Is knowledge the enemy of faith? (My response)

[Thoreau]

I posted this on another forum but wanted to see what you guys (and gals) think.

Is knowledge the enemy of faith, as the old saying goes?

Say for example that one is taught to believe that the flood of Noah actually happened and that this belief was a part of their faith. Then all of the sudden the world's geologists all agree that there is no evidence of a literal global flood and that this biblical tale is false.

This knowledge discredits their faith in that it proves it wrong. Now, sure, you could still have faith that the worlds scientists are wrong and that it did still happen, but that is also the definition of stupidity - an intellectual incapability or an unwillingness to properly consider the relevant information.

So, with faith can come stupidity. However, one can also be stupid and knowledgable. In other words, they can be aware of and understand the truth, but just not accept it as true - hence again, the definition of stupidity.

So, upon reflection, and from analyzing the dichotomy of ignorance and stupidity in relation to faith, we are then able to understand that knowledge is in fact not the enemy of faith simply because one can choose not to have faith in that knowledge but would rather have faith in faith. Woah! Now we're getting into circular reasoning. But I won't go too much further into that.

If anything is the enemy of faith, it is - by its very definition - intelligence.

Lastly, one can also be intelligent and ignorant - ignorance meaning the simply lack of knowledge; in other words, having never been exposed to that knowledge.

So, what do you think? Agree or Disagree?

 

[John99]

"So, what do you think? Agree or Disagree?"

Disagree.

"If anything is the enemy of faith, it is - by its very definition - intelligence."

Enemy?

So you never had faith in someone?

Flood?...

How much of the Earth is water?

 

[Dywyddyr]

So, with faith can come stupidity. However, one can also be stupid and knowledgable. In other words, they can be aware of and understand the truth, but just not accept it as true - hence again, the definition of stupidity.

Um, if one rejects that knowledge then one is not knowledgeable. Knowledge is a true justified belief and if one doesn't believe something then surely they don't have knowledge? What they do have is information.

If anything is the enemy of faith, it is - by its very definition - intelligence.

Much as it may pain me to say it (I hope NMSquirrel doesn't read this!) one can have faith while still being intelligent.
Don't forget that a great number of renowned scientists (especially in the past) had faith while also advancing the knowledge of makind as a whole. Were they dumb?

Personally I'd still stick with knowledge as the enemy of faith...


Although I believe the actual quote (Martin Luther) was Reason is the enemy of faith.

 

[John99]

There will be follow up questions so be prepared.

 

[SciWriter]

Agree. 'Faith' means 'unknown'. Dogma was made all at once, declaring all mysteries over. Science goes on, ever obtaining knowledge and solving mysteries.

note: let us not have some trust in knowns such as the sun rising or people doing things being falsely refereed to as to be like religious faith (which references an unknown).

 

[Dywyddyr]

"So, what do you think? Agree or Disagree?"

Disagree.

Hmm, why?

"If anything is the enemy of faith, it is - by its very definition - intelligence."
Enemy?

Try to keep up.
It's an old phrase.

So you never had faith in someone?

What's that got to do with it?

Flood?...
How much of the Earth is water?

Likewise: WTF is your point here?

 

[John99]

Hmm, why?

Should be obvious since you read the rest of the post.

It's an old phrase.

So?

 

[Dywyddyr]

Should be obvious since you read the rest of the post.

But it's not. Since the rest of your post went into non-sequiturs.

So?

Then make yourself aware of the history (and meaning) of the phrase, that way you won't have to question the word "enemy".

 

[SciWriter]

It is not strictly 'stupidity' than the potentially intelligent, rational part of the brain can be bypassed by the emotion of strong belief, but it is not good knowledge, either, that lets this state occur so reactively.

 

[John99]

Agree. 'Faith' means 'unknown'.

That is a bit simplistic.

Anser my questions.

 

[John99]

Then make yourself aware of the history (and meaning) of the phrase, that way you won't have to question the word "enemy".

This is not linguistics. MZ is looking for answers.

 

[Dywyddyr]

This is not linguistics.

Correct. It's not. Maybe you're confused again.

MZ is looking for answers.

And you're under the impression you're supplying them?

And you still haven't answered any of my questions.

 

[John99]

MZ, i hope you answer post #2. I had faith in you but now, after a few minutes, that faith is slipping. Go ahead take a crack at it.

 

[John99]

And you still haven't answered any of my questions.

First you have to ask questions in good faith.

 

[Dywyddyr]

First you have to ask questions in good faith.

Ah, you're assuming again.
Those preconceptions of yours really don't help you. Please try to lose them.

 

[SciWriter]

That is a bit simplistic.

Anser my questions.

You could look up 'faith' in the religious context instead of taking my word.

There is a whole lot of water on Earth, and there can be more at times if the ice caps melt, giving flooding, and certainly any historical floods need not be caused by 'God'.

 

[Thoreau]

"So, what do you think? Agree or Disagree?"

Disagree.

"If anything is the enemy of faith, it is - by its very definition - intelligence."

Enemy?

So you never had faith in someone?

Flood?...

How much of the Earth is water?

MZ, i hope you answer post #2. I had faith in you but now, after a few minutes, that faith is slipping. Go ahead take a crack at it.

There's really nothing to answer. Your first question is irrelevant and the answer to your second question is: Water covers 70.9% of the Earth's surface. But again, that too really has nothing to do with anything here.

 

[wynn]

Is knowledge the enemy of faith, as the old saying goes?

Who knows what "Knowledge is the enemy of faith" originally meant.

Once you know, you don't need faith. In that sense, knowledge makes faith redundant, thus making knowledge the enemy of faith.

There is no doubt a particular thrill in having faith - the excitement of expectation, the hope - it gets the adrenalin going.

One reason why people dread arranged marriages is because all the thrill and excitement of courtship and romance - the thrill and excitement of expectation - are absent.

People tend to love hope, they yearn for faith - they yearn to not be present right there and then where they currently are, and hope, faith are mental attitudes that take one out of the present.

 

[nietzschefan]

The world at the time of the (actual real) flood was about the size of the middle east + egypt + whatever China had going on. My un-educated guess in 6000-5000 B.C. Completely submerging Mesopotamia, much of the Levant and swelling all rivers that emptied into the Indian ocean and Med.

So I think the "flood" happened. It is in oral history and what was remembered passed into the written history of the Sumerians. Noah was Utnapishtim...ops sorry that was the "New" name the Babylonians gave him... His Sumerian name escapes me and google isn't helping...

Anyways the STORY is a good example of how to lose one's religion when reads into it's history. It IS A HANDMEDOWNSTORY, the very oldest one we humans have.

 

[SciWriter]

And the Lord saith: You know, I, um, made like a huge mistake by drowning most everyone with my Noachian Deluge, so I have invented the rainbow to demonstrate that I will never flood you all out again; however, I still have other forms of disasters at my disposal, so please shape up, and cripes, I already see the failures of Adam and Eve, plagues of locusts, Noah’s progeny, Moses and the Ten Commandments against a golden calf, the coming of my son, and the Lady of Fatima.