont think we believe in the same God, Christians worship a man as God while Muslims worship the only sole creator of the world who is no equal to his creation, Allah almighty.

regarding which is more important, I think both the messenger and the message are important because if the messenger was a LIAR or false prophet then the message will be certainly corrupt.
 
ghassan kanafani, you bring up some good points, some that i was unaware of about islam. like i said, i haven't finished reading the qu'ran yet ;) about judging and acting, i wish for neither. all people of all faiths are my brothers and sisters, and i'd wish no judgement on them by anyone. if saying may peace be with you makes you not an un-believer, then that makes things a little easier to swallow. it is the verses on un-believers which worried me, but now i see how this designation can be altered.

i propose this question then. what's to be done with the extremists who use islam in the name of violence and terror? what of those who use christianity for the same purpose?

:m: peace :m:
 
Originally posted by Ghassan Kanafani
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them .

The submission site makes perfect sense to me. I didn't even have to read it to realize that La Illah Ila Allah has been my one and only Shehada. I believe that Prophet Muhamed is the last prophet of god and don't need to recite that over and over again like a parrot or a broken record. Prophet Muhamed is dead and god is ever living. A true muslim should only call out to god's name without associating the name with anyone even a messanger.

Ghassan, my husband who converted to Islam has been challenging me with all sort of things specially the right way to pray. So many ways out there, one with small Sura, and one without, how many Allahu Akbars, the Tashahud, is it long or just the 2 sentences???? He doesn't believe that our current Salat is original and feel that much was added to it, specially the Tashahud. I'm very confused about the Salat, give me your prespective.
 
Originally posted by Flores
The submission site makes perfect sense to me. I didn't even have to read it to realize that La Illah Ila Allah has been my one and only Shehada. I believe that Prophet Muhamed is the last prophet of god and don't need to recite that over and over again like a parrot or a broken record. Prophet Muhamed is dead and god is ever living. A true muslim should only call out to god's name without associating the name with anyone even a messanger.


Sister, submission.org is NOT Islamic site, the man who made it does not recognize the life of the prophet or his sayings ( the Sunnah ) which are essential parts of Islam, he is Quranic only and for that he is NOT Muslim.

HEY EVERYONE, BE CAREFUL FROM THIS SITE, WE ARE NOT SURE EVEN IF THE FOUNDER IS MUSLIM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

We are working on exposing this FALSE site, many sites will be generated soon to show those seeking knowldge about Islam the true teachings of Islam:

http://geocities.com/islamic_poet/cults.html

Answering the false Islamic Cults:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/islamic_cults.htm

to get real information about what THE REAL ISLAM is all about, please check these sites:

www.harunyahya.com

www.islamworld.net

www.answering-christianity.com
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Sister, submission.org is NOT Islamic site,

Don't tell me how to do my research..I have eyes, nose, ears, and brain that works way better than yours. I can examine the merit of things on my own.

Now, if you are willing to represent me and others in judgement day as the muslim lawyer, then feel free to keep advising us....if not, then shut up and worry about yourself.

And please don't call me sister....Do you address your wife and mother with the term sister as well? If I was your mom and you called me sister, I would have sat on top of you shortly after delivery (accidental suffocation). This board is too clean for me to say what I would do if I was your wife and you called me sister, specially if we were in the middle of something.:D
 
Originally posted by Quantum Quack
Do we believe in the same God? and are only quibbling over the nature of the messenger? Whether Mohammad or Jesus (excuse spellings)

Yes we do Quantum, but the world would be too peacefull and too productive that way, and unemployment rate would sky rocket.....Not only would we have to worry about employing the troops, but the Laden campers. We also wouldn't know who to insult and mock that we would start slapping ourselves silly.
 
Originally posted by Flores
Now, if you are willing to represent me and others in judgement day as the muslim lawyer, then feel free to keep advising us....if not, then shut up and worry about yourself.
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P S:

Is that the words of reasonable logical creature ?

==================================
And please don't call me sister....Do you address your wife and mother with the term sister as well? If I was your mom and you called me sister, I would have sat on top of you shortly after delivery (accidental suffocation). This board is too clean for me to say what I would do if I was your wife and you called me sister, specially if we were in the middle of something.
==================================
P S:

No MY DEAR SISTER, you have NO right to tell me what I should call you, I call you WHATEVER I WANT, if you dont like it, then dont respond when I call you SISTER..........very simple.

I am free to use my words, and if you dont like it , then another option for you is to consider some 'diet' Coke for IFTAR to chill out...

:D
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Originally posted by Flores
Now, if you are willing to represent me and others in judgement day as the muslim lawyer, then feel free to keep advising us....if not, then shut up and worry about yourself.
===================================
P S:

Is that the words of reasonable logical creature ?

==================================

Anything else is ignorance and chaos. It boils down to this....

Are you a lawyer for the people representing them infront of god?
Are you willing to go to hell for me if your instructions are wrong?
Do you guarantee me heaven if I follow you?
Can you even guarantee for yourself heaven?
Do you know shit?

No NO NO big fat NOOOOS

No, then get off our backs...

Plain, simple, logical.

.....Now go calling everyone sister and brother, it fits preislamic cultures and ignorant arabia when people use to liken women to their mothers. Nothing changes...same mentality, different age.

[58.2] (As for) those of you who put away their wives by likening their backs to the backs of their mothers, they are not their mothers; their mothers are no others than those who gave them birth; and most surely they utter a hateful word and a falsehood and most surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.


learn the truth from the Quran. You mother is the one that gave you birth..your wife is the one that lays next to you in bed, you sister is the one that shares your father and mother, your friend is the one that you trust.....It's not a soup of sister and brotherhood....it's respectable relationships.
 
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Originally posted by Flores

learn the truth from the Quran. You mother is the one that gave you birth..your wife is the one that lays next to you in bed, you sister is the one that shares your father and mother, your friend is the one that you trust.....It's not a soup of sister and brotherhood....it's respectable relationships. [/B]

Stop being pathetic, if you are not my sister in Islam, then you are by humanity, isnt ADAM our common father MY DEAR SISTER ???????????????????????????????????????
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
Stop being pathetic, if you are not my sister in Islam, then you are by humanity, isnt ADAM our common father MY DEAR SISTER ???????????????????????????????????????

Then, why don't you milk down the bro relation and go have a talk with your brother Sharon, Brother Bush, and Brother Rumsfeld about honoring the brotherhood. Don't forget Sister Condeleca. Don't tell me that you renounced the blood relation so quickly because of little misunderstandings. While you at it, say hello to brother Mubarak, BinLaden, Assad, Arafat, and the rest of your Palestenian brothers and sisters.

Still wanna go around calling everyone bro and sis? Is that the sincere thing to do?

I don't object to you calling me sister as much as I object to the current misuse of these terms by cult members....It's not a sincere call, just a term imlying that "I can assume that you think just like me". I hear the terms iin every church and with the few fundemntal extremist muslims like yourself.
 
Flores, you have reminded me of an old philosphy that I thoght of as no doubt others have too in that:

If you take the logic and resoning of all religions be it cult or general, Christian , Muslum, Hindu, etc etc and just let it flow to it's natural conclusion you will find they all end up at the same point.

The only problem as I see it is that we tend to stop the flow of logic and reasoning at some point that we find opportune ( to our own self interest) and get stuck.

If we let the logic flow with out hinderance then I Think we can see a very different result.

Logic flow = Peace
 
Originally posted by Quantum Quack
If you take the logic and resoning of all religions be it cult or general, Christian , Muslum, Hindu, etc etc and just let it flow to it's natural conclusion you will find they all end up at the same point.


Not necessarily. I believe that christianity, Islam, and Judiasm do have the same basic ideas and thus your conclusion about them all ending up at the same point of the ONE creator is correct. Islam and Judiasm already agree from the big point of view. Christianity seems to have cut the flow of logic as you say at Jesus. They have been trained so much to stop at Jesus and depend, that they have such a hard time looking beyond....it disturbs christians greatly to look at god as ONE, they all share a guilt feeling for the death of Jesus that they can't comprehend and thus start assigning bad logic and undermine the message. Other religions are fundementally very different like Hindu Buhda, ect...These are not monotheistic, but multitheistic, and are sort of like Quantum mechanics, they only work in the tiny individual small scale, but there is no one theory for everything like the Monotheistic view offers.

Originally posted by Quantum Quack
The only problem as I see it is that we tend to stop the flow of logic and reasoning at some point that we find opportune ( to our own self interest) and get stuck.


Not really, the average joe have no advantage nor interest in stopping the flow of logic. It more has to do with fear. Imagine this scenario. You have been using a cane to walk since you were a baby and you don't know how to walk by yourself. You have never tested your legs and is very afraid of falling, actually you don't know what would happen to you if you fall. Making the first step requires leaving the cane behind, and the fear of falling, dying, ect...is floating all over you. Our first try to think for ourselves might be our last or the beginning of a set of wonderfull things. That's more like what the average joe experiences. We are not all evil, just fearfull due to our blindness, and that makes us inept.


Originally posted by Quantum Quack
If we let the logic flow with out hinderance then I Think we can see a very different result.

Logic flow = Peace
Yes, but it's a circular logic that will bring us back to ourselves over and over with questions. The answer relies within us and our lives. All the happiness, love, peace, ect....is within, and the circular reasoning is intended to trap us back to ourselves where the answer lies.
 
Flores,
The ole' "it all comes back to me" philosphy, circular logic yes is very true.

But maybe one day it will be just simply "Me" because I didn't leave my self in the first place.

After all if and when yo u ever find your self there is no longer the need to go looking.

And I like your reasoning Flores.
 
Originally posted by Proud_Syrian
No, I dont think we believe in the same God, Christians worship a man as God while Muslims worship the only sole creator of the world who is no equal to his creation, Allah almighty.

regarding which is more important, I think both the messenger and the message are important because if the messenger was a LIAR or false prophet then the message will be certainly corrupt.
---------
M*W: True. There is only One God. God isn't a man. God is a positive energy. This positive energy is the Creator of all things. The sole creator of the world--Allah. xians are doomed because of their own stupidity. Allah is All. Jesus is nothing.
 
Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
Originally posted by James R
According to Allah, Jesus was a prophet.
----------
M*W: Okay, he was a prophet, but nothing more.
You seem to have a terrible problem with people who don't believe in the same manner as you - specifically Christianity. It’s funny that you feel that you can belittle their belief and then posit your own as correct. Simply put there is not a shred more evidence for what you beleive over that of any one else little own that there even was a Jesus or that there even is an Allah and or other gods for that matter. In short, live and let live. If you have something interesting to say (maybe a bit of historical trivia, etcetera) then fine post it. But rambling on with this incessant hatred towards people that believe in a different fairytale then yours, is beginning to place you in the nutz category. Simply put, Christians may be correct or Muslims or Jews or Buddhists or Atheists or Native Americans or Aztecs or Ancient Romans or Australian Aboriginals or Hindi or bla bla bla. Discussing the different religious ideas is, from my understanding, the point of this forum. Attacking people who differ in your belief by blurting out:

“Okay, he was a prophet, but nothing more”
“Christians worship a man as God”
“There is only One God. God isn't a man. God is a positive energy”
“No disclaimer is needed. xianity is false. Judaism has no savior”

is a waste of time.

Indecently, “positive energy” may sound good in your head but it really has no meaning – at all. What? positively “charged” energy? :) Positively “evil” energy? :)
 
Originally posted by Flores
Not necessarily. I believe that christianity, Islam, and Judiasm do have the same basic ideas and thus your conclusion about them all ending up at the same point of the ONE creator is correct.
Boolean exclusive OR: either Christianity is true or islam is true, not both
http://www.delphibasics.co.uk/RTL.asp?Name=Xor

Islam has it backwards, what is a martyr, an angel, an apostle, how do you submit to God, how do you practice fasting or prayer?

Examples on martyrdom from Christianity: Stephen from Acts of the Apostles 7:59-60:
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this against them.”
When he said this, he fell asleep.
Examples on martyrdom from islam: It’s a bomb! read the papers, use your browser, it’s
backwards

Examples on fasting from Jesus from Matthew 6: 16-18:
“When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their
faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their
reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that
it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is
unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Examples on fasting from islam: during Ramadan, muslims fast during the day, then feast
at night, read the papers, use your browser, if you don’t believe me it’s backwards

Examples on prayer from Jesus from Matthew 6: 5-8:
“And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing
in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth,
they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room,
close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who
sees what is done in secret, will reward you. And when you pray, do not keep
babbling like pagans, for they think they will be head because of their many
words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you
ask him.
Examples on prayer from islam: as one of the 5 pillars of islam, prayer is out in the open
5 times a day so that everyone must do it, it’s backwards

Examples on being sent by God from Jesus Matthew 7: 15-16:
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly
they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick
grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles?
Examples on being sent by doG from islam: it’s backwards

Examples on lying angels from Galatians 1: 6-9:
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the
grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel – which is really no gospel
at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to
pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should
preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a
gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
Examples of lying angels from islam: who is this Jibril, what is the quran, if not a false
gospel? it’s backwards

Examples from the Bible on prophethood from Deuteronomy 18:21-22:
You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been
spoken by the LORD?” If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD
does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken.
That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
Examples from islam on prophethood: want to marry your daughter-in-law, why as a
false prophet, you can make the quran say anything you want, just ask Ayesha
complain about Mohammad’s quran. it’s backwards
http://derafsh-kaviyani.com/english/women2.html

Examples on apostles from Jesus from Matthew 4: 18-19:
As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon
called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for
they were fishermen. “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers
of men.”
Examples on apostles from islam: Mohammad called by Jibril, a lying angel (known to average
people as a demon ), then confirmed by his wife (how did she know what’s true?),
it’s backwards

Examples of who Jesus is from Peter before the Sanhedrin in Acts of the Apostles
4:10-12:
Then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ
of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this
man stands before you healed. He is
“ ‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone’
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to
men by which we are saved.”
Examples of who Jesus is from islam: a muslim prophet, didn’t die on the cross for the
forgiveness of sins. Why different from Christianity? because it’s backwards

Examples from Jesus on believers from Matthew 7: 13-14:
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that
leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow
the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Examples from islam on believers: go to war against nonbelievers, force conversions by
the point of a sword, it’s backwards

Examples from Paul on temptation from 2 Corinthians 12: 7-9:
To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great
revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from satan, to
torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he
said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in
weakness.”
Examples from Mohammad on temptation: wants to marry a 6 year old kid? why as a
false prophet, you can make the quran say anything you want, do anything you
want. Why? Because it’s backwards

Examples of the crucifixion from Matthew 27: 35-40:
When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. And
sitting down, they kept watch over him there. Above his head they placed the
written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, KING OF THE JEWS. Two robbers
were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed
by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, “You who would
destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the
cross, if you are the Son of God!”
Examples of the crucifixion from islam: never happened, doG put someone else on the
cross, that looked like Jesus, read the quran it’s backwards

Examples from Paul on joy from Philippians 4: 4-5:
Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.
Examples from islam on joy: you’ve already heard about the reaction to 9/11 at the
refugee camps, it’s backwards
http://www.ourenemies.org/9-11.htm

Examples of what Heaven is like from Jesus in Matthew 22: 29-30:
Jesus replied, “ You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.”
Examples of what heaven is like from islam: you’ve already heard about the 70 virgins,
right? Hmmm, virgins, now what do you suppose they are needed for? it’s backwards

Examples of the beast in Revelation 13: 18:
This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the
beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666.
Examples of the beast in islam: the dragon is Jibril, the beast is Mohammad

Examples of the abomination that causes desolation from Matthew 24: 15:
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’
spoken of through the prophet Daniel – let the reader understand
Examples of the abomination that causes desolation from islam: muslims take Jerusalem
in 638, build the Al-Aqsa Mosque over the Jewish Temple mount. it’s backwards

Examples on God’s name from the Bible Exodus 3: 14:
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM, This is what you are to say to the
Israelites, ‘I AM has sent me to you’ “
Examples on doG’s name from islam: Did God forget his name? who is this allah? Why
did doG change his name? Because it’s backwards

How many muslims will make it to heaven? None, only Christian muslims, those that have submitted to Christ.

What would Mohammad do? Why fight, rape, war, murder, read the quran & the Hadiths, if you don’t believe me, .

A typical muslim is backwards, they are milsum. So that’s what muslims practice, backwards Christianity!

What is heaven like? Who is God? If you’re not a Christian, you’ll never know the truth.
 
There is no doubt that Christianity has evolved and improved it's application of the Teachngs of Christ.

Globally it could be suggested that social stability and wealth ( in all it's forms whether in the arts or technology) could be the priviledge of "western" cultures.

It could be also suggested that of all the religions that exist in the world today Christianity allows for greater freedom and creativity than other religions.

It is true that Christianity has had a difficult path and has been rather brital in it's applicaation but it seems that the church has matured some what since those times.

When one looks at the richness of western art, it's music, poetry, technology and basic democracy one can not avoid making comparisons to the developing Islamic world.

How does Islam inspire social reform, equality of the sexes, eqalitarianism, forgiveness, beauty, meritocracy, art, etc.
 
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