I've been pondering Nehusta's postings about the evils of Jesus, and I'm wondering if Jesus could be the Antichrist instead of the Christ? I am relooking at the scriptures citing the evils of Jesus, and they appear to be the opposite of what Christians think he was. Any comments?
Is Jesus the Antichrist?
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
Jesus Christ AntiChrist Superstar
Very thought provoking, MW. Thought you might like to check out this link http://angelfire.com/ks/luciferian/jesusanti.html
Very thought provoking, MW. Thought you might like to check out this link http://angelfire.com/ks/luciferian/jesusanti.html
Re: Jesus Christ AntiChrist Superstar
Re: Jesus Christ AntiChrist Superstar
Good thread MW!
Thank you for posting this link, heart - it's a good one!
Here are a couple more links to ponder (two of my personal favorites):
Things We Didn't Find Out in Sunday School
Jesus: The Truth
Enjoy!
Good thread MW!
Thank you for posting this link, heart - it's a good one!
Here are a couple more links to ponder (two of my personal favorites):
Things We Didn't Find Out in Sunday School
Jesus: The Truth
Enjoy!
Re: Re: Jesus Christ AntiChrist Superstar
Originally posted by Nehushta
Good thread MW!
Thank you for posting this link, heart - it's a good one!
Here are a couple more links to ponder (two of my personal favorites):
Things We Didn't Find Out in Sunday School
Jesus: The Truth
Enjoy!
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M*W: Wow! These are interesting! As I was reading Jesus: The Truth, it dawned on me that when/if Jesus was hanging on the cross and he said, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?", was he speaking to Satan? or did God leave him and Satan possess him? Since the Biblical God seems to be such a historical baddie, could God be Satan? Then Jesus would the the Son of Satan. This does open up a whole new perspective of Christianity, or should it be called "Satanity?" And if Jesus actually lived through the crucifixion, it had to be on account of some very good sorcery, I would think. On a grander scale, though, just think about all those "Christians" who believe in the wrong god but don't know it!!! Boy will they be shocked on Judgment Day!
Nehushta,
Thank you for the great links! It will take some time to read them, but I did get a chance to read one of their articles, Re-examining the Faith: How can anyone criticise Jesus?.
I'd like to quote from it.
All I could think of was the verse Malachi 3:6 which states, "For I am the LORD, I change not ..." With that in mind I find it funny how Jesus, aka god, changed many laws that went against "god"/ himself. To me this would only confirm Jesus isn't "god" -that or god is lying.
Thank you for the great links! It will take some time to read them, but I did get a chance to read one of their articles, Re-examining the Faith: How can anyone criticise Jesus?.
I'd like to quote from it.
All I could think of was the verse Malachi 3:6 which states, "For I am the LORD, I change not ..." With that in mind I find it funny how Jesus, aka god, changed many laws that went against "god"/ himself. To me this would only confirm Jesus isn't "god" -that or god is lying.
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LostInThought7
Registered Senior Member
Come on now....
I'm not even Christian and I can argue some of the things in the "The Truth" link. I agree, Jesus probably isn't God, but saying that he is a liar because.... well, like this:
1> Jesus doesn't know when he will come back
2> He will come at time when no one is expecting him
To say, "Jesus doesn't know when he'll come back, so he doesn't know if he will come back when someone is expecting him...", that's, well, whatever. It seems fairly obvious that he doesn't mean he's going to wait around until no one is expecting him, then come. It means that no one can expect him at a certain time, because nobody knows when he will come back.
I believe that Jesus was a good man, with honest intentions. He saw a religion that had gone bad, and tried to change it for the better. In my opinion, yes, he was a liar, but it got a whole lot of people to stop killing innocent animals and start loving their neighbors...
Paul, on the other hand, was a complete ass. It was he who changed the religion into something evil.
I'm sorry, but I haven't read all of these links, and that's never good, talking as if you had authority about something you haven't fully explored, but I'm going to sleep now, very tired...read it tommorow...
I'm not even Christian and I can argue some of the things in the "The Truth" link. I agree, Jesus probably isn't God, but saying that he is a liar because.... well, like this:
1> Jesus doesn't know when he will come back
2> He will come at time when no one is expecting him
To say, "Jesus doesn't know when he'll come back, so he doesn't know if he will come back when someone is expecting him...", that's, well, whatever. It seems fairly obvious that he doesn't mean he's going to wait around until no one is expecting him, then come. It means that no one can expect him at a certain time, because nobody knows when he will come back.
I believe that Jesus was a good man, with honest intentions. He saw a religion that had gone bad, and tried to change it for the better. In my opinion, yes, he was a liar, but it got a whole lot of people to stop killing innocent animals and start loving their neighbors...
Paul, on the other hand, was a complete ass. It was he who changed the religion into something evil.
I'm sorry, but I haven't read all of these links, and that's never good, talking as if you had authority about something you haven't fully explored, but I'm going to sleep now, very tired...read it tommorow...
Do you, like some christians on this forum, believe that Jesus is God? If so, then Jesus had changed laws, which you can read in the article I made reference to, that "god"/himself had made. LOL you know...it's 2:40 am my time and my eyes are going cross..I'll try to explain what I meant when I'm more alert.
The Jesus Christ Superstart article?
Very little bearing on truth.
Very little bearing on truth.
No, this was a colt that had never been ridden. The mysterious owner is most certaintly an angel. This is why Jesus told is disciples to say "The Lord needs it".
"Love your neighbor as yourself" is not a new commandment.
Healing someone is not breaking the sabath. Were the Jews really meant to close their hospitals on the sabath? Furthermore, picking the grain like this is allowed by Deuteronomy 23:26, "When you go through your neighbor's grainfield, you may pluck some of the ears with your hand, but do not put a sickle to your neighbor's grain."
Isaiah 53:2 says "He grew up like a sapling before him, like a shoot from the parched earth; There was in him no stately bearing to make us look at him, nor appearance that would attract us to him."
Like Roman scourging would not cause any marks?
Satan is incapable of love. There is no love within him.
One of God's strictest commandments was to remember the sabbath day, which God had defined as the seventh day of the week (i.e., Saturday), and keep it holy (see Exodus 20:8). No work whatsoever was to be done on this day, under penalty of death (see Exodus 31:15, 35:2, Deuteronomy 5:14). The sabbath day was to be kept by the children of Israel throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant (see Exodus 31:16).
Jesus could easily have chosen to honor this perpetual covenant by restricting his healings to the remaining six days, but he deliberately chose instead to make it an issue by doing healings on the sabbath, and in the temple, no less! One woman he healed had been afflicted for 18 years, and another man for 38 years - what was the big emergency that they couldn't have waited another day?
It wasn't so much that Jesus wanted to do good on the sabbath - he simply wanted to break this covenant between the Jews and their God, and the healings were nothing more than an opportunity for him to get his foot in that particular door. He justified this by saying that the sabbath was made for man, rather than vice versa, and then used this false premise to "prove" that the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath (see Mark 2:27,28), and also by denying that his Father had known any sabbath up until that point and so neither should he (see John 5:17). Please note that this last item is very telling about who his Father is, or at least, who he isn't. Finally, Paul came along and dismissed the sabbath altogether, along with a number of God's other laws(see Colossians 2:16,17).
Note that Christians have changed the sabbath, which was supposedly established by the god they worship as a perpetual covenant, from the seventh day of the week to the first day of the week. So much for the idea that God is unchanging, or that Christians really care one way or another.
By all means, okinrus, feel free to add anything you like to the gospel stories - Matthew certainly did.
See my previous post. Smoke and mirrors, sleight of hand - magicians' tricks to get you to look the other way so that you do not discover the deceit being performed right before your very eyes. This is what Jesus did best.
Who said anything about Satan loving anyone? Appearing as a loving messiah and being a loving messiah are two completely separate things. If Satan can present himself as an angel of light (see 2 Corinthians 11:14), then why not as a loving messiah?
Nehushta,
The same God that created the seventh day created the eighth. The issue about the sabbath is only an issue if you don't have enough faith in God to believe He can continue being involved in the creation He started.
The "perpetual covenant" was not broke, it was fulfilled. The day of rest was the day of God, and when He resumed working, we started celebrating a new covenant: that of the resurrection.
You see, Nehushta, the law could only perpetuate rest. Have a look at Genesis again: when does the seventh day end? Was the "an evening and a morning"? Do you know what eternal rest is called, eternal sleep? Death. And that is what Paul frequently calls it. The law could only condemn you for not keeping the sabbath - it was powerless to allow love to be greater than it. And love is the whole of the law. The fact that Jesus assumed the authority to exercise something as simple and self-evident as love against the authority of God's own law showed that He was the authority: the sabbath was made for man (i.e. to exercise and honour love), not man for the sabbath!
Jesus roused us from the sleep induced by the sabbath and perpetuated by blindly and ignorantly "keeping the law". And He did it in every sense of the word: by rising from the dead.
That is why we celebrate the Sunday - the day Jesus rose from the dead - as the "Day of the Lord."
The same God that created the seventh day created the eighth. The issue about the sabbath is only an issue if you don't have enough faith in God to believe He can continue being involved in the creation He started.
The "perpetual covenant" was not broke, it was fulfilled. The day of rest was the day of God, and when He resumed working, we started celebrating a new covenant: that of the resurrection.
You see, Nehushta, the law could only perpetuate rest. Have a look at Genesis again: when does the seventh day end? Was the "an evening and a morning"? Do you know what eternal rest is called, eternal sleep? Death. And that is what Paul frequently calls it. The law could only condemn you for not keeping the sabbath - it was powerless to allow love to be greater than it. And love is the whole of the law. The fact that Jesus assumed the authority to exercise something as simple and self-evident as love against the authority of God's own law showed that He was the authority: the sabbath was made for man (i.e. to exercise and honour love), not man for the sabbath!
Jesus roused us from the sleep induced by the sabbath and perpetuated by blindly and ignorantly "keeping the law". And He did it in every sense of the word: by rising from the dead.
That is why we celebrate the Sunday - the day Jesus rose from the dead - as the "Day of the Lord."
Jesus established more than that:
Matthew 5:43
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
But decide for yourself:
Matthew 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Mark 12
30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' [Deut. 6:4,5 ] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' [Lev. 19:18] There is no commandment greater than these."
Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
I believe the Jews used the word gentile.
Paul's answer would have been:
Colossians 2
15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
Love your enemy, but hate your family if you wish to be a disciple of Jesus (see Luke 14:26). I know we've been through this one before, but there is no explanation that can justify hating your family, or even putting Jesus first above your family. Jesus had no love or respect for his own family, and replaced them in his heart with the little cult he created. He expected his disciples to do the same.
No, I'm not adding anything. There is a later account of Peter and John following the man holding the water. My interpretation combines both as one concept.
I hate to inform you but Jesus healed by praying to his Father in heaven. Are you saying that it is wrong to pray on the Sabbath? Jesus does nothing without the Father(John)? So the concept of Jesus working without the Father is foreign to the gospel and must be dismissed.
Why would Satan instruct his servants do to the opposite of what he wants?
What Jesus said was in aramaic and the aramaic word for hate can mean put aside.
Then please present your case here so that we may all examine the alleged facts of the matter.
Ah, but who was his father? That is what needs to be established here. Jesus claimed that his father knew no sabbath, and indeed it is said the Devil never takes a day off. You must be more careful in your assumptions, okinrus.
Anyway, where did you ever see Jesus praying to God or anyone else in order to heal someone? Sometimes healing occured simply by someone touching the hem of his garment - where did prayer enter into it?
Think about it - what goals have Christians attributed to Satan? Wasn't it his loftiest goal to turn the Jews away from the God of Israel and to go after other gods their fathers didn't know? Posing as God incarnate and getting the Jews to worship him instead would certainly work out to his benefit in the long run. Getting the Gentiles to follow suit was just icing on the proverbial cake. Is that really so difficult for you to see?
And why should anyone put their family aside? Is this what you think the 5th commandment was about?
The 5th commandment is "honor your father and mother". This is fullfilled in the new commandment of "honor your Father and Mother."
In John, Jesus says that he does nothing without the Father and that he does whatever the Father has shown him because like a good son, he only does what the does.