Islam and homosexuality

[Greco]

I came accross this article of gay arabic men and the suffering they endure in a society that punishes homosexuals with death.

http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/garab16_20040316.htm

 

[Repo Man]

You can expect PM to avoid this thread like the plague. There are those on this forum who will excuse his rantings out of a misplaced sense of cultural relativism. He realizes he would lose their sympathy if he condemned gays to death. But I'm sure that he feels that is a just punishment for their "crimes".

If I'm wrong, I'm sure he'll correct me.

A quick Google search using Islam and gays gave me this.

Now we learn that on January 1, 2002, Saudi Arabian authorities publicly beheaded three gay men after Islamic religious courts in the southwestern city of Abha declared them guilty of "engaging in the extreme obscenity and ugly acts of homosexuality, marrying among themselves and molesting the young," charges obviously exaggerated to provoke public outrage.

With the defeat of the Taliban, Saudi Arabia is now the world's most repressive Islamic regime — with its Taliban-like, truncheon-wielding religious police, a nationwide ban on other religions, state support for fundamentalist religious schools, and complete censorship of media and the Internet.

Troublingly, there have been few noticeable condemnations of the Saudi executions from human rights groups, none from moderate Islamic groups, no expressions of concern from the U.S. or Western European governments.

http://www.indegayforum.org/authors/varnell/varnell84.html

But it seems that at the same time homosexual behavior is very commonplace their. Maybe guys start to look good when the only women you see are wearing bee keeper suits.

I used to have a friend from Egypt. The only thing he ever said about his short stay in an all male Saudi school was, "let's put it this way; I'm not gay".

I suppose it is just one more reason us decadent westerners have to be destroyed. Arab gays are getting the idea that they shouldn't have to hide or risk death merely for being who they are.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

I came accross this article of gay arabic men and the suffering they endure in a society that punishes homosexuals with death.

http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/garab16_20040316.htm

Funny, this was not how islam started:
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/world/europe/turkey/islamottoman.htm

When I was in the USAF, one of the supervisors in my unit, said that when he was in Wheeless AFB in Libya.He said that during Ramadan, muslims had sodomy to give birth to the madhi (the muslim messiah), since tradition said that the madhi would be born of a man????? and while I was in college, a friend that had been station in Turkey, said the same thing, that that was the reason that many Turks wore those weird trousers with the baggy bottoms, because men had to check their poop, to make sure that the madhi wasn't there. I didn't make this up, I find it interesting that 20 years apart, two USAF airman had heard the same story in two very different countries. If you practice sodomy during Ramadan, you are not 'gay', but it does make you 'festive'. True or false? Check it out.

 

[crazymikey]

Interestingly, there seems to be an obvious pro-homosexual reference in the Quran. Where Muhammed, talks about nubile young boys, and beautiful virgins, in heaven for the taking of the good muslim men.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

hey, here is a site about what islam now believes:

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaapplication/english/display.asp?hFatwaID=72432

I find it interesting that no muslim has touched this thread with a ten foot pole, could it mean something, like there is some shame to this, maybe a little truth?

 

[Maia]

Never thought I'd see the word 'nubile' be attached to 'boys'.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Never thought I'd see the word 'nubile' be attached to 'boys'.

nubile? check "gay islam" or "islam sex" sites, you will see many references to nubile boys, not just as the 72 virgins in paradise
http://www.globalgayz.com/Muslimgay-news98-02.html

Sex as Power; Denial as Safety
Sexual relations in Middle Eastern societies have historically articulated social hierarchies, that is, dominant and subordinate social positions: adult men on top; women, boys and slaves below. The distinction made by modern Western "sexuality" between sexual and gender identity, that is, between kinds of sexual predilections [and] degrees of masculinity and femininity, has, until recently, had little resonance in the Middle East. Both dominant/subordinate and heterosexual/homosexual categorizations are structures of power. They position people as powerful or powerless, "normal" or "deviant." The contemporary concept of "queerness" resists all such categorizing in favor of recognizing more complex realities of multiple and shifting positions of sexuality, identity and power.

In early 1993, news of President Clinton's proposal to end the US military's ban on service by homosexuals prompted a young Egyptian man in Cairo, eager to practice his English, to ask me why the president wanted "to ruin the American army" by admitting "those who are not men or women." When asked if "those" would include a married man who also liked to have sex with adolescent boys, he unhesitatingly answered "no." For this Egyptian, a Western "homosexual" was not readily comprehensible as a man or a woman, while a man who had sex with both women and boys was simply doing what men do. It is not the existence of same-sex sexual relations that is new but their association with essentialist sexual identities rather than hierarchies of age, class or status.

You can use "man boy sex" as key words

or check these sites out to name a few

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/ramadan/archives/000282.php

http://archive.salon.com/health/sex/urge/world/2000/01/07/kuwait/

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Homosexuality has been found in all races and cultures. It was prominent and accepted in the Roman Empire. The Caesars took young boys as lovers so as not to commit adultry. Some were made eunuchs so they would retain that "nubile" physique known as gynecomastia or the plump "nubile" breasts of young boys. Get real, people. There are fewer homosexual Muslims than homosexual Christians. Homosexuality was the religious practice of the Essenes (the semen drinking ritual) which eventually turned into "the body and blood of Christ" as the Eucharist. Paul, himself, may have been gay, and his partner may have been Timothy. We discussed this not long ago. Homosexuality has been known and condoned throughout history. It ain't gonna go away, boys.

 

[DoctorNO]

There are fewer homosexual Muslims than homosexual Christians.

You mean there are fewer REPORTED homosexual Muslims than homosexual Christians.

Not surprising. Afterall gays are being exterminated in Islamic states....

 

[everneo]

hey, here is a site about what islam now believes:

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaapplication/english/display.asp?hFatwaID=72432

I find it interesting that no muslim has touched this thread with a ten foot pole, could it mean something, like there is some shame to this, maybe a little truth?

From that site :

Al-Bayhaqi reported in his book Shu`ab al-Iman on the authority of Abu ad-Dunya that Abd al-`Aziz ibn Abi Hazim related from Dawud ibn Bakr who related from Muhammad ibn al-Mukadir the following:

Khalid Ibn al-Walid wrote to Abu Bakr [seeking the legal ruling] concerning a man with whom another man had sexual intercourse. Thereupon, Abu Bakr gathered the Companions of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, and sought their opinion. `Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, was the strictest of all, saying, 'Only one nation disobeyed Allah by committing such sin and you know how Allah dealt with them. I see that we should burn the man with fire.’ The Companions unanimously agreed on this.

This fatwa against homosexuality issued within 2 years of the death of Mohammad. During Abu Bakr's Caliphate. Not only this, fatwas against "mutta" (temporary marriage) and "drinking" also issued within 10 years of Mohammad's death, during caliph Umar's period, though there is no explicit prohibition/punishment for these in Quran.

Islam does not take linient view as widely believed in homosexual circles. Certain pleasure loving sultans might have taken linient view but if the Ulama rules (theocracy like taliban), it would send them to hell/paradise as soon as they are caught.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Homosexuality has been found in all races and cultures.

true, some more than others

Homosexuality was the religious practice of the Essenes (the semen drinking ritual)

you never provided verifiable links to this so-called practice, why hasn't it come out in BAR, or some college or archeology journal? why is that? because you & the new agers made it up?
ogh, sounds like bad*medicine, again

which eventually turned into "the body and blood of Christ" as the Eucharist.

only people like you would believe this, maybe for satanists, wishfull thinking, you need medicine, woman

Paul, himself, may have been gay, and his partner may have been Timothy.

Paul may or may not have been gay (if that was the thorn he was writing about), but he still condemned the practice, why?

We discussed this not long ago. Homosexuality has been known and condoned throughout history. It ain't gonna go away, boys.

& ended up in circles, no resolution, where are the links to journals? come on, BAR broke the embargo on the Dead Sea scrolls, why didn't they expose the this scandolous secret? you been reading the NI again, or some scandolous rag?

Check here:
http://www.bib-arch.org/
http://faculty.bbc.edu/ggromacki/deadseascrolls/dss_websites.htm

 

[567]

Creator of christianity was a HomoSexual why on earth Christians don't like homosexuals??

Creater of Christianity I.e PAUL AKA SAUL.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Creator of christianity was a HomoSexual why on earth Christians don't like homosexuals??

Creater of Christianity I.e PAUL AKA SAUL.
*************
M*W: Good analogy. There was a thread about Paul being gay. Although Christians fiercely rejected this idea, it deserves more discussion. It only makes sense that if Paul were gay, his followers (the Christians) would deny it. It's bad enough that Christians deny Paul aka Saul was a liar, thief and murderer. There are allegations that have stated that Paul sucked Timothy's penis following his circumcision. None of this matters to me, I reject the whole lot of Christianity from then to now. It's all a lie.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Creator of christianity was a HomoSexual why on earth Christians don't like homosexuals??

Creater of Christianity I.e PAUL AKA SAUL.
*************
M*W: Good analogy. There was a thread about Paul being gay..

you forgot honesty, that thread was started by you

Although Christians fiercely rejected this idea, it deserves more discussion. .

no proof, I for one don't care if he was or wasn't gay, He wrote against it, he knew it, just as God had said that it was & is a sin

It only makes sense that if Paul were gay, his followers (the Christians) would deny it. .

only makes sense to a warped mind like yours, you are so anti-christian you almost spit & foam at the mouth on cyberspace, a unique aspect of your personality

It's bad enough that Christians deny Paul aka Saul was a liar, thief and murderer. .

and your proof is?

There are allegations that have stated that Paul sucked Timothy's penis following his circumcision. .

allegations only found on muslim anti-christian hate sites, now why is that?

None of this matters to me, .

Liar, your post proves you wrong, your history on this forum proves you wrong, let anybody check your posts, what would they see? 9 out 9 anti-christian threads started by none other than you, why is that? doesn't really matter to you? you are obsessed, foaming mad
Check this out:
http://sciforums.com/search.php?searchid=52445

I reject the whole lot of Christianity from then to now. It's all a lie
.

luckily for us Christians, your rejection does not hurt us, but it will hurt you as you go slowly mad, bad*medicine woman, into the dispair, knowing that you will never know this truth, asking yourself, " is Jesus really God, should I pray?"

 

[Zero]

As for the rest of us non-Muslim/non-Christian folk, we can either joyfully take a side or sit and be entertained by sifting through the insults to find some interesting hidden points.

However, it is true that homosexuality is ubiquitous and not specific to Islam or Christianity. Hell, the roman pagans loved it. The Spartans idealized it as a component of good military training. Isn't it odd that the US military would be anti-gay? Embrace the system of one of the most effective militaries of all time! Hehe. I can just feel those military bots scouring my post and marking me up. Whoops.

--Long Live the Female Messiah.

 

[DoctorNO]

M*W: Good analogy. There was a thread about Paul being gay. Although Christians fiercely rejected this idea, it deserves more discussion. It only makes sense that if Paul were gay, his followers (the Christians) would deny it. It's bad enough that Christians deny Paul aka Saul was a liar, thief and murderer. There are allegations that have stated that Paul sucked Timothy's penis following his circumcision. None of this matters to me, I reject the whole lot of Christianity from then to now. It's all a lie.

There are also allegations that the old man Prophet Mohammed rapes & fingers 9 year old girls, slaves & relatives. So Islam is a lie too eh? None of this matters to me, I reject the whole lot of Islam from then to now. It's all a lie.

 

[okinrus]

Are you suggesting, M*W, that being gay is evil, repulsive, and not befitting of someone like Paul?

 

[DoctorNO]

Are you suggesting, M*W, that being gay is evil, repulsive, and not befitting of someone like Paul?

Now that sexual discrimination, eh?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Are you suggesting, M*W, that being gay is evil, repulsive, and not befitting of someone like Paul?
*************
M*W: No, I'm not suggesting that being gay is evil or repulsive. What I am suggesting is that Christians say that being gay is evil, repulsive, and not befitting of someone like Paul, yet they worship Paul and deny his homosexuality. Personally, I don't care if Paul was or wasn't gay. He was a misogynist, a murderer, a thief and the liar who created Christianity. One should not be condemned for his sexual preferences (unless its pedophilia or the like) no more than they should be condemned for the color of their eyes or hair. Homosexuality occurred in those days just like it does today. That doesn't mean all homosexuals are evil and repulsive murderers, thiefs and liars who create misogynist new religions.

 

[Flores]

There are also allegations that the old man Prophet Mohammed rapes & fingers 9 year old girls, slaves & relatives. So Islam is a lie too eh? None of this matters to me, I reject the whole lot of Islam from then to now. It's all a lie.

DoctorNo, your punishment for lying is not in the least that you are not believed, but that you cannot believe anyone else.

I pity your suffering.