Is Joe Paterno Responsible for Penn State Scandal?

[Shogun]

Some of you have probably heard about the child sex abuse scandal at Penn State.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...State-American-football-scandal-grips-US.html

I know coach Paterno fulfilled his legal responsibility by informing the athletic director and the President of Penn State, but he should have told the police when he realized that nothing was done about Sandusky, therefore I think he failed in his moral responsibility.

Any thoughts?

I'm a Penn State fan, and always admired the "Linebacker U" that Sandusky built and coach Paterno's Nittany Lions, so this really pissed me off

 

[spidergoat]

For not beating Sandusky's face in with a bat? Yes he's responsible.

 

[Repo Man]

I think it really comes down to a line from another cover up, long ago: what did he know, and when did he know it? If Paterno had information that could have prevented Sandusky from raping more children, and did not act on it, then he became an accessory to child rape. If that were the case, then being forced to retire is being let off easy.

 

[chimpkin]

If Paterno had information that could have prevented Sandusky from raping more children, and did not act on it, then he became an accessory to child rape. If that were the case, then being forced to retire is being let off easy.

There's that...I think teachers, period, fall under "legal obligation to report" laws.
http://public.findlaw.com/abaflg/flg-3-3g-3.html

The law compels a wide range of people who have contact with children to report suspected child abuse or neglect. Such people include doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, and childcare providers. A person who is required to report suspected neglect or abuse may face civil or criminal penalties for failure to do so.

For those of you not familiar with US law:
Criminal cases require a stricter standard of evidence : "Beyond a reasonable doubt." Civil cases require merely a preponderance of evidence...
So the possibility these coaches will get sued for civil negligence is pretty decent, while criminal charges are far less likely.
Part of the reason we are so lawsuit-happy here; if you've been criminally wronged, it's easier to get civil penalties. The money is the main reason, but anyway...

 

[Tiassa]

A slightly broader view

Is Paterno solely responsible? No.

Is he culpable? Morally, yes. Legally? Well, that seems to be a question up in the air.

We must remember that there are any number of subcultural influences that helped screw this up, but, ultimately, if we cut through all of that and consider basic sociomoral obligations to our fellow human beings, and especially the abstract principles of what we owe future generations, none of those really matter.

Indeed, I think when the furor dies down, we will once again be left reconciling our notions of process and hierarchy within any given functional organization.

 

[Shogun]

There's that...I think teachers, period, fall under "legal obligation to report" laws.
http://public.findlaw.com/abaflg/flg-3-3g-3.html

Yeah, but Paterno wasn't really a teacher, he was a college football coach...I'm not sure if the same laws apply

 

[Shogun]

I think it really comes down to a line from another cover up, long ago: what did he know, and when did he know it? If Paterno had information that could have prevented Sandusky from raping more children, and did not act on it, then he became an accessory to child rape. If that were the case, then being forced to retire is being let off easy.

Well, apparently a former Penn State quarterback and one of the assistant coaches saw him raping a little boy in the locker room. He told Paterno and Paterno passed it on. He knew about it since 2002.

He said he wanted to retire at the end of the season, but the board of trustees fired him instead.

 

[milkweed]

There should be more heads rolling than Paterno's.

The abuse of Victim 6 dated back to 1994 or 1995 - Victim 6 testified that Sandusky's interactions with him overlapped with Victim 5, whom he knew. When the mother of Victim 6 learned that he had showered with Sandusky she reported it to University Police, who initiated an investigation. When the county's then-district attorney decided there would be no criminal charges, the director of the campus police ordered the investigation closed.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57323072/sandusky-victim-1-called-hero-for-speaking-out/

 

[Shogun]

Yeah, I agree its a failure by the entire system. Penn State wasn't really Penn State, it was pretty much Paterno State. The Nittany Lions pretty much ran the show.

 

[Bells]

Yeah, but Paterno wasn't really a teacher, he was a college football coach...I'm not sure if the same laws apply

Yes they do.

Well, apparently a former Penn State quarterback and one of the assistant coaches saw him raping a little boy in the locker room. He told Paterno and Paterno passed it on. He knew about it since 2002.

One of the most disturbing aspects of this is that even after Sandusky was reported to Paterno, a witness who apparently saw him sodomising a 10 year old boy in the locker room/shower, and Paterno reported Sandusky to his superior, nothing was done. Instead, Sandusky was given access to the university's sporting grounds for his charity organisation that dealt with under-privileged children, some of whom he also molested, even after he was reported by the witness to the rape of the child. It beggars belief to be honest.

And this:

Saturday, Nov. 5

The indictment paints a picture of a predator hiding in plain sight, bringing youngsters to practices and even bowl games while still on Paterno's staff, and for nearly a decade afterward. Sandusky retired in 1999, soon after learning he wouldn't succeed Paterno, ostensibly to devote more time to his family and The Second Mile, a charitable foundation he established two decades earlier to work with at-risk youngsters. In hindsight it was a curious career move, since Sandusky was 55 at the time and boasted the kind of resume that marked him as a prime candidate for a head-coaching job at most big-time programs.

Instead, he negotiated a retirement package that afforded him an office in the Nittany Lions' football building and the run of Penn State's athletic facilities, including some at satellite campuses to stage summer football camps. As late as last week, Sandusky was spotted working out in the team's weight room.​

None of those priviliges were removed after a witness say him raping a 10 year old boy. In fact, nothing was done about it. But yes, more heads do need to roll.

 

[Asguard]

Bells I don't know any more about this story than what is written here but the mandatory reporting training we are given states that if we suspect abuse we call the hotline, give them everything they want, write down notes in case we need them latter and thats it, we aren't supposed to tell even the child or there parents (where they are not involved in the abuse) anything about it. Youth and family services don't chose to investigate thats unfortunately the end of the matter.

So if this guy followed the instructions he was given, passed it on what else was he supposed to do? Cant talk to the child because that might put them in more danger, cant talk to the parents for the same reason, cant tell anyone else in the school even if other people are endanger so why is this his fault?

 

[Janus58]

Yeah, but Paterno wasn't really a teacher, he was a college football coach...I'm not sure if the same laws apply

In my state, the law extends to anyone that is employed by an educational facility, even including such support positions as building maintenance and custodians.

 

[cosmictraveler]

If the victims, who so far were very young boys about 10 to 12 years old, were only to have Sandusky found out about by the police when he was first committing these acts there wouldn't be as many of them today. So if Paterno would have done the LEGAL thing and called the police, for this was a CRIMINAL offense, then the victims would not have been raped by Sandusky any longer when they allege that Sandusky did it.

If all people do is report any criminal activity to their boss and they know there's a young child that's being raped, then I do hold them responsible for this information not being passed on to the police. As to Paterno being charged with a crime, no he wasn't that I know about as yet but he sure should be fired and ostracized for his withholding information that could have stopped the raping of children.

If it was your child being raped would you not want someone to let the police know it was happening since many parents won't believe their own children today if they tell them about such things. :shrug:

 

[Bells]

Bells I don't know any more about this story than what is written here but the mandatory reporting training we are given states that if we suspect abuse we call the hotline, give them everything they want, write down notes in case we need them latter and thats it, we aren't supposed to tell even the child or there parents (where they are not involved in the abuse) anything about it. Youth and family services don't chose to investigate thats unfortunately the end of the matter.

So if this guy followed the instructions he was given, passed it on what else was he supposed to do? Cant talk to the child because that might put them in more danger, cant talk to the parents for the same reason, cant tell anyone else in the school even if other people are endanger so why is this his fault?

This isn't an Australian case, so what Australian authorities do or would or should do does not apply here.

Paterno reported it to his superior, who then reported to his superior. What it comes down to is that no one went anywhere with it and the guy was allowed to have access to university grounds to run training session with other children, some of whom he abused (even on university grounds). This is after the initial witness report of his sodomising a child in the showers.

I have to wonder if it is something about the sports culture that resulted in this being ignored or overlooked.. The whole old boys club so to speak.
The culture where the game means more than reporting a former coach assistant to the police for sexually abusing children.

According to the presentment, Sandusky's sexual assault on Victim 2 occurred several years earlier than Victim 1, in 2002. In that case a graduate assistant discovered Sandusky and a boy approximately ten years of age engaging in sexual activity in the shower room of the Lasch Building on the Penn State campus. The assistant notified head coach Joe Paterno, who contacted other Penn State officials.

The witness was later told that Sandusky had been reported to The Second Mile, but University Police never interviewed the graduate assistant, who was never questioned until he testified before a grand jury in December 2010.

[Page 1]


In Fall of 2000 a janitor observed Sandusky performing oral sex on a boy, Victim 8, in the showers of the Lasch Building. The boy was described as being between ages 11 and 13. The janitor, a temporary employee was described by his supervisor as "very emotionally upset" and "very distraught" when informing him of what he'd seen. But no official report was made, and the identity of Victim 8 is unknown. The janitor now resides in a nursing home suffering from dementia, and is deemed incapable of testifying.

[Page 2]
​

Even after these allegations and reports from witnesses who saw him molesting children on university grounds, nothing was done about it and he was still given access to the sporting facilities to train disadvantaged children. That is what gets to me. Nothing was done. Nothing was said.

And this case gets dirtier by the day:

After Sandusky was charged this month with 40 counts of sexually abusing children, Judge Leslie Dutchcot freed him on $100,000 bail, against the wishes of prosecutors.

A biography of Dutchcot posted on the website of the law firm Goodall & Yurchak lists her as a volunteer for The Second Mile, a program for troubled youths that Sandusky founded.​

 

[chimpkin]

In my state, the law extends to anyone that is employed by an educational facility, even including such support positions as building maintenance and custodians.

In my state it extends even beyond that...I seem to remember it being anyone over 18 is required to report a child in danger.

What are the legal obligations of reporting suspected abuse in Texas?
We are a mandatory reporting state, and what that means is that our state mandates that anyone who suspects abuse must report it. That means report it to authorities, local law enforcement, not your boss.
If they even suspect abuse they are required to report it, not just if it's an eyewitness account. It's a much lower burden of proof. They don't have to be 100 percent sure that it happened, if it's just suspected.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/11/13/3523000/reporting-child-abuse-is-required.html#ixzz1dhNxwcgs
According to Pennsylvania law, it is anyone whose job brings them in contact with children who are required to report. As soon as Sandusky abused the kids at what was their worksite, then the witnesses and everyone on staff had an obligation to call the police.
http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/domestic-relations/00.063.011.000.html
So it should have been reported to the police.

 

[superstring01]

Directly? No.

Indirectly? Yes.

• For lack of oversight.
• For lack of "commanding his ship" and being responsible for all actions under his command.
• For lack of probity.

~String

 

[Shogun]

One of the most disturbing aspects of this is that even after Sandusky was reported to Paterno, a witness who apparently saw him sodomising a 10 year old boy in the locker room/shower, and Paterno reported Sandusky to his superior, nothing was done. Instead, Sandusky was given access to the university's sporting grounds for his charity organisation that dealt with under-privileged children, some of whom he also molested, even after he was reported by the witness to the rape of the child. It beggars belief to be honest.

And this:

Saturday, Nov. 5

The indictment paints a picture of a predator hiding in plain sight, bringing youngsters to practices and even bowl games while still on Paterno's staff, and for nearly a decade afterward. Sandusky retired in 1999, soon after learning he wouldn't succeed Paterno, ostensibly to devote more time to his family and The Second Mile, a charitable foundation he established two decades earlier to work with at-risk youngsters. In hindsight it was a curious career move, since Sandusky was 55 at the time and boasted the kind of resume that marked him as a prime candidate for a head-coaching job at most big-time programs.

Instead, he negotiated a retirement package that afforded him an office in the Nittany Lions' football building and the run of Penn State's athletic facilities, including some at satellite campuses to stage summer football camps. As late as last week, Sandusky was spotted working out in the team's weight room.​

None of those priviliges were removed after a witness say him raping a 10 year old boy. In fact, nothing was done about it. But yes, more heads do need to roll.

Yeah, during his time he was one of, if not THE best defensive coordinator in college football, its where Linebacker U came from, Sandusky gave it to Penn State, I guess to the administrators and the coaching staff Linebacker U was more important to them then child sex abuse.

 

[spidergoat]

Directly? No.

Indirectly? Yes.

• For lack of oversight.
• For lack of "commanding his ship" and being responsible for all actions under his command.
• For lack of probity.

~String

Wrong. He's responsible directly for not going to the police immediately.

 

[milkweed]

Paterno is a scape goat. Sandusky was no longer working for the U when Paterno was told by the witness to one incident had he had seen. He had no power to fire Sandusky from his unconnected org.

It is a heavy charge to bring against someone. I can see why Paterno placed the responsibility higher up the chain of command than himself. He may have been told it was investigated and nothing was found to implicate Sandusky (like happened in 1998). The university has its own campus police and investigations are confidential. Paterno witnessed nothing and may not have been told about the 1998 incident below.

In 1998.. snipped a bit...his mother reported incident to Penn State police. It was investigated by Detective Ronald Shreffler. Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar chose not to prosecute. Shreffler testified before the Grand Jury that director of the campus police, Thomas Harmon, told him to drop the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Sandusky_child_sexual_abuse_scandal

Gricar is an interesting read on his own. There has been talk about this connection since the Sandusky case broke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

 

[Shogun]

Paterno is a scape goat. Sandusky was no longer working for the U when Paterno was told by the witness to one incident had he had seen. He had no power to fire Sandusky from his unconnected org.

Oh shit...yeah I forgot Sandusky left in 1999, it was way before I started watching football lol