Islam and homosexuality

daisy250 said:
You said that homosexuality has and always will be a part of mankind. I'm saying that it is NOT a part of mankind, it was started by people who have no boundaries. It wasn't there from the beginning, and it was not a revolution, if thats what you're suggesting..
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Huh? Ermm you are aware that homosexuality has always existed in pretty much every animal on this planet, including the homo sapien? People don't choose to be homosexual. They just are. It has nothing to do with boundaries. Don't forget that homosexuality existed before man set any boundaries... before man ever even conceived of the notion of any form of worship or 'God'.
 
Proud_Muslim said:
In other words, Paul had to take the penis of Timothy in his mouth in order to circumcise him! Note also how strongly Paul opposes circumcision elsewhere in the New Testament:
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Strongly opposed circumcision? Then doesnt that indicate that Paul didnt like sucking blood out of penises? So you dont really have a point here. You and that muslim website was just trying to decieve & mislead your readers. :bugeye:
 
Bells said:
Don't forget that homosexuality existed before man set any boundaries... before man ever even conceived of the notion of any form of worship or 'God'.
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Bells, homosexuality have not always existed. Homosexuality is a conscious choice made by man. The action of homosexuality starts at the point the choice is made to act in that direction. You will never know exactly at what point in time did humans made the choice to sleep with same sex. I also don't know when that happened, but we both know that first came humans, then the choices came next at some point.

As far as you second sentence. You don't know anything about when did man first think about "creator" or god. I think man had to start formulating a notion about creation and life purpose from his/her inception. I even think animals have an idea about creation and purpose. The question was more important to the first man than it is to us now a day, why was the first man so little compared to his environment, why was the environment so harsh, why did humans die, why did they multiply, why did they feel, why did they love, why did they hate, ect....so I expect to see men from the past conceiving notions about a creator much more than we would see today. Modern man have been desensitized about his purpose and creator. Now a day you are born in a state of the art hospital with all the technology to take care of you..no need to reflect. Back then, you were born alone in a harsh environment and you tend to reflect much.
 
Flores, I know it is pointless to debate you about this. But just in case you'll listen; people do not choose to have homosexual desires anymore than they choose to have heterosexual ones. I never made a conscious choice to find young womens curvy bodies sexually atractive. It is just how I am. The same goes for gays. And for pedophiles for that matter, something I'd never considered until Dan Savage mentioned the idea in his column.

People don't have a choice over who they find attractive. They do have a choice on whether they act on those attractions or not. A gay man who does not have sex with other men does not stop being gay because he isn't having sex, any more than I stop being straight because I'm not having sex with women. Or pedophiles who know their attraction to children is wrong, and therefore never have sex period.

Of course some straights occasionally have same sex partners, just as some gays have ones of the opposite sex. Who you can fall in love with determines your sexuality more than anything.

For me personally, what I can't imagine is walking down a moonlit beach, holding hands with another guy. But that's ok, they can do just fine without me.

And the more gay men there are, the better. More single women means my chances of finding one who likes her men tall, thin, and goofy increase. Anything that tips the odds in my favor, I'm all for it.
 
Homosexuality is a conscious choice made by man. The action of homosexuality starts at the point the choice is made to act in that direction.
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Homosexuality is not an action, it is an orientation or attitude. There are bundles of evidence that it is not a matter of choice, but is an innate tendancy shared by around 10-15% of the population.

You will never know exactly at what point in time did humans made the choice to sleep with same sex. I also don't know when that happened, but we both know that first came humans, then the choices came next at some point.
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The ancestor species of humans had same-sex relations long before humans came along.
 
Proud_Muslim said:
Did Paul have gay urges?

In other words, Paul had to take the penis of Timothy in his mouth in order to circumcise him!

Note also how strongly Paul opposes circumcision elsewhere in the New Testament:
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what a gay fantasy you are spreading, why is this so-called fact only reported in 'hate' sites? No jew would do what is stated there, liar.

Paul opposed circumcision for non-jews, Mexicans like me do not have to go through that, but you as an muslim, should have had it done at 13 years old, like Abraham did to Ishmael.

BTW, are you relating as to how muslim circumcision is done? are you telling us a secret? you must have felt better after the cut, no?
 
James R said:
Homosexuality is not an action, it is an orientation or attitude.
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maybe, hormones during pregnancy, I think more of a life choice

There are bundles of evidence that it is not a matter of choice, but is an innate tendancy shared by around 10-15% of the population.
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10% in SF, NY or LA, 2% more likely. I'm still waiting for proof, why would 'nature' make genetic losers? nature blasts sperm & eggs everywhere, the nature of nature is to explode with life, not to go to a non-productive lifestyle, all nature wants to reproduce; from viruses, bacteria, salmons, flowers, trees, birds & bees, why would nature put a design error then, a flaw? it's nurture more likely, or a chemical in our environment, or some triggering event, like puberty, & no place to go, but some eager male? humans only have a few instincts, "dating & mating" are learned responces, & 'love' is a chemical responce, all in the head (pun intended)

The ancestor species of humans had same-sex relations long before humans came along.
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I guess that means, there are fossils of males caught in fellegrato?
 
Hi folks,

I am a Muslim and I am willing (and hopefully able) to take on your issues with Islam and homosexuality.

Anyone care to present their concerns? Here is what I think:

Overall, homosexuality in Islam is a sin, it is forbidden much like any sexual activity outside the fold of marriage. To understand Islam's view on the issue, here are some points that best summarize it:

• A social structure that is built with the family at its core. It is crucial to keep that in mind when examining the view of Islam. Crucial because the focus of the laws and culture here in the west is the individual. In Islam, you have obligations towards and rights over your immediate family. For example, under Islamic law, your mother can take you to court if you fail to take care of her and it would be the court’s business to look into the matter.
• A view of sex as having two sides. Sex is viewed not just as pleasure, but as an act of reproduction with obvious important responsibilities. That is, the act of forming new life. It is not sanctioned outside of marriage. Pre-marital sex, fornication, adultery, prostitution and pornography are all forms of sexual behavior that augment the aspect of pleasure, but ignore the aspect of responsibilities of this act of reproduction.
• A clear definition (literally stated in Quran) of what makes a family. Adoption in Islam is not allowed. You may take a child into your care and you will be rewarded immensely by God, but that does not make the child your own. No matter how long the child lives with you, no matter how unkind the child’s true parents may have been. Muhammad himself had an adopted son and he had to restore the son's old name and stop calling him his son.
• Any sexual behavior that is harmful is banned. This is common sense.

In light of these principles, having sex with members of the same sex is an act of sexual pleasure with no reproductive responsibilities and no ability to form a family. On an individual level, the sexual practices associated with homosexuality are oral sex and anal sex, both are more risky forms of sexual activity with anal sex being ridiculously harmful.

Adious..
 
So, pleasure is only allowed within marriage? And you're not allowed to "augment" the pleasure too much, or you're overemphasizing the wrong aspect. Is that right?

What do you think a fair ratio of sex acts for fun vs. sex acts for procreation would be for a married couple?
 
I am sorry, can you show me where I said this? You made the following claims:

a) Pleasure is allowed only within marriage.
b) You are not allowed to "augment" the pleasure too much. Otherwise you are emphasizing the worng aspect.
c) That there is a ratio beween sex for fun and sex for reproduction that could/should be maintained.

Where did I say any of these things? These are not my points. I cannot explain points that you made. I will be more than glad to answer questions that have to do with what I posted though.
 
Karlos said:
Hi folks,

I am a Muslim and I am willing (and hopefully able) to take on your issues with Islam and homosexuality.

Anyone care to present their concerns? Here is what I think:
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and what makes you an expert? what are your credentials?
are you gay? or just festive? or just trying to put your point across? which is ok too, thanks for joining us
 
Karlos said:
Hi folks,

I am a Muslim and I am willing (and hopefully able) to take on your issues with Islam and homosexuality.

Anyone care to present their concerns? Here is what I think:

Overall, homosexuality in Islam is a sin, it is forbidden much like any sexual activity outside the fold of marriage.
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there was another thread that said that young boys are used by unmarried men, because they are not allowed to have sex with women until marriage, is that true? what is this behavior called? if its not homosexual, what does it fall under? what is it called? boys being boys? Michael Jacksonism, or catholic priesting?
 
Sex with boys, chairs, and cattle is forbidden. Just like sex with a woman who is not your wife. No more, no less. Again, the main concept here is guidance and social order.

I am not an expert, just a person interested in discussing matters and sorting out stuff. For example, you just came up with an unfounded rumor about Muslims saying that sleeping with boys is allowed, this is false. It is not allowed in Islam, thus you and I have just been part of a useful act of dispelling a myth that was out there. For this, I am grateful.
 
Karlos said:
Sex with boys, chairs, and cattle is forbidden. Just like sex with a woman who is not your wife. No more, no less. Again, the main concept here is guidance and social order.

I am not an expert, just a person interested in discussing matters and sorting out stuff. For example, you just came up with an unfounded rumor about Muslims saying that sleeping with boys is allowed, this is false. It is not allowed in Islam, thus you and I have just been part of a useful act of dispelling a myth that was out there. For this, I am grateful.
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But it is not a myth. It may be a myth to say that all sects of islam allow it but I have seen rulings from Iranian religious leaders detailing what must be done to livestock that a man has had sex with and what to do if a man damages a baby by penetrating it (with his penis). I will get some links for you
 
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Some quotes from ayatollah Khomeni's book "Tahrir-ol-Masael"

"If one commits an act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrements become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed as quickly as possible and burned, and the price of it paid to its owner by him who sodomized it."
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"If a man __ God protect him from it! _ fornicates with an animal and ejaculates, ablution is necessary."
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A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However, he should not penetrate. If he penetrates and the child is harmed then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however would not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girl's sister. The complete Persian text of this saying is listed below.
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:eek:

These are translations from the farsi found here

Khomeni quotes
 
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