"Organized religion is false,
and anyone who follows it is lost."
-from the band Evilhands
and anyone who follows it is lost."
-from the band Evilhands
Is 'Western Islam' a Separate Religion?
- Thread starter Gordon
- Start date
That's what they do, spiritually oriented hip hop. Anyway, on second thought, I'm not sure if that's the band the quote comes from.
Sorry, it was the Mindclouders, not Evil Hands.
Tell me more.
It's irony.
LiveInFaith
Registered Senior Member
spidergoat said:
exactly; there are some branches of knowledge required to learn for one to be mastering qur'an, then able to do translation. The same does for anyone to translate any specific subject paper into different language, need certain level of knowlede besides languange.
Life; what a question, can't answer that.
A person; same respon, can't answer.
Allah; The One God almighty.
LiveInFaith said:
No muhammeds definition.
Qur’an 8:12 “I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.”
Qur’an 8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”
Qur’an 9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”
Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”
Maybe you should read his words sometimes.
Or are you one of the 87% false muslims?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Samcdkey:
Here's a few that I can remember too, theres many many more.
Disbelievers(*) will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90
"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45
Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17
and last this ones for you personally
For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138
(*) Disbelievers being anybody who does'nt believe in allah( pig piss be upon him)
Here's a few that I can remember too, theres many many more.
Disbelievers(*) will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90
"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45
Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17
and last this ones for you personally
For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138
(*) Disbelievers being anybody who does'nt believe in allah( pig piss be upon him)
LiveInFaith
Registered Senior Member
Adstar said:
I'm not so surprised about youre opinion about islam had those all you know about Qur'an.
I did.
How could I answer this? I simply can't.
Thank you for the replies especially from muslims to whom the original question was aimed.
Unfortunately with the diversion from the usual anti-theistic tirades, we seem to have gone away from the question asked.
If we take the 87%/13% split as 'good' (clearly open to some discussion that one), it still must represent a very different view from those living in most islamic states.
What is more, as clearly represented in the quote, the views of freedom of speech, freedom of action, freedom of religion are very different amongst muslims in western countries such as the UK, compared to the view again in islamic countries to the east.
The question remains therefore is this because those in the west have objectively adopted a different intepretation of Islam or because the basically western concepts listed have been embraced culturally because muslims are living in that type of society? Does a western muslim believe that it is better or worse to be a muslim in the USA, the UK or elsewhere in the EU for instance than in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Indonesia? In other words is the 'westernised Islam' (peaceful coexistence, open discussion, respect and dialogue with other religions) more correct (or more true to Islam) than that in many other majority Islamic countries (no freedom of speech, repression and persecution of other religions)? Which has gone down the wrong path?
As an outsider, I find it very difficult to reconcile the eminently reasonable statements made by UK muslims in the press and TV etc. with the anti-semitic and anti western vitriol and violence that emanates from parts of the muslim world elsewhere. To me this seems impossible to reconcile as merely differences in interpretation.
There are of course many different interpretations in other major religions but these do not seem to have the same end result.
As it is one year since the London bombings tomorrow, this is clearly a sensitive subject in the UK and I am sure that like me very few of the 60 million of us living on this island want to see any form of religious hatred and associated violence.
regards,
Gordon.
Unfortunately with the diversion from the usual anti-theistic tirades, we seem to have gone away from the question asked.
If we take the 87%/13% split as 'good' (clearly open to some discussion that one), it still must represent a very different view from those living in most islamic states.
What is more, as clearly represented in the quote, the views of freedom of speech, freedom of action, freedom of religion are very different amongst muslims in western countries such as the UK, compared to the view again in islamic countries to the east.
The question remains therefore is this because those in the west have objectively adopted a different intepretation of Islam or because the basically western concepts listed have been embraced culturally because muslims are living in that type of society? Does a western muslim believe that it is better or worse to be a muslim in the USA, the UK or elsewhere in the EU for instance than in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Indonesia? In other words is the 'westernised Islam' (peaceful coexistence, open discussion, respect and dialogue with other religions) more correct (or more true to Islam) than that in many other majority Islamic countries (no freedom of speech, repression and persecution of other religions)? Which has gone down the wrong path?
As an outsider, I find it very difficult to reconcile the eminently reasonable statements made by UK muslims in the press and TV etc. with the anti-semitic and anti western vitriol and violence that emanates from parts of the muslim world elsewhere. To me this seems impossible to reconcile as merely differences in interpretation.
There are of course many different interpretations in other major religions but these do not seem to have the same end result.
As it is one year since the London bombings tomorrow, this is clearly a sensitive subject in the UK and I am sure that like me very few of the 60 million of us living on this island want to see any form of religious hatred and associated violence.
regards,
Gordon.
LiveInFaith
Registered Senior Member
spidergoat just mentioned, cultural prejudice has role in interpreting scripture. And I agree with that.
Had been a muslim society under such suppression from western policies, the way they react upon bombing acts may vary. "Reaction', also including the method they develop fanatism in order to be able to fight against foreign involvement.
Had been a muslim society under such suppression from western policies, the way they react upon bombing acts may vary. "Reaction', also including the method they develop fanatism in order to be able to fight against foreign involvement.
Adstar said:
You only managed to find 4 quotes? There are pages and pages of similar quotes RE infidels.
Interesting though that you paste these quotes as if to say this religion is evil, yet when someone does this to your Bible, you defend them to the death, just like Muslim apologists will do with the Quran.
Here are the simple facts;
Many Muslims are good people...but...they dont know their Koran: Islam is a religion of fear. It is necessary that they be exposed to Christianity, the religion of love and mercy.
God is allowing the Muslims to gain advantage of the West because most of the West has long forsaken Catholicism, even Christianity altogether.
The West has castrated itself because of this.
LiveInFaith
Registered Senior Member
Lawdog said:
Apparently you know Koran more than muslims do.
this is without doubt the biggest load of BS, always trying to justify the evil they do, or blame someone else.Gordon said:
there another crock, most muslims have a very good way of life, what they do have unfortunately, is an oppressive religious R'egime, ruling their lives, however most aledged extremist(I have only just recently met muslims who ar'nt extremists, read the book they follow.) are very wealthy, they dont throw spears, they firer missiles/bombs. the IRA for instance, used to rob places to get money for weapons, you dont tend to hear of muslim bank robbers do you.Gordon said:
yes it makes me so ashamed.Gordon said:
he's not picking on them, he's as I said trying to justify the evil, salman rustie had it right, the satanic verses.Gordon said:
Disbelievers(*) will be burned with fire. 2:39, 90Gordon said:
"Fight in the way of Allah." 2:190, 2:244
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45
Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17
(*) Dis/unbelievers being anybody who does'nt believe in allah( pig piss be upon him)
I personally am disgusted, it would disgust me more if others thought that, fortunately they dont, well I'm sure two of them, perhaps three, dont think like that.Gordon said:
your religion is no better, come on think before you speak.Lawdog said:
you hav no idea do you. compare the two holy books the quran is just slightly worse/more evil. and that is just a tiny bit.
irradicate religion, and then you'll have peaceful happy people.
well just like the xians and their bible, you read the quran with your eyes blinkered.LiveInFaith said: