Is it right to discriminate against tobacco smokers

[PieAreSquared]

It's getting ugly in Oregon, and the democrats are responsible.



They banned smoking from bars and taverns. They have increased the tax on a pack of smokes by 60 cents.

That was a nationwide tax increase... and as far as the bars... thank your neighbor state to the south for that... Cali was the first to do it .. for health reasons????..and everyone follows...

yeah I can down a couple of pitchers of beer.. but smoke...OMG.. the poor barmaids can't choose their job... yet some factory worker can be right by someone welding.

 

[Bowser]

yeah I can down a couple of pitchers of beer.. but smoke...OMG.. the poor barmaids can't choose their job... yet some factory worker can be right by someone welding.

Yep, the whole secondhand smoke fraud has perpetuated the anti-smoking zeal to make smokers miserable.

 

[PieAreSquared]

I think I would have more respect for their tax motives if they would do the same on alcohol.. every smoker I have known who kicked off was also a heavy drinker. No doubt the death statistic will be place under smoking.

 

[RubiksMaster]

I don't smoke, and I don't particularly enjoy being around cigarettes, but the whole smoking ban thing is getting way out of hand. It doesn't matter whether second-hand smoke is dangerous or not. What matters is that the government doesn't have the right to tell a business what that business's customers can do within that private establishment.

The bottom line is: It's not a right to go to a restaurant or a bar (or any other private building). It's a completely voluntary agreement between you and said business. If you don't like the fact that people are smoking, then don't go. It's that simple.

 

[Norsefire]

Personally I'm glad people can't smoke indoors. When you're have to share a relatively confined air space it'd be awful rude of you to smoke there, I can only hold my breath for so long. Smoking physically affects everyone in the room. Not just the smoker.

Ok, what if I thought it was rude for you to drink water in public?

Oops, that means we have to criminalize it!

 

[CutsieMarie89]

I don't smoke, and I don't particularly enjoy being around cigarettes, but the whole smoking ban thing is getting way out of hand. It doesn't matter whether second-hand smoke is dangerous or not. What matters is that the government doesn't have the right to tell a business what that business's customers can do within that private establishment.

The bottom line is: It's not a right to go to a restaurant or a bar (or any other private building). It's a completely voluntary agreement between you and said business. If you don't like the fact that people are smoking, then don't go. It's that simple.

I'd have to disagree. I mean isn't that whole private establishment thing the same excuse people used so they could keep their "No Colored People" signs up. They could always eat at home, right?

 

[CutsieMarie89]

Ok, what if I thought it was rude for you to drink water in public?

Oops, that means we have to criminalize it!

You obviously didn't catch the last sentence. I said smoking physically effects everyone in the room. When you drink water, even if I think it's rude or disgusting, you aren't actually doing anything to my person physically, if I turned around I wouldn't have to look at you do it. But if someone starts smoking in a room and I have to inhale that air. Which causes the coughing and gagging. If something only effects you personally then I don't have a problem with you doing it. But smoking doesn't effect just you, it effects everyone in the vicinity.

 

[Liebling]

Yep, the whole secondhand smoke fraud has perpetuated the anti-smoking zeal to make smokers miserable.

Citions for this please? Please link scientific research and data proving your point.

 

[Norsefire]

You obviously didn't catch the last sentence. I said smoking physically effects everyone in the room. When you drink water, even if I think it's rude or disgusting, you aren't actually doing anything to my person physically, if I turned around I wouldn't have to look at you do it. But if someone starts smoking in a room and I have to inhale that air. Which causes the coughing and gagging. If something only effects you personally then I don't have a problem with you doing it. But smoking doesn't effect just you, it effects everyone in the vicinity.

Then you, as the property owner, have a right to remove me from your property (or whoever's property it happens to be).

Pretty simple, the way I see it.

 

[swarm]

They have reduced my kind to a minority and are taking full advantage of the situation by subjecting smokers to exclusionary status within our society. If it was anybody else, there would be an outcry proclaiming discrimination.

No one can figure out where to draw the line concerning drug addicts like yourself who have disgusting habits they have to constantly feed, but which contaminate the atmosphere around you ruining it for every one else.

Having you go out side seems fair since your addiction is such that you can't go any length of time without another hit.

Of course there are forms of your drug which don't require smoking.

 

[swarm]

Ha, they banned smoking in pubs here.
Cue large numbers of people buying six packs and staying at home.
Cue large increase in pubs closing due to loss of revenue.

Good. The market is working as designed.

 

[swarm]

It doesn't produce smoke, but it does produce vaporized nicotine, which means that it makes invisible second-hand "smoking", and so is almost as dangerous as real smoke.

Actually the nicotine, while it is a highly addictive vasoconstrictor, it is not the main source of the carcinogens. These tend to be the traces of heavy and radioactive metals combined with the compounds in the tars and various additives they use to flavor the smoke and keep the cherry burning (you'd be surprised how much crap goes into cigs besides tobacco.

The nicotine does exacerbate the problem by killing your lung cillia, preventing them from cleaning all that gunk out though.

Some one just vaporizing the nicotine would have the same cancer exposure, more or less, as some one using gum or a patch. The main look out here is heart disease from the constant vasoconstriction, well and being a drug addict with an uncontrollable habit to feed.

 

[swarm]

Why did they ban smoking in pubs ?

On the face of it as a public health measure, but mainly because every body else got sick of the constant smoke.

 

[swarm]

Yeah, we are seeing the same thing here. I will still go to the bar for a draft, but I won't stay for two. There just doesn't seem to be much incentive in going to the bar when you must stand outside for a smoke.

So as a public health measure it is both reducing smoking and drunks being out on the streets, sounds win-win.

 

[Bowser]

No one can figure out where to draw the line concerning drug addicts like yourself who have disgusting habits they have to constantly feed, but which contaminate the atmosphere around you ruining it for every one else.

Having you go out side seems fair since your addiction is such that you can't go any length of time without another hit.

Of course there are forms of your drug which don't require smoking.

It's not just an addiction, it's a pleasure. And I thoroughly enjoy my tobacco. My smoking hurts no one. As for ruining it for everyone else, I don't believe everyone is as sensitive as you assert. Second hand smoke is harmless, and most people don't care if it's in their environment.

 

[Bowser]

So as a public health measure it is both reducing smoking and drunks being out on the streets, sounds win-win.

It just another invitation for the government to intervene in our lives. Any time you invite the government to regulate your freedom, it's a definite loss.

 

[Bowser]

On the face of it as a public health measure, but mainly because every body else got sick of the constant smoke.

That's BS. Name one person who got sick from second hand smoke. It's a fallacy to believe that second hand smoke has harmed anyone, and it's an excuse for the finger-shaking nannies to moan about others.

 

[PieAreSquared]

It's not just an addiction, it's a pleasure. And I thoroughly enjoy my tobacco. My smoking hurts no one. As for ruining it for everyone else, I don't believe everyone is as sensitive as you assert. Second hand smoke is harmless, and most people don't care if it's in their environment.

I ride a bicycle I don't own a car.. a gallon of gas weighs six pounds...it doesn't disappear..US daily consumption of gasoline is 390 million gallons/day.. that's over a million tons of crap everyday into the atmosphere..lot more than cigs.

I work outside and I am legally entitled to a healthy work environment.. please take your pollution elsewhere... maybe inside a pub

 

[Enmos]

On the face of it as a public health measure, but mainly because every body else got sick of the constant smoke.

What's wrong with smoke ?

 

[Bowser]

I ride a bicycle I don't own a car.. a gallon of gas weighs six pounds...it doesn't disappear..US daily consumption of gasoline is 390 million gallons/day.. that's over a million tons of crap everyday into the atmosphere..lot more than cigs.

I work outside and I am legally entitled to a healthy work environment.. please take your pollution elsewhere... maybe inside a pub

Your point regarding automobile pollution is a good example of how silly the panic over second hand smoke has become. This world offers far greater dangers than anything a cigarette can produce.