Is suicide painless?

Another question, Lou.
Why wait?
You could move there while you are still young, strong, healthy and virile.
Learn how to survive there.
Live in and amongst nature until you die the natural and romantic way.
You would be less likely to get cancer, but if you did, you would already be there.
 
I want to be hunted. There aren't any serious predators in australia.
I could go the shark route, but I just love everything about the african savahnah.
Thats where humans come from and I feel like the african ecosystems know better than anywhere else how to dispose of a human being.
 
Dr Lou Natic said:
I feel like the african ecosystems know better than anywhere else how to dispose of a human being.
Except maybe Brooklyn.
Ask Jimmy Hoffa. ;)
 
one_raven said:
Another question, Lou.
Why wait?
You could move there while you are still young, strong, healthy and virile.
Learn how to survive there.
Live in and amongst nature until you die the natural and romantic way.
You would be less likely to get cancer, but if you did, you would already be there.
Hehe
Oh I'm definately trying to cheat.
My plan is cowardly and selfish really.
I'm going to milk the benefits out of the civilised western world for all they're worth, and then recieve the benefit reserved for the battlers that is dieing by way of predation and being consumed.
Dieing slowly on the death bed almost seems like the punishment for having such an easy life in comparison to wild animals. I'm going to cheat, live the easy life and then have an honourable death as though I deserve it when I clearly do not.
No question i am trying to have the best of both worlds(although not everyone would consider being torn apart by hyenas a "privelidge", I very much would).
So sue me;)
 
Mystech said:
Furthermore I still have no idea at all what suicide has to do with the topic of this thread.

It *was* the topic of this thread. I used the story as an illustration. I'm used to people losing the forest for the trees, though.

Where you fall on the issue of suicide comes down to your perception of the value of human life, whether the quality of that life matters, or simply being alive is the important thing. Personally, I don't think being alive is such a swell plan when life is crap. I quit reading Danielle Steele novels in high school because I couldn't understand why someone's life that was *just absolutely shit* would continue to put themselves through it. To this day, I can't understand how certain people can go their entire lives without thinking at least once of taking themselves out of it.

I suppose my point of view is as alien to them as it is to me, and I envy their position. I doubt I'll ever share it.

None of this is meant to imply that suicide is always justified. My oldest brother died of cancer in 2001, and all during his illness we understood that if he ever gave the word that he was in too much pain to go on, we would help him out. (The last part of his illness he was comatose so it didn't come to that: if it had, I would have overdosed him *in a heartbeat*). However, I have little patience for people to act with the specific intent to "show" everyone else. That kind of suicide is just the last act of someone who has acted with only their own interests in mind throughout their lives, and is usually a predictable end to a narcissistic existence.
 
one_raven said:
The point is, she pointed out a situation in which the shrink testified that people feel like their only option is murder.
She asked, in a similar situation, should suicide be seen as a viable option to murder as a way out of the situation.

I don't appreciate being called an idiot.
If you posted because you wanted to discuss this with me, then that will not help.
If you posted simply to insult me with with no intention of having a discussion, you can go fuck yourself.
Yah, but you never once mentioned the other half of it so i wasn't sure you knew it was there. Quite funny the way you think you're so much better than everyone else that everyone is trying to make an attack on you because your death would be so important and unforgivable. I was referring to elsewhere it was mentioned and don't worry, I will.
 
bitterchick said:
It *was* the topic of this thread. I used the story as an illustration. I'm used to people losing the forest for the trees, though.

Hi Bitterchick! (ha ha, still love that name!)

I took the first post as an example of someone choosing "death" as an option in a hopeless situation. Their own or someone else's was irrelevent. Then you specified suicide.

I am constantly accused of using flawed analogies. And I do, I admit it.

Certainly, the boy in the story would have no reason to choose suicide, but he did choose death.

So when is it ok to choose suicide? Almost never. Terminal illness with lingering pain I can understand perhaps. Sorry to hear about your brother. I would certainly have a tough time helping someone take that step, but I think I would, under those circumstances.
 
Silverback said:
Hi Bitterchick! (ha ha, still love that name!)
Silverback said:
Gracias. :)

Silverback said:
I am constantly accused of using flawed analogies. And I do, I admit it.
Silverback said:
And I am frequently accused of using 12 words when 2 will do. ;)

Silverback said:
So when is it ok to choose suicide? Almost never. Terminal illness with lingering pain I can understand perhaps. Sorry to hear about your brother. I would certainly have a tough time helping someone take that step, but I think I would, under those circumstances.
Silverback said:
Fortunately (what an odd choice of word), it didn't come to that. My career would have been over, but I would have "pulled the plug" if it had become necessary.

I've known one and of two other people how have suicided, all for apparent depression-related reasons. Even that, to a degree, I can understand. When life becomes too emotionally painful to be awake, I can at least appreciate, if not approve of, the impulse. A person afflicted with depression can always seek medical help, but sometimes that can result in making things worse -- I actually lost a job when my employer found out I was being treated for depression (following my brother's death and my divorce less than a year later). Everything is swell *now*, but for a few touch-and-go months I wasn't sure if I would ever be able to find another job, pay my bills, keep my car, keep my dogs (who are my *kids*). I kept pushing through, though, because frankly I was the only one who was going to be able to pull me through it all.

I guess the best anyone can do is just keep on truckin'.
 
MOst of the suicide cases are because of Psychological problems.Oprah W show had a girl who would just cut herself without any cause,she said she involuntarily did that,it was just an impulse...when alone she would just cut herself...She couldnt help it...Off course she didnt wanna die!! but she couldnt resist!!

Suicide is and should be a Psychological problem result and nothing else...


bye!
 
There are many cases in which any reasonable person would consider suicide to be a perfectly rational and justified decision. If someone I loved had a choice between living for a few months (or years) in constant pain or ending their life immediately, I couldn't really fault them for choosing suicide.

Whle that may be so that is your point of view. There are still gonna be people who believe that, them living for a few months or even years would benefit them. Maybe they would get better, maybe there would be a solution or cure to get them away from the pain. Of course I am not like this, but as I said there are people who are like this.

have had friends that have committed suicide, and nothing pissed me off more than those that complained about how it made the survivors feel.

I suppose teh main reason why people do this is because those who are left behind after the suicide receive the pain of grief and loss since they lost a loved one. They are left with pain after the person who commited suicide is relieved of it.

If someone you loved committed suicide and all you could think about is how YOU feel about them and how YOU miss them, and what they did TO YOU, then I don't think you truly understand what it means to love someone.
You didn't love that person, you posessed them because you like the way they made YOU feel when you were with them.

Yeah well people tend to do it and they do it all the time, and not just with people. It is found all the time, for instance and can be seen in relationships between animals and people...but grief effects everyone in different ways. When someone takes a blow from losing someone they love they go into a state of denial, always thinking about the person. These thoughts tend to go to how they could have prevented it, how they could have helped, and why the person did it. They begin to hate themselves becuase they couldn't help the person. They begin hating others because they couldn't help. This is depression right there and its always found in someone in all suicidal cases. Infact, it is inhuman not to miss them. According to you, you should just think about why they drove to this suicidal conclusion rather than missing the person themselves. Why wouldn't u miss someone you loved? You will never see them again for the rest of your life so u must feel some kind of emotion towards them, wether it be sadness, madness, or grief.
 
rainbow__princess_4 said:
Quite funny the way you think you're so much better than everyone else that everyone is trying to make an attack on you because your death would be so important and unforgivable.

What are you talking about?
 
bitterchick said:
"Whether tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune...."

I was watching a story on A&E yesterday about this 19 year old kid who apparently got the crap beat out of him on a daily basis by his grandfather. Said grandfather also repeatedly beat and raped the boy's mother (his own daughter), beat the boy's grandmother, and the boy's sister. Grandad started making moves toward the sister. After one particularly brutal beating, when the boy was 19, the boy, a friend of his, and his stepfather shot and killed granddad while he was sleeping.

The psychologist hired by the defense said that people can feel trapped in a situation, and murder seems the only way out.

Now, that's just not true. Neil from "Dead Poets Society" demonstrated that aptly.

When is suicide understandable? Even forgivable? When your physical pain becomes so unbearable as to make simply living hell on earth, I'd give that. But what level of psychological suffering must one reach before it's okay to off oneself?

What on earth are you talking about?

I pray that you never have to experience the TRUE feeling that depression gives a person. Depression that genuinely requires drugs to keep a person sane, to keep a person even half happy, to stop a person from cutting their arms. Depression is a real disease, it's not a choice, it's ALWAYS completely forgivable if a person commits suicide, ALWAYS.

You seem to have no idea of what depression is. When a person is depressed it affects their entire body in ways you can't imagine.

What level of psychological suffering must one reach before it's okay to off oneself?
Would you ask that if your child had shot him/herself in the head and you came home and had to call the ambulance while you cleaned up the blood. OR if say you came home and found your mother hanging from stairs with a noose around her head.
No you wouldn't.
 
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
I pray that you never have to experience the TRUE feeling that depression gives a person. Depression that genuinely requires drugs to keep a person sane, to keep a person even half happy, to stop a person from cutting their arms. Depression is a real disease, it's not a choice...
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
Totally agree. I've been in treatment for severe depression for five years, had panic disorder tacked on last summer.

Nebuchadnezzaar said:
, it's ALWAYS completely forgivable if a person commits suicide, ALWAYS.
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
No, no, it's really really not.

Nebuchadnezzaar said:
You seem to have no idea of what depression is. When a person is depressed it affects their entire body in ways you can't imagine.
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
Like not being able to sleep at night, but sleeping inappropriately throughout the day? Being so physically exhausted you can't lift your hands over your waist? Shaking so badly that people ask you if you have a neurological disorder? Losing 20 pounds in two weeks?

Nebuchadnezzaar said:
Would you ask that if your child had shot him/herself in the head and you came home and had to call the ambulance while you cleaned up the blood. OR if say you came home and found your mother hanging from stairs with a noose around her head.
No you wouldn't.
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
I started this thread for that precise reason. When the person who has killed herself is no longer around to tell you why, you search everywhere for answers.

I didn't find my mother with a noose around her neck. The police called to tell me she was dead. Had been dead for about 5 days before anyone noticed the newspapers were piling up on the lawn. (She lived in a different state from me, so it's not like I drove by everyday). She choked to death on her own vomit after she swallowed about 20 bottles worth of pills with a chardonnay chaser.

There was a note, but it just told me and my brother how to divide up her stuff.

I'm depressed, clinically and organically. I've thought of many interesting ways to take my own life. I have stared longingly at bridges and wondered how fast my car had to go to break through the safety rail. Or if my vacuum cleaner's cord would support my weight over the ceiling fan long enough to break my neck. I saved up prescription medications and kept them on standby (like mother like daughter, I guess). I haven't done it (obviously) but in my own mind, had I chosen to suicide, I would have known why.

I have no clue why my mother did.

I've spent the last 8 months just being really angry and honestly hating her for leaving me. I'd like to move past that, but I'm stalled at the why issue. I was kind of hoping someone else who had a similar experience could share some wisdom.

In short, I have to disagree with your premise. Finding a loved one cold and dead on the floor with an empty pill bottle in their hand actually inspires asking why, because when that person is gone, they've taken the answers with them.
 
bitterchick said:
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
I pray that you never have to experience the TRUE feeling that depression gives a person. Depression that genuinely requires drugs to keep a person sane, to keep a person even half happy, to stop a person from cutting their arms. Depression is a real disease, it's not a choice...
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
Totally agree. I've been in treatment for severe depression for five years, had panic disorder tacked on last summer.

Nebuchadnezzaar said:
, it's ALWAYS completely forgivable if a person commits suicide, ALWAYS.
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
No, no, it's really really not.

Nebuchadnezzaar said:
You seem to have no idea of what depression is. When a person is depressed it affects their entire body in ways you can't imagine.
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
Like not being able to sleep at night, but sleeping inappropriately throughout the day? Being so physically exhausted you can't lift your hands over your waist? Shaking so badly that people ask you if you have a neurological disorder? Losing 20 pounds in two weeks?

Nebuchadnezzaar said:
Would you ask that if your child had shot him/herself in the head and you came home and had to call the ambulance while you cleaned up the blood. OR if say you came home and found your mother hanging from stairs with a noose around her head.
No you wouldn't.
Nebuchadnezzaar said:
I started this thread for that precise reason. When the person who has killed herself is no longer around to tell you why, you search everywhere for answers.

I didn't find my mother with a noose around her neck. The police called to tell me she was dead. Had been dead for about 5 days before anyone noticed the newspapers were piling up on the lawn. (She lived in a different state from me, so it's not like I drove by everyday). She choked to death on her own vomit after she swallowed about 20 bottles worth of pills with a chardonnay chaser.

There was a note, but it just told me and my brother how to divide up her stuff.

I'm depressed, clinically and organically. I've thought of many interesting ways to take my own life. I have stared longingly at bridges and wondered how fast my car had to go to break through the safety rail. Or if my vacuum cleaner's cord would support my weight over the ceiling fan long enough to break my neck. I saved up prescription medications and kept them on standby (like mother like daughter, I guess). I haven't done it (obviously) but in my own mind, had I chosen to suicide, I would have known why.

I have no clue why my mother did.

I've spent the last 8 months just being really angry and honestly hating her for leaving me. I'd like to move past that, but I'm stalled at the why issue. I was kind of hoping someone else who had a similar experience could share some wisdom.

In short, I have to disagree with your premise. Finding a loved one cold and dead on the floor with an empty pill bottle in their hand actually inspires asking why, because when that person is gone, they've taken the answers with them.


My mother took her life in July or 2000. Lucky for me I have sort of come to terms with why my mother killed herself, this has only been due to the help of my father and sister and some of her closest friends.

Suicide is always forgivable, if you can't forgive the person who has passed then you will never finish grieving properly. Though grieving is a process which never truely ends, it can end in terms of constant pain felt.

Soon after my died i began taking drugs(only marajuana) on a grander scale than otherwise normally would have. By 2002 I was absolutely depressed, i went to see at least four different psychologists many times always thinking they had nothing to offer me. Many times i thought about ways to dissapear, to kill myself, thinking the pain was so bad and that nothing would ever happen to change that. I used to drink so much alcohol in a night hoping that i would get poisoning and never wake up.

But I could never truely kill myself, no matter how depressed i got, probably because i was never really that bad. People can get much worse than i was and as it seems you are, you still have control over your thoughts it seems.

but you are depressed. The thing which saved me was the faact that i didn't want to end up like my mum, i didn't want to leave my loved ones behind, i didn't want to miss out on the fun things that COULD and HAVE ended up happening. I've learnt that life is a state of mind, if you think it is shit it will be shit and so on. That may sound like philosophical bullshit but it's not, it's real.

If you want to not be depressed, you have to keep telling yourself that you don't want to be depressed, that you want to get better, that you want to function properly, that you don't want to let sadness rule over you. Keep telling yourself that.

The you have to take action, be it going to see a psychologist, just to tell them your problems, it's always good to talk to a person about your problems because it takes some of the burden off of you.

I have more i'd like to write but i feel i should stop now.

remember, depression is a disease, and like any other, can be defeated.
 
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