is life about the survival of the fittest chemistry?

pluto2 said:
After all this time scientists still don't have a clue as to how the human body really works so biology is rapidly becoming a pseudoscience.

Scientists still don't know why we feel pain and why certain people experience pain differently and much more intensely than others and biological science should be able to answer that question and the fact that it doesn't means that biology is becoming a pseudoscience.
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Wow, that's quite a leap and wholly unsupported by the rapidly advancing science in biology. You may want to look back and watch the Anil Seth clip about how our brains process incoming sensory information and trigger an illusionary but real experience.
As Anil Seth proposes; "you don't need to be smart (intelligent) to feel pain, but you probably have to be alive".

All experiences of being Sad, happy, pain, joy, gratification, and a host of other sensory experiences are produced by the brain.

Pain is experienced in the subconscious body control functions of the brain. We cannot "see" inside our bodies, but that subconscious "control mechanism" will tell us when something goes wrong with our bodies. In fact it is what keeps us alive.

We know that all sensory experiences are caused by electro/chemical information processed by the brain.

And I am sure that pain experienced by the brain is a chemical phenomenon. Perhaps an acid which "burns" living tissue and is experienced by the brain as the "emotional experience" of pain. Consider "pain killing" medicine (chemicals) which reduce the experience of pain. How does that happen? They clearly affect brain function (warning, do not use while driving). How does that happen? What about anti-inflammable medicine (chemicals) which control the swelling of injured tissue? These are all chemical processes, some directly introduced into the blood stream, or naturally produced by the brain, stimulating glands which produce chemicals.

One important fact to remember is that the brain and body recognize these chemicals. This is why they are effective in the first place.

Our study of brain functions is new but rapidly advancing due to our increasing ability to look at nano scales. Who knows what we will find there. To dismiss the study of emotional experiences such as "pain" as "pseudoscience" is wholly unwaranted at this time.

Can you offer another alternative? If not, then you do not have standing to make such a claim (from ignorance).
 
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pluto2 said:
After all this time scientists still don't have a clue as to how the human body really works so biology is rapidly becoming a pseudoscience.
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Demonstrably wrong.
Scientists still don't know why we feel pain
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Demonstrably wrong.
and why certain people experience pain differently and much more intensely than others and biological science should be able to answer that question and the fact that it doesn't means that biology is becoming a pseudoscience.
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Certain people are just cry babies and obsess over a little bit of pain. If you hit your finger with a hammer say 'goddamnit' and move on for god sake.
 
origin said:
Certain people are just cry babies and obsess over a little bit of pain. If you hit your finger with a hammer say 'goddamnit' and move on for god sake.
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The interesting part is that when we observe someone hit their finger with a hammer, our brains produce the same electro/chemical activity as the victim. Which is really odd if you think about it. We do not experience the pain, but we wince just as if we had hit our own finger wirh a hammer.

IOW, from observation alone our brain responds as if it was actually experiencing the pain. It's called an empathic response, created by our mirror neural system. To me this is one of the most fascinating abilities of our brains and perhaps one of the most important survival functions, at least in humans.
 
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pluto2 said:
After all this time scientists still don't have a clue as to how the human body really works so biology is rapidly becoming a pseudoscience.
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So all the medical advances over the last few decades have been lucky guesses?
 
Write4U said:
It's called an empathic response, created by our mirror neural system. To me this is one of the most fascinating abilities of our brains and perhaps one of the most important survival functions, at least in humans.
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It's nice to know that empathy isn't just something that was made up by bleeding-heart liberals. :)
 
sideshowbob said:
It's nice to know that empathy isn't just something that was made up by bleeding-heart liberals. :)
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Indeed, IMO, empathy is what makes us human, and it can be found in several other species.
To date, no widely accepted neural or computational models have been put forward to describe how mirror neuron activity supports cognitive functions.
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But we are learning and imitating from experience and observation alone. That's why we know it exists......:)
The subject of mirror neurons continues to generate intense debate. In 2014, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B published a special issue entirely devoted to mirror neuron research
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_neuron
 
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Write4U said:
Wow, that's quite a leap and wholly unsupported by the rapidly advancing science in biology. You may want to look back and watch the Anil Seth clip about how our brains process incoming sensory information and trigger an illusionary but real experience.
As Anil Seth proposes; "you don't need to be smart (intelligent) to feel pain, but you probably have to be alive".

All experiences of being Sad, happy, pain, joy, gratification, and a host of other sensory experiences are produced by the brain.

Pain is experienced in the subconscious body control functions of the brain. We cannot "see" inside our bodies, but that subconscious "control mechanism" will tell us when something goes wrong with our bodies. In fact it is what keeps us alive.

We know that all sensory experiences are caused by electro/chemical information processed by the brain.
Click to expand...

It's not just in the brain though.

Scientists assume that all pain is made by the brain but what if it's not made in the brain but produced locally?

That's why I'm saying that modern biology is becoming a pseudoscience.
 
sideshowbob said:
It's nice to know that empathy isn't just something that was made up by bleeding-heart liberals
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It's very common for theoretical breakthroughs, clever inventions, new comprehensions of objects or situations, to have been made in large part via an act of empathy of a kind.
Recall Einstein's account of the breakthrough that led to Relativity: he imagined himself as the lead edge of a beam of light, and considered what he would see.
I once read an account of the working methods of a well-respected mechanical engineer, famous for designing things like the production lines that manufacture plastic utensils. He described his design approach as continually and normally involving such things as imagining himself as the blob of plastic being run through the machine.
It's completely normal for a human being hunting, designing, creating, figuring something out, to basically anthropomorphize the situation - project themselves into this or that aspect of things. It works for all kinds of situations where engaging the brain is critical - that's how we think when we're thinking at the top of our game.
 
pluto2 said:
It's not just in the brain though.
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Right, there is skin conductance or also known as electrodermal activity (EDA)
Description[edit]
Skin conductance is not under conscious control. Instead, it is modulated autonomously by sympathetic activity which drives human behavior, cognitive and emotional states on a subconscious level. Skin conductance, therefore, offers direct insights into autonomous emotional regulation.[20]
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IOW, the brain functions at a subconscious level also. And the skin itself works as an reflexive electrical distribution system.
Human extremities, including fingers, palms, and soles of feet display different bio-electrical phenomena.They can be detected with an EDA meter, a device that displays the change electrical conductance between two points over time. The two current paths are along the surface of the skin and through the body. Active measuring involves sending a small amount of current through the body
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrodermal_activity
Scientists assume that all pain is made by the brain but what if it's not made in the brain but produced locally?
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Obviously this phenomenon has been studied in-depth and is used practically for various purposes.
That's why I'm saying that modern biology is becoming a pseudoscience.
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No it isn't. The link clearly shows that the study of EDA is part of "modern biology" and falsifies your statement.
But this is the way it appears to work.
The autonomic nervous system (ANS), formerly the vegetative nervous system, is a division of the peripheral nervous system that supplies smooth muscle and glands, and thus influences the function of internal organs.[1]The autonomic nervous system is a control system that acts largely unconsciously and regulates bodily functions such as the heart rate, digestion, respiratory rate, pupillary response, urination, and sexual arousal.[2]
This system is the primary mechanism in control of the fight-or-flight response.
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Within the brain, the autonomic nervous system is regulated by the hypothalamus. Autonomic functions include control of respiration, cardiac regulation (the cardiac control center), vasomotor activity (the vasomotor center), and certain reflex actions such as coughing, sneezing, swallowingand vomiting. Those are then subdivided into other areas and are also linked to ANS subsystems and nervous systems external to the brain. The hypothalamus, just above the brain stem, acts as an integrator for
Autonomic functions, receiving ANS regulatory input from the limbic systemto do so.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomic_nervous_system

800px-1503_Connections_of_the_Parasympathetic_Nervous_System.jpg

Illustration from Anatomy & Physiology, Connexions Web site. http://cnx.org/content/col11496/1.6/, Jun 19, 2013.

Please do watch the Anil Seth clip ;
https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality
 
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pluto2 said:
It's not just in the brain though.

Scientists assume that all pain is made by the brain but what if it's not made in the brain but produced locally?

That's why I'm saying that modern biology is becoming a pseudoscience.
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You mean, in the arse, for example? :D
 
pluto2 said:
Scientists assume that all pain is made by the brain
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This is not an assumption.

but what if it's not made in the brain but produced locally?
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I see you, just guess that maybe it isn't

That's why I'm saying that modern biology is becoming a pseudoscience
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Sound like you do not understand biology, what pseudoscience means or both.
 
pluto2 said:
It's not just in the brain though.
Scientists assume that all pain is made by the brain but what if it's not made in the brain but produced locally?
Click to expand...
Pain isn't "made in the brain." Pain is PERCEIVED in the brain.
That's why I'm saying that modern biology is becoming a pseudoscience.
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From your postings, what comes across is "Pluto2 doesn't understand modern biology so he thinks it's a pseudoscience."
 
pluto2 said:
It's not just in the brain though.

Scientists assume that all pain is made by the brain but what if it's not made in the brain but produced locally?

That's why I'm saying that modern biology is becoming a pseudoscience.
Click to expand...

As others have pointed out, pain is a perception.

You can literally stop pain by blocking the signals from the nerves.

Yes, the body produces electrical stimuli in response to possible damage, but that is not pain until it is perceived so by the brain.
 
billvon said:
From your postings, what comes across is "Pluto2 doesn't understand modern biology so he thinks it's a pseudoscience."
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It is a pseudoscience because pain is not only in the brain.

And yes I do understand modern biology much better than you, apparently.
 
pluto2 said:
It is a pseudoscience because pain is not only in the brain.

And yes I do understand modern biology much better than you, apparently.
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I guess it sucks to be you. Sorry, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world is wrong.
 
origin said:
Demonstrably wrong.

Demonstrably wrong.

Certain people are just cry babies and obsess over a little bit of pain. If you hit your finger with a hammer say 'goddamnit' and move on for god sake.
Click to expand...
Science does not know why we feel pain.
It just knows that certain conditions in the brain, are correlated with pain.

Same as it knows, the nose is associated with smell. But it does not explain why smells, smell. The hard problem of consciousness.
Science has no answer why we are conscious of our our nuerons, and why we feel different types of consciousness, depending on the function of the neurons.

In 20 mins I shall comment on Seth's ted video.

Write4U said:
I believe Anil Seth explained the phenomenon of conscious and subconscious experience of pain concicely here:
https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality

And just having undergone a surgery I can completely identify with his presentation.
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Meh. It's an interesting video but doesn't explain consciousness or solve the hard problems of consciousness.
But its an interesting insight onto how drugs change our perceived reality of the world.
 
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