Is it Rape?

Asguard said:
SAM say i hand you a syring with what i say is adrenilin and you in good faith give it to someone having an anaphalatic reaction and it is infact almioderone (stops the heart). Who is guilty of murder?
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Possibly nobody. Murder requires intent to kill, or reckless indifference as to whether somebody dies. This situation is one in which SAM presumably has a reasonable belief that the syringe contains adrenalin. So, she could not be guilty of murder.

This is very different to the given scenario in which the "friend" knows full well that he will be carrying out a rape scenario. If he has not obtained consent from the "victim", then he is at least recklessly indifferent to whether consent is in fact present. This most likely means that he could be convicted of rape.

...and if the person is tricked into paticipating in a real rape...
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How likely is that? "Oops, your Honour. I was tricked into raping that woman! I was too stupid to even consider the possibility that she might not be consenting. Duh! Silly me."

The responcable party is the person who knowingly tricked them.
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You can't absolve yourself of responsibility for your own actions by claiming "I was only following orders". See the Nuremburg trials of Nazi war criminals, for example.
 
on your first point it was my intention to kill pt x for whatever reason:p Hense murder for me, nothing for her (though you should actually double check the vial before injecting anyway)

the only following orders only applies to the millatry in cases where you know something is wrong and do it anyway because you were ordered to.

If your partner tells you to park here, ill be back in a min and then goes and robs a bank and uses you as a get away there is no criminal intent and hense no criminal responcability.

Now if you want to talk about if the person is an idiot thats a different matter and would depend how elabrate the plan to trick them was but as far as criminal responcability i dont by that.

Lets say your a sex worker and you recive a call for a rape fantasy at x address, your told key will be under the mat, let yourself in, do it and leave and paid in advance. It turns out the women on the phone wasnt the person you went to see because she had set you up. Is this rape? YES but the criminal responcability is to the person who set you up, not to the person who did it
 
James R said:
Sex without consent is rape. In this hypothetical scenario, you did not consent to sex with the friend. Therefore...

Simple.

Legally, your husband could also be convicted of rape under laws relating to criminal conspiracies.
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I agree with James.
 
Orleander said:
Pretend

My husband tells a friend that we are into bondage and have been toying with acting out a rape fantasy. We've pretended ourselves, but it's just not 'real' enough. He asks him to help with the fantasy. The guy agrees.
He breaks into the house (through a door my husband left open) and rapes me.
The thing is, I knew nothing about it. It wasn't my fantasy, it was my husband's fantasy to see me hurt, humiliated, and raped.

Should the friend be charged with rape?
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it totally depends, if it was a fantasy and he planned it then no, however if you said no at the time and he didnt stop then it was rape, many women like they're men planning things like that
 
Asguard said:
there is another senario i saw along these same lines from the plot of an NCIS episiode. Guy breaks into women's house and starts to rape her and she shoots him, NCIS investigates and finds emails which suggest that she invited him over and that they shared "rape fantasy" on a sex site. Now the plot gets more complicated but if we stick to this alone its suggested that because she "asked him" to come over (turns out he faked the whole thing and blah but anyway) that its not rape.
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Not the same situation. he had some form of consent. but again. A woman or a man for that matter can always withdraw consent.

Now in this case the person has acted in good faith and the criminal responcability lies with the husband.
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No, they acted recklessly and showed incredibly poor judgement. And this resulted in a rape. If I were the judge I would take the situation into account in sentencing. But the guy is a dangerous moron.

And by the way. If you let him off. any husband can then suggest the same thing to him, he can rape again, in good faith, and use his last rape charge as precedent.
 
lucifers angel said:
it totally depends, if it was a fantasy and he planned it then no, however if you said no at the time and he didnt stop then it was rape, many women like they're men planning things like that
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If the woman said, 'throw me a surprise rape', maybe.. I have serious doubts that many women like that type of thing though.
 
I know for sure that if I was that friend, I would have demanded to have a talk with the woman first so we could agree on a 'safe word' she could use if she felt unsettled and wished to stop the scenario.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
Sure, but what if part of the game is that you're supposed to scream and cry and beg him/her to stop?
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Which is why as long as they nail the husband for the crime they would go easier on the friend.

The friend was duped. He is guilty mostly of being stupid.

But what if we changed it to a really long time established friend where the friend also knew the woman quite well. Maybe there was talk of her being a little kinky etc. Then the proposal is made.
 
visceral_instinct said:
I know for sure that if I was that friend, I would have demanded to have a talk with the woman first so we could agree on a 'safe word' she could use if she felt unsettled and wished to stop the scenario.
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I agree. Otherwise you would never know for sure. Especially if she was a good actor.
 
Sputnik said:
It is rape as long as you have not received consent from the wife .... you can not
do anything like that by request from another person ... not even a husband !!!!!!
And any adult person should know that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well said.
 
Orleander said:
Pretend

My husband tells a friend that we are into bondage and have been toying with acting out a rape fantasy. We've pretended ourselves, but it's just not 'real' enough. He asks him to help with the fantasy. The guy agrees.
He breaks into the house (through a door my husband left open) and rapes me.
The thing is, I knew nothing about it. It wasn't my fantasy, it was my husband's fantasy to see me hurt, humiliated, and raped.

Should the friend be charged with rape?
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No, although he should be punished. He should have checked with you beforehand.
Your husband should be punished for rape or something of equal weight.
 
See, this is what happens when amateurs play with fire. No safe word.
 
The light not fantastic

Yes. One of the problems with rape fantasies is that they aren't real.

The real thing, as I understand it, ain't so fantastic.
 
S.A.M. said:
Its rape. You rape a woman because your friend tells you to without ascertaining the womans POV? That makes you a shmuck. If she did not consent to sex with you, its rape. Now the fantasy should be real enough with the rapist going to jail.
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How about this. The guy meets with his friend and the woman he believes to be the "victim" in the rape fantasy. They agree upon a safe word, but unless she uses the safe word, the "rapist" is supposed to ignore her pleas and proceed with the fantasy. Unbeknownst to him, the girl he met is not really the guys wife, but just some girl he hired to play his wife for that meeting who looks a lot like her. So now the "rapist" shows up, does the deed despite the wife's pleas that he stop since she never utters the safe word (he assumes she's acting).

Is that rape? Who is the rapist?
 
madanthonywayne said:
How about this. The guy meets with his friend and the woman he believes to be the "victim" in the rape fantasy. They agree upon a safe word, but unless she uses the safe word, the "rapist" is supposed to ignore her pleas and proceed with the fantasy. Unbeknownst to him, the girl he met is not really the guys wife, but just some girl he hired to play his wife for that meeting who looks a lot like her. So now the "rapist" shows up, does the deed despite the wife's pleas that he stop since she never utters the safe word (he assumes she's acting).

Is that rape? Who is the rapist?
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Since for all he knows the girl is the wife, and acting, he is not the rapist.

The husband is.
 
Both the husband and the friend are prosecutable. The husband has coerced the act of rape and whether or not the friend assumed this woman was consenting she was not. The sexual offences act states there must be a test of reasonable consent. If she took them both to court the law would be looking to find. 1, A statutory definition of consent, 2, a test of reasonable belief in consent, an evidential and conclusive presumption about consent and the defendant's belief in consent. None of which had been verified by the "friend". The husband is definitely guilty of fraudulent coercion.
 
madanthonywayne said:
How about this. The guy meets with his friend and the woman he believes to be the "victim" in the rape fantasy. They agree upon a safe word...
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It's not clear whether you're saying there is direct contact between the "friend" and the woman in making this "agreement". If not, then there hasn't been any agreement between the woman and the "friend".

On the other hand, let's change things a little. Say the husband draws up a written agreement, then forges the wife's signature. He gives this to the "friend", who then goes through with the rape. In that case, there may be an argument on the friend's behalf that he reasonably believed he had the consent of the woman, but that he was mistaken.

In real life, though, I'm sure that at some point the "friend" would have to realise that it was all a bit too realistic, causing him to doubt that consent was real.
 
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