Suppose a person didn’t believe in god but lived a generally good life, never seriously harms anyone, helps others when he can, and donates some of his money to charity. Could it possibly be fair for god to send this otherwise good person to hell simply for being mistaken about god’s existence? I’ve never really heard a good answer from a christian on this. How could a “just” god punish someone eternally in hell simply because they held a factually incorrect belief? It astounds me that anyone could seriously call it “just” for a person to be condemned to an eternity of suffering simply because they weren’t smart/lucky enough to reach the correct conclusion. If god would do that, it seems that god is an incredibly petty, self-centered being who has no concept of justice.
Is it fair to send people to hell for being mistaken?
- Thread starter Nasor
- Start date
Nasor, excellent thread and excellent question. This is one my favorite issues to ponder and discuss.
What if an atheist is held at gunpoint (hypothetically) and forced to chose between him being tortured and dying slowly or his family being tortured and dying slowly? If the atheist chooses his family over himself then wouldn't God see that as a noble and heaven-worthy action? For "greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends."
What would become of this noble atheist? I am with you, Nasor. I see it as unlikely that someone who laid down his life for his family or friends or at least lived a generally pious life could go to hell.
Many Christians would argue that if Person A doesn't mentally believe facts X, Y, and Z that they are damned to hell no matter how good of a person they are or how good of a life they led.
Interesting how many atheists actually live much more "moral" or "Godly" lives than most Catholics, who claim to believe certain facts.
What if an atheist is held at gunpoint (hypothetically) and forced to chose between him being tortured and dying slowly or his family being tortured and dying slowly? If the atheist chooses his family over himself then wouldn't God see that as a noble and heaven-worthy action? For "greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends."
What would become of this noble atheist? I am with you, Nasor. I see it as unlikely that someone who laid down his life for his family or friends or at least lived a generally pious life could go to hell.
Many Christians would argue that if Person A doesn't mentally believe facts X, Y, and Z that they are damned to hell no matter how good of a person they are or how good of a life they led.
Interesting how many atheists actually live much more "moral" or "Godly" lives than most Catholics, who claim to believe certain facts.
Internal morality is infinitely better than externally forced morality. Either "God" knows this, has an insane huge ego, or does not exhist.
Yeah, now why don't you exercise some internal morality and admit how internally immoral you really are:
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies...
Behold, Thou (God) desirest truth in the inward parts...
Now, given the above...
Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to Thy Word...To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
Photizo,
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. - Romans 3:19
It is not your obedience to God that is valued and rewarded, it is the purity of yout heart, thoughts and actions.
It is your internal morality.
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. - Romans 3:19
It is not your obedience to God that is valued and rewarded, it is the purity of yout heart, thoughts and actions.
It is your internal morality.
Jesus said that people would not find Heaven but through him.
I believe that he meant that if you follow his teachings, you will be judged good and worthy of heaven.
What did he teach?
Purity of heart, mind and actions.
He taught compassion, love, understanding, integrity.
He taught that you should live a virtuous life.
It's really as simple as that.
I believe that he meant that if you follow his teachings, you will be judged good and worthy of heaven.
What did he teach?
Purity of heart, mind and actions.
He taught compassion, love, understanding, integrity.
He taught that you should live a virtuous life.
It's really as simple as that.
its truth.
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
Who said it had to be fair?
everything in this life is fair.
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies to the truth, than lies.."
The believer and the doubter, one and the same, I say.
Its the truth for me. This life is what we make of it and thereafter. Yes, we are the same.
Blah blah blah 2000-3000 thousand year old talking parrot reigns supreme....not.
Thanks but uhh I'll figure it out for myself. Next time just post the wiki link to the bible or something.
Well said!
This seems to be (from what I see anyways) the "heart" of all religion and the one that binds them all together.
The hidden divinity concept which even the New Testament refers to.
Of course any gnostic teachings in christianity are, for the most part, now considered heretical.This was to be expected after christianity was bastardized into it's present from.
Unfortunately so much of the rest after this binding factor just seems to fall into the realm of man written dogma according to each groups geographic location,cultural habits/traits,etc.
"Your internal morality" is a myth...that this is true is illustrated by the very scripture you quoted...your inept wielding of "the Sword of the Spirit has caused you to stab yourself in the foot.
The evidence suggests otherwise.
Tell me exactly how.
The quote says that it is not the observation of the law that makes one "good".
One can be "bad" and still obey the law.
That's funny coming from you. Put down your lightsaber and your Bible and think for yourself a bit.