Islam and Suicide Bombers

[spidergoat]

Fascinating interview here with Pierre Rehov talking about a documentary on Palestinian suicide bombers, describing the neurosis that Islam creates.

I came to the conclusion that we are facing a neurosis at the level of an entire civilization. Most neuroses have in common a dramatic event, generally linked to an unacceptable sexual behavior.. In this case, we are talking of kids living all their lives in pure frustration, with no opportunity to experience sex, love, tenderness or even understanding from the opposite sex. The separation between men and women in Islam is absolute. So is contempt toward women, who are totally dominated by men. This leads to a situation of pure anxiety, in which normal behavior is not possible.

Is this true?
What are the implications for the future of Islam?
Is the root cause of terrorism an ideology, or a response to US foriegn policy, or some of both?

Personally, I respect the rights of people to practice their religion, and I recognize that there are billions of moderate Muslims in the world who do not commit violence in the name of their religion, but I think this filmmaker makes an important point.

Sufi Islam is also pretty cool.

 

[S.A.M.]

Where do I begin?

 

[spidergoat]

Are Islam's rigid rules about sex fundamentally inhuman? Does it set people up for psychological damage?

 

[S.A.M.]

Are Islam's rigid rules about sex fundamentally inhuman? Does it set people up for psychological damage?

What do you mean by rigid rules? I would like to know what you think are Islamic rules about sexuality.

 

[spidergoat]

No fraternization between men and women apart from marriage for one thing.

 

[S.A.M.]

Here is an analysis of Palestinian suicide bombers:
http://www.ecaar.org/Newsletter/Nov04/saleh.htm


Suicide bombers are not simply “the instruments of terrorist leaders” (Ehud Sprinzak, 2000), and neither are they innocent victims of brainwashing; they are, to borrow from Stanley Hoffman, “disturbingly normal” (1998). If suicide terrorism “can be sustained over time only when there already exists a high degree of commitment among the potential pool of recruits,” (Robert Pape, 2003) then investigating what cultivates such devotion is critical. Impeding suicide attacks requires not only confronting the organizational demand for them, but also investigating the individual-level incentive to volunteer on the supply-side.

From 1993 through April 2004, 46 percent of all suicide bombings were carried out by Hamas, 29 percent by PIJ (Palestine Islamic Jihad), and 22 percent by Fatah (Figure 2); the remainder were by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) or were claimed by two or more groups.


Social and demographic patterns

First, Palestinian suicide bombers are between the ages of 17-53, with mean and median falling at 22 years.

Second, 38 percent had completed more than 12 years of education, having been university students or graduates at the time of the attack; only 28 percent failed to finish high school.

Third, the majority had many siblings; 81 percent came from households with at least eight members, with fully six or more brothers and sisters.

Fourth, almost all suicide bombers are unmarried and male, though the number of female bombers is rising.

Suicide bombers are better educated than average - in the Palestinian distribution of educational achievement they are clustered on the right-hand tail.

In addition, two new facts have recently surfaced. We suggest that two factors, economic deprivation and human cost, generate increased incentives to participate in militant activities, and we provide quantitative evidence in the support of this argument.


Revenge and Unemployment

As Table 1(in the link) shows, there is evidence that many suicide attackers included a large number of Palestinians who had a prior history violent encounters with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) that resulted in an immediate family member being killed or in some cases the attacker him/herself was injured or arrested; in our preliminary search we found 44 (and counting) attacks where the operators had been exposed in the past to IDF force. 11 of the 44 suicide attackers with grievances had a relative killed by the IDF; almost all were previously arrested or had had a family member arrested or injured.

From October 2000 through March 2004, over 2,800 Palestinian fatalities and 25,600 non-lethal injuries were attributed to the IDF. By the end of 2002, some 1,600 homes were destroyed, 14,000 damaged, and $650 million of damage done towards public infrastructure. Unsurprisingly, suicide bombers often experience personal trauma related to the Israeli force prior to their volunteering, such as the death or injury of a family member.

Prior research posits correlative links between economic damage and violent outcomes in conflict scenarios (Manoucher Parvin, 1973), a finding confirmed in more recent studies that find a significant relationship between the two during the First Intifada (Marwan Khawaja,1995). Suicide bombers are particularly vulnerable to the severe economic conditions in the Palestinian Territories. Closure dampens earning potential while discouraging entry into the labor market. Overeducated against the mean, suicide attackers face high losses relative to their educational investment; since many come from larger families and face crushing obstacles in labor market entry, the lack of feasible economic alternatives produces higher probability of violent militancy.

With regard to the economic determinants of attacks we find that an increase in the Palestinian income per capita will reduce Palestinian attacks against Israelis; likewise, a reduction in the unemployment rate reduces the incentive for young Palestinians to participate in political violence.

 

[S.A.M.]

No fraternization between men and women apart from marriage for one thing.

There is no such limitation. Even in very strict countries like Saudi Arabia, fraternization is only forbidden with strange men. There is no taboo against fraternization with family which in Islam includes not only parents, but also all uncles, brothers, cousins, grandparents and extended male relatives. In progressive countries like Lebanon and Morocco, the fraternization is similar to Western countries.

The taboo is on extra-marital and pre-marital sexual relationships which is also present in non-Muslim conservative societies such as India and is part of acceptable sexual behaviour in societies where family stabiltiy is considered essential for a stable social structure.

 

[KennyJC]

No fraternization between men and women apart from marriage for one thing.

What? That is tame. Do you know about Sharia Law?

48% of Muslims want this in the UK which I would find rather funny if it wasn't so creepy.

 

[spidergoat]

But few other cultures face economic deprivation in this way. From what I have heard, religion is an inseparable part of the suicide bombers rationale. Isn't this: "Fourth, almost all suicide bombers are unmarried and male" significant?

Rehov does mention "organized poverty" as a factor:

Q - Describe the culture that manufactures suicide bombers.
A - Oppression, lack of freedom, brain washing, organized poverty, placing God in charge of daily life, total separation between men and women, forbidding sex, giving women no power whatsoever, and placing men in charge of family honor, which is mainly connected to their women's behavior.

Why are so many suicide bombers young men?
As discussed above, libido is paramount. Also ego, because this is a sure way to become a hero. The shaheeds are the cowboys or the firemen of Islam. Shaheed is a positively reinforced value in this culture. And what kid has never dreamed of becoming a cowboy or a fireman?

How can we put an end to the madness of suicide bombings and terrorism in general?
Stop being politically correct and stop believe that this culture is a victim of ours. Radical Islamism today is nothing but a new form of Nazism. Nobody was trying to justify or excuse Hitler in the 1930s. We had to defeat him in order to make peace one day with the German people.
http://www.pierrerehov.com/media_ctblog.htm#continue

 

[spidergoat]

There is no taboo against fraternization with family...
I'm not talking about family.

The taboo is on extra-marital and pre-marital sexual relationships ...
I'm not talking about sexual relationships necessarily, but everything that happens before that, hanging out, relating to peers of the opposite sex, ect... Other cultures are conservative, but few actually forbid girls and boys from interacting entirely (with the exceptions you mentioned).

 

[S.A.M.]

There is no taboo against fraternization with family...
I'm not talking about family.

The taboo is on extra-marital and pre-marital sexual relationships ...
I'm not talking about sexual relationships necessarily, but everything that happens before that, hanging out, relating to peers of the opposite sex, ect... Other cultures are conservative, but few actually forbid girls and boys from interacting entirely (with the exceptions you mentioned).

Then you are talking only about the Wahabis. i.e. Saudi Arabia and Oman.

Watch an Arabic music channel. Except for some conservative families, most of the culture is pretty mixed. This is less so in the uneducated of course, but that is true even in India, among non-Muslims.

It is not as unrestrained as in the West, of course, but that is also a cultural factor; no doubt there are many differences between cultures in the East and West. Not all of them favor the West, either.

 

[spidergoat]

What about the Palestinians? I wager that all sexually repressed cultures tend to be more warlike and death-oriented.

 

[S.A.M.]

But few other cultures face economic deprivation in this way. From what I have heard, religion is an inseparable part of the suicide bombers rationale. Isn't this: "Fourth, almost all suicide bombers are unmarried and male" significant?

Oh do you mean to say that the US army is made up mostly of old married men?

And that the soldiers who die are not honored or considered as martyrs for their country? That they do not receive posthumous commendations?

Rehov does mention "organized poverty" as a factor:

I doubt the boys who lose their family members, come from large families and are over educated for the labor market, would consider "organized poverty" as a simple factor.

Why are so many suicide bombers young men?
As discussed above, libido is paramount. Also ego, because this is a sure way to become a hero. The shaheeds are the cowboys or the firemen of Islam. Shaheed is a positively reinforced value in this culture. And what kid has never dreamed of becoming a cowboy or a fireman?

Yup did you see the average age of the IDF soldiers on TV?

How can we put an end to the madness of suicide bombings and terrorism in general?
Stop being politically correct and stop believe that this culture is a victim of ours. Radical Islamism today is nothing but a new form of Nazism. Nobody was trying to justify or excuse Hitler in the 1930s. We had to defeat him in order to make peace one day with the German people.
http://www.pierrerehov.com/media_ctblog.htm#continue

Frankly religion is a good smokescreen, but explain to me why the frequency of suicide bombers is highest in Palestine? Why have sexually frustrated adolescent Muslim boys discovered suicide terrorism only after the intifada? Why are the maximum number of suicide bombers seen in and around Israel. There are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world. There have been what 200-300 suicide bombings? And most of them around Israel? Concentrated in a small pocket in the ME? And you think this is because of religion? And sexual frustration?

 

[spidergoat]

I think a sick culture has evolved that has nothing to do with the well-being of the Palestinian arabs.

 

[S.A.M.]

What about the Palestinians? I wager that all sexually repressed cultures tend to be more warlike and death-oriented.

Then I shudder to think of the sexual habits of Americans.
i.e. an armed nation is a polite nation.

or is it:
"Is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

I don't agree that suicide bombers are about religion.

Muslims are about religion, it is a way of life for them, they include religion in all parts of their life, including I suppose suicide bombings. That is not a motivation or justification however.

There are other things that suicide bombers have in common.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jul2005/nf2005076_7420_db056.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bomber

 

[KennyJC]

samcdkey: People who are fundamentally religious do crazy things, in such a way that non-religious can't match.

This is not just aimed at muslims (who's holy book and sharia law instructs you to amputate the hands and feet of theives), but Christians and Jews also. Strength of religious faith invariably correlates with instability and violence.

The sooner you realize this the better, instead of insisting that religion has no influence or cause in exacerbating violence or creation of warped political policies.

One of these days I will stop being lazy and post an indepth thread about it. However until I do that, take my word for it, you are wrong and deceitful in your blind defence of religious faith.

 

[S.A.M.]

samcdkey: People who are fundamentally religious do crazy things, in such a way that non-religious can't match.

This is not just aimed at muslims (who's holy book and sharia law instructs you to amputate the hands and feet of theives), but Christians and Jews also. Strength of religious faith invariably correlates with instability and violence.

The sooner you realize this the better, instead of insisting that religion has no influence or cause in exacerbating violence or creation of warped political policies.

One of these days I will stop being lazy and post an indepth thread about it. However until I do that, take my word for it, you are wrong and deceitful in your blind defence of religious faith.

I think it is short sighted of you not to realise that violent uprisings are associated with infringement of rights and war is associated with a grapple for resources and power.

Religion may be a common factor, but 80% of the world is theist. It would be extremely hard to find anything related to human beings where religion was not a common factor. However, since 80% of the world is not fighting with each other, it is safe to say that it is not the only factor.

 

[spidergoat]

Here is an analysis of Palestinian suicide bombers:
http://www.ecaar.org/Newsletter/Nov04/saleh.htm

Yes, I don't necessarily disagree with their analysis, such as it is, but they completely fail to addresss the subject of religion.

Do you think the bombers would still do what they do if they didn't believe their actions were condoned by Islam?

 

[S.A.M.]

Yes, I don't necessarily disagree with their analysis, such as it is, but they completely fail to addresss the subject of religion.

Do you think the bombers would still do what they do if they didn't believe their actions were condoned by Islam?

Actually their actions are not condoned by Islam; in fact suicide bombers break two rules of Islam.

1. They commit suicide which is forbidden.
2. They target civilians, which is a sin and which is one of the two sins in Islam punishable by death (i.e. murder and terrorising the community) aka haraba.

The vast majority of mainstream Islamic judicial opinion rejects suicide for any reason.[18] [19]

According to Professor Charles A. Kimball, chair of the Department of Religion at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, "There is only one verse in the Qur'an that contains a phrase related to suicide", Verse 4:29 of the Qur'an.[20] It reads "O you who believe! Do not consume your wealth in the wrong way-rather through trade mutually agreed to, and do not kill yourselves. Surely God is Merciful toward you." Some commentators believe that the phrase "do not kill yourselves" is better translated "do not kill each other", and some translations (e.g. Shakir) reflect that view. (A note on the Qur'an's unique textual density is perhaps in order here: It is not uncommon for a single Qur'anic Arabic phrase to embrace two or more complimentary meanings at the same time, and this may be the case with 4:29.)

Mainstream Islamic groups such as the European Council for Fatwa and Research use the Quran'ic verse Al-Anam 6:151 ("And take not life, which Allah has made sacred, except by way of justice and law") as further reason to prohibit suicide.[21] In addition, the hadith unambiguously forbid suicide.[22]

 

[spidergoat]

Perhaps we can agree that Islam in this context is a culture, not just words on a page.

These bombers are not just killing themselves, but attacking a percieved enemy, so the situation is more complex. There is certainly room for jihad and martyrdom in Islam.