Is Hell Bad for Believers?
- Thread starter Mickmeister
- Start date
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
Sigh, ok. Fine, if they are fact, please present me hard scientific evidence. Then I will believe you.
Ya know what, its not even worth trying to discuss this with someone who refused to acknowledge an existence outside of a religious text.
Sandy, this discussion is held atleast once a day here on SF. And yet we continue to butt heads. When will the world move past our ideological differences and just accept me as I would accept you?
Hell is REAL, it is generated by anger, fear, sorrow, sin, and other destructive thought-energy (karma). Upon death if one has the thought-energy (karma) leading towards hell, then verily they shall wind up in the hellish universe, and enter into this universe generated by their own thought-energy (karma)
The foolish, unable to understand how hell, heaven, etc...can exist say "Well it doesn't seem like hell exists, so it must be false", such fools, because they cannot comprehend how it can exist doubt develops in their minds, wanting to ease and destroy the doubt seeded in their minds they say "it must be fictional" only to prevent the doubting feeling from arising, not in seeking the truth. Only after the many-worlds and many-minds interpretation are proven true will they even consider it.
Truthfully, faith in Jesus prevents this, but also faith in Buddha, Krishna, or any other perfected being, sincere faith guarantees ensures that you can never wind up in hell, also doing pure good deeds guarantees it...
"A run-of-the-mill person having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, goes to hell, to the animal womb, to the state of the hungry shades. But a disciple of the Blessed One, having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, is unbound right in that state of being. This, monks, is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor, between an educated disciple of the noble ones and an uneducated run-of-the-mill person, when there is a destination, a reappearing" - Gautama Buddha
The foolish, unable to understand how hell, heaven, etc...can exist say "Well it doesn't seem like hell exists, so it must be false", such fools, because they cannot comprehend how it can exist doubt develops in their minds, wanting to ease and destroy the doubt seeded in their minds they say "it must be fictional" only to prevent the doubting feeling from arising, not in seeking the truth. Only after the many-worlds and many-minds interpretation are proven true will they even consider it.
Truthfully, faith in Jesus prevents this, but also faith in Buddha, Krishna, or any other perfected being, sincere faith guarantees ensures that you can never wind up in hell, also doing pure good deeds guarantees it...
"A run-of-the-mill person having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, goes to hell, to the animal womb, to the state of the hungry shades. But a disciple of the Blessed One, having stayed there, having used up all the life-span of those devas, is unbound right in that state of being. This, monks, is the difference, this the distinction, this the distinguishing factor, between an educated disciple of the noble ones and an uneducated run-of-the-mill person, when there is a destination, a reappearing" - Gautama Buddha
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
But see, thats what Im trying to say... The question of whether hell does or does not exist in any shape, form, or function cannot be answered through scientific analysis. I am not saying hell does not exist, I am not saying it does exist. I am simply stating that because I have no evidence or reason to believe that it does exist, I choose to believe that it does not exist until I can be proven otherwise.
You seem to get very angry with atheists VitalOne. Does this concern you? You might be adding to hell.
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
I can show you chemicals in the brain that produce the feelings of love and compassion. I can show you the right tools so that you can see air... throw up sand, when it falls, what is it passing through? Jesus Christ has not been scientifically proven.
Well yeah, but because I have a higher dhyana I can easily exhaust the bad karma in a few seconds, where as an ordinary person, not having any dhyana, not having any faith, unable to control their impulses, thoughts, feelings, etc...will be unable to exhaust the bad karma, it will remain in them
Although you're right I should stop it...though I wish everyone would control their impulses, it would benefit all
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The young sometimes find prefer reversing social norms for the rebelious spirit involve...especially in teens. Bucking authority is part of youth as we seek a firmer grasp of who we are. Mostly likely most are not considering the consequences of their actions from getting involved i spiritism. It can also be called a lack of basic bible appreciation and knowledge which is a common reality throughout the world.
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
What if one has faith in a different belief system other than Christianity? Does the same rule apply to karma, in your opinion?
This seems to be the overall concensus of hundreds of cases of Near Death Experiences that I have read.
If your spirituality is low you are naturally attracted to a "hell-like "state but it's not eternal as some dogma in religion dictates. There is always a chance to move to the higher spiritual realms once you realize the error of your ways,even if that takes a long stretch of time.
If you have practiced good selfless acts in your life and shown unconditional love your spiritual vibrations will be high and will only allow you to fit into a heavenly realm that accomodates such.
I would not agree it's a literal belief in the person themselves (the last thing I believe Jesus wanted was a personality cult built up around him) but rather a faith in the "essence" of what these enlightened masters represented. That essence being attaining what they had ..total communion with God.
As one person who had an NDE claimed: When he asked the being of light (God) what was the best religion to follow ,the answer was "whatever one brings you closest to God".
And we should take for granted that you know better than we do, right?
Can't you see how manipulatively you communicate? You speak in a manner where you create a situation where the audience simply has to take for granted that you know better than them. If they don't, they receive your scorn.
Yes. If you don't get saved before you die.
And it's NO party.
Who told you that?
First, I get the impression you are using the word "dhyana" in the same context as "faith", and that is a big falacy dude.
"Dhyana" is powerfull, very Zen, no faith required, it is just one going with the flow of nature, just like not trying to swim against the current of the river of life within yourself, it is meditation. And you are right, "dhyana" is the only way of exhausting one´s bad karma, but it is not a goal, it is not an action. It is movement in repose, it is awareness.
Just by the fact of "controlling" one´s natural impulses is going against the flow of your inner reality, it is not dhyana; dhyana transcends impulses, because it is a state of non-desire. The only way to practice meditation is if you do it just for meditation´s sake, not for achieving any goal, that is dhyana.
If you want to put faith in the equation, it is wrong, because faith is an action, you have faith that something will happen, therefore it is not dhyana. Dhyana is the goal and the device together.
When a person is true, he speaks like a flower releases its fraguance... The flower don´t say: "Although you're right I should stop it, I will not release any fraguance no more". That is a fake flower my friend, a plastic flower.
I'm not talking about faith...man you keep twisting my words, I mean dhyana as in concentration, mental control
, you don't know wtf you're talking about man, you speak out of your own material nature, not out of the truth, "What just seems true" or "what you heard was true"As for controlling impulses, you also lack understanding, if one controls their impulses, the controller is different from the impulses, they are not forcing anything like you falsely believe and going against anything, for instance if out of anger I controlled my impulses then it would be a contradiction, since anger is an impulse
Even Gautama Buddha agrees:
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable.1 A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment" (Lonaphala Sutta)
ROFL...a flower releasing its fragrance?Wisdom_Seeker said:
Although the mode of goodness is good, the goal is to go beyond material nature transcending all modes, your mind is still trapped in duality, thinking in terms of good and bad, this and that, such foolishness does not lead towards the truth, instead of seeing this as they are you see things as you desire them to be
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I'm not talking about faith...man you keep twisting my words, I mean dhyana as in concentration, mental control
As for controlling impulses, you also lack understanding, if one controls their impulses, the controller is different from the impulses, they are not forcing anything like you falsely believe and going against anything, for instance if out of anger I controlled my impulses then it would be a contradiction, since anger is an impulse
Even Gautama Buddha agrees:
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual takes him to hell? There is the case where a certain individual is undeveloped in [contemplating] the body, undeveloped in virtue, undeveloped in mind, undeveloped in discernment: restricted, small-hearted, dwelling with suffering. A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual takes him to hell.
"Now, a trifling evil deed done by what sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment? There is the case where a certain individual is developed in [contemplating] the body, developed in virtue, developed in mind, developed in discernment: unrestricted, large-hearted, dwelling with the immeasurable.1 A trifling evil deed done by this sort of individual is experienced in the here & now, and for the most part barely appears for a moment" (Lonaphala Sutta)
I´m beggining to see that everybody "twists" your words Vital.
Those things are no way of achieving anything, but illusions of the mind. What the Sutras are describing is a man who has become like that, he transcends duality because he is true to himself. Not a man who trascended duality because of that description.
I´m not talking about the mode of goodness; I´m talking about the mode of truth.
This is the same evangelical nonsense spouted by most fundamentalist Christians who really don't have a clue other than the indoctrination they received from their familes. Thier holier-than-thou, patronizing attitudes are typical of the hatred and bigotry that have formed much of the society we currently live in the Americas.
These are extremely dangerous people who lack any kind of education and the ability to think rationally. They are and will continue to be the downfall of mankind.
Well not neccesarily, you could still wind up in hell if you're a seemingly good person and still wind up in heaven if you're a seemingly bad person...all that matters is the karma or thought-energy at death
Well I would agree that IT DOESnova900 said:
You see people like you and other intellectuals say in your mind "I cannot understand how faith in anyone would work, so it must mean faith in 'essence'", you have done this to satsify your own insecurites, craving, desperation, etc...and have avoided the truth, and in doing so turned your back upon the truth.
You see people like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and ANY perfected being were the truth, the way, the light, etc...so if you have faith in them you will move closer to these things. This is not a figurative or symbolic thing, they quite literally are the truth...
When someone has faith in Jesus and constant rememberance or thoughts of Jesus, they are focusing and concentrating their minds upon Jesus (even if they don't know it), therefore they are focusing their minds upon the truth, the way, and bringing themselves closer to the truth, this is how and why faith in any perfected one works...the foolish unable to comprehend this say "oh it just doesn't seem so, what can faith do?"
"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" - Jesus (John 14:6)
"O conqueror of wealth, there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread" - Krishna (BG 7.7)
"The subject on which I meditate is truth.
The practice to which I devote myself is truth.
The topic of my conversation is truth.
My thoughts are always in the truth.
For lo! My very self has become the truth" - Gautama Buddha
However, I agree with the NDE assertion whatever one brings you closest to God is best for you, thats a great way of saying it, and its true, everyone is different, but I also agree that faith in Jesus or Buddha will work and greatly increases your chances of going into a heavenly world as opposed to a hellish world
The truth applies everywhere....if someone isn't Christian but has the karma leading towards heaven, then still they will go to heaven
Ofcourse belief in Christ reduces your chances of going to hell
The evil generation of vipers that Jesus had appeared to, if they had no faith in Jesus would wind up in hell
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