Is God Real?

G

Glow-in-dark-jesus

Registered Member
This is a very controversial subject. Religion is based on "faith". Faith in the unknown; unquestionable faith. Honestly I want more proof; Scientifical, tangable proof. There are an enormous amount of religions. Every single one believes they are right, just as much as the other; yet almost all of them have nothing to prove their religion is real execpt for a book e.g. the bible. Who is the bible written by? "Prophets" that have "seen" what has and what is going to happen. This is all dismissable. Espiecally in an argument. One of my very good friends said to me once, "Religion is the last defence of an ignorant person". I believe this is true. If all you are basing your arguments on is "faith" then you are ignorant. Until someone can give tangable evidence that there is a true God there is no reason to believe in it.
 
. . . scientifical, tangible proof . . .
. . . There is an enormous number of religions . . .
. . . every single one believes it is right . . .
. . . This is all dismissible . . .

So, who's ignorant again?
 
Well first of all not I. Thank you for picking out my mistakes in grammer, wordusage, ect. but I wasn't asking for a Language Arts lesson. Honestly, can your mind even function well enough as to reply with an intelligent response pretaining to the topic?
 
Hi Glow,

Welcome to sciforums.

Your point is well made and accurate.

No religion has anything of substance just fantasies, and hence easily dismissable.
 
Religion is always an intriguing subject.

I believe that it was Voltaire that quipped "had there been no God there would have been a need to create one."

Kierkegaard seemed to feel that religion could not be proven by rational thought but has to be taken on faith.

Marx on the other hand opinioned that religion was the "opiate of the masses"

Perhaps it is more a matter of belief making it so. If you believe then it is real; if you do not believe then it is not real.
 
Functioning minds

Originally posted by Glow-in-dark-jesus
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Well first of all not I. Thank you for picking out my mistakes in grammer, wordusage, ect. but I wasn't asking for a Language Arts lesson. Honestly, can your mind even function well enough as to reply with an intelligent response pretaining to the topic?
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(Well, dark-jesus, welcome to sciforums. Our minds function quite well, thank you. This subject has been discussed at length on the forum for months. Since you're new to the forum, I suggest you go back and read the posts before asking a question that's already been discussed.)
 
M*W,

This subject has been discussed at length on the forum for months. Since you're new to the forum, I suggest you go back and read the posts before asking a question that's already been discussed.
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Most topics on religion have been discussed many times since sciforums began.

No conclusions are ever reached.

There is no harm in continuing the issue in this thread.
 
Originally posted by Glow-in-dark-jesus
This is a very controversial subject. Religion is based on "faith". Faith in the unknown; unquestionable faith. Honestly I want more proof; Scientifical, tangable proof. There are an enormous amount of religions. Every single one believes they are right, just as much as the other; yet almost all of them have nothing to prove their religion is real execpt for a book e.g. the bible. Who is the bible written by? "Prophets" that have "seen" what has and what is going to happen. This is all dismissable. Espiecally in an argument. One of my very good friends said to me once, "Religion is the last defence of an ignorant person". I believe this is true. If all you are basing your arguments on is "faith" then you are ignorant. Until someone can give tangable evidence that there is a true God there is no reason to believe in it.
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Is the purpose of science to explore everything known, or everything known to be observable?

Honestly, can we hope to prove anything that exists outside creation? Why even assume we could measure its interaction with creation, if any?

For the sake of argument, if you knew of simple, very primitive but sentient life on another planet, and had a reason to love it so much that your very presence could be felt by those on that planet who loved likewise - how would they know you or prove your existence scientifically? Even after they became aware of your love, how would they go about to prove it? It's a very limited hypothesis, I know, but at least consider it.
 
Jenyar,

Is the purpose of science to explore everything known, or everything known to be observable?
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Neither. Science is a disciplined method for discovery of anything. There are no limitations.

If gods were in any way detectable then they would become objects for scientific study. Something that is only imagined, e.g. a god, does not represent such an object.

Honestly, can we hope to prove anything that exists outside creation?
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This isn’t an honest question. You presuppose ‘creation’. But if something is detectable then it can be investigated.

Your problem is that you keep claiming all these fantastic things for God and what he can do and his amazing love yet you cannot show that any of these things are anything more than your imagination. So of course science can’t detect such phantoms.

Why even assume we could measure its interaction with creation, if any?
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Because if something interacts with you then it is interacting with the material universe and that is detectable. But how do you show that a claimed fantastic interaction is not a far more readily believable and mundane personal delusion?

For the sake of argument, if you knew of simple, very primitive but sentient life on another planet, and had a reason to love it
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Love is an essential ingredient to your arguments but you never explain why this emotional state is raised to such a level that it becomes essentially deified.

…so much that your very presence could be felt by those on that planet who loved likewise –
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Yes it is a silly hypothesis.

how would they know you or prove your existence scientifically? Even after they became aware of your love, how would they go about to prove it?
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All you have done is proposed an impossible condition and then act surprised when you discover it is impossible.
 
Originally posted by Glow-in-dark-jesus
Religion is based on "faith". Faith in the unknown; unquestionable faith.
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No, religion is based on God. It is impossible to have faith in an "unknown."
You develop faith in God,
you associate with God's devotees,
you hear the word of God spoken from devotees,
you read a scripture,
you adhere to the rules and regulations,
then what was unknown can possibly become known.

Unquestionable faith is blind faith, this has nothing to do with religion, only the person.

Honestly I want more proof; Scientifical, tangable proof.
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What would constitute proof in your eyes?

yet almost all of them have nothing to prove their religion is real execpt for a book e.g. the bible.
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So you think the bible is proof that a religion is real uh?

Who is the bible written by? "Prophets" that have "seen" what has and what is going to happen. This is all dismissable. Espiecally in an argument.
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So what if it is dismissable in an argument? Anything can be dismissed.

One of my very good friends said to me once, "Religion is the last defence of an ignorant person". I believe this is true.
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Do you know what religion is?

If all you are basing your arguments on is "faith" then you are ignorant.
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You sound like a little boy/girl. Go and study some more about what religion, faith and God, is. And what they mean, then come back and ask proper questions, and hopefully you won't need to "act" as though you are open-minded.

Until someone can give tangable evidence that there is a true God there is no reason to believe in it.
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That's fine. Bye!

Love

Jan Ardena.
 
Cris: thank you, i could not have said it better myself... why must one rifle aimlessly through threads they have never seen before only to find there ISN'T a right or wrong answer to their question... there simply just isn't one at all...

Medicine Woman: perhaps, as your name insinuates, you should be more apt to provide a straight forward path for those seeking to be remedied from their woes/questions/trials rather than a winding road to nothingness...

Candy you said:
"Perhaps it is more a matter of belief making it so. If you believe then it is real; if you do not believe then it is not real."

i think you are so bang on with this one, it's not even funny... thanks for that reply, it makes so much sense to me... if i believe i am stupid, useless and deserve to die, chances are i will anchor myself to certain things or situations that will produce the desired effect... if i believe i am intelligent, worthy and deserve to live i will gravitate to things that will generate that existence

i've always been intrigued by the power of the subconcious mind, and realize, lately, i really should go back to investigating "it" rather than "religion".. i've decided actually, i will delve into the former realm for a time and see what happens... while i do find the concept of a God curiously inviting, religion has always rendered me bitter and contemptuous... i mean how can we logically disregard our humanity for the sake of religion and it's dogmas? ludicrous in my book... the whole devil, hell, judement thing sounds silly... like an almighty would even have a nemesis... it's so contradictory... almighty means just that, no? it does not mean halfmighty or morethan75%mighty but ALMIGHTY damnit...

i must admit... i have been shaken (almost traumatically) in the last week with respect to this topic... and i still don't know or understand more than i did before... but i do know this... Candy, your statement rings true for me... i suspect it could explain faith, believing you have faith, makes it so... even if you can not fathom what faith is or what fruit it bears, believing you know how to believe in something is in itself faith... perhaps it is faith in yourself but it is still something you just KNOW... thanks... you gave me a lot to think about this weekend... probably more than you'll ever know...

Glow-in-dark-jesus: i can't answer your question (if that was what it truly was??) nor can i permit myself to act as though i know what to say, but i am going to seriously think about what you have said.. the whole proof issue and whatnot and guess what, i think the difference between those of little faith and those of no faith is a thinner line than once suggested... just the fact that you question God (or a higher principium) means you ARE in fact seeking answers or perhaps solace or maybe even just the old god's honest truth... which in my book means it's something you feel the need to understand... rectify or ratify...

i've met a lot of atheists in my day and they dismiss the subject entirely, calling it a pointless exercise used by the weaker human mind to appease the fear of their mortality... and sadly far too remedial for their methodical intelligence and circle of "oh so knowitall relations" ... the very fibre of our nature is to understand all unproven concepts/precepts to the best of our ability... considering we only use 5-7% of our grey matter, greatly suggests that we are extremely lacking in perspective and need to pick up the pace... urgently...

i think it's great you need more proof... how about trying to find some? i wouldn't know where to look, but hey, the other 93-95% you possess could come into play somewhere in this equation... someday... wouldn't you agree? that is what revolutionary pioneers do... they change the way people see things and in turn change the world...

peace

D
 
Re: Re: Is God Real?

Originally posted by Jan Ardena
You sound like a little boy/girl. Go and study some more about what religion, faith and God, is. And what they mean, then come back and ask proper questions, and hopefully you won't need to "act" as though you are open-minded.
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you sound like an intolerant christian... isn't that what people with your "quick to judge" attitude are in essence... anyways? believe me, i have met many, many devout, GOOD God fearing christians who were some of the worst human beings i have ever encountered... pedophile priests aside for but a moment (no pun intended of course) Jan, religious people are the most insolent people when they hide behind their religion in their self-righteous indignation... what is wrong with the world is intricately woven in what Jan? RELIGION... a HOLY WAR is an OXYMORON... like jumbo shrimp or tolerant pope...

do you think the millions of people who have died at the hands of their fellow human beings simply because they did not BELIEVE or PRACTICE the same ridiculous, religious (man-made i might add) maxims, might find your statements to glow-in-dark-jesus slightly offensive and pompous? i would equate them as a direct attack on the human spirit itself (as it is constantly searching to understand it's experience on this sphere) and also quite indignant (as patience is a virtue which your christian God commands you to adopt) but more importantly, quite ignorant (you are perpetuating the very same intolerance Hitler, Stalin and a whole slew of other "foes of the Lords heavenly army" have done) you are even smug about it, as though you didn't even care about what you have just stated to the world)...

this is by the way, my opinion, or more like observation if you will... i am entitiled to it... you don't have to like it, but i really found your reply an accurate display of what a truly impatient person's response would have sounded like...

if i were a prophet, the first thing i would say to the world would be this:

"YOU WILL NEVER KNOW GOD UNTIL YOU KNOW YOURSELF, ONCE YOU KNOW GOD, YOU WILL KNOW YOURSELF"

if that makes sense to you... you my friend, are using far more than 5-7% of your "God given" (sarcasm detected) brain cells... and kudos to you for seeing through the facade this human society has contrived...

peace

D
 
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Re: Re: Re: Is God Real?

Originally posted by Exotic_D
you sound like an intolerant christian... isn't that what people with your "quick to judge" attitude are in essence... anyways?
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I've noticed you haven't commented on this; "Religion is the last defence of an ignorant person". I believe this is true."
Why? Don't you think that is a little quick to judge?
There's nothing intolerant in giving someone advice. Calling them a little boy or girl can be a bit harsh. But in this case i felt it necassery.
God fearing christians who were some of the worst human beings i have ever encountered... pedophile priests aside for but a moment (no pun intended of course)
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What are you telling me this for? I have eyes and ears, i can see things for myself. Like i said to the other chap, go and learn what religion really is, the essence, before it became this materialistic institution, then come back and put some decent point across.
Jan, religious people are the most insolent people when they hide behind their religion in their self-righteous indignation... what is wrong with the world is intricately woven in what Jan? RELIGION... a HOLY WAR is an OXYMORON... like jumbo shrimp or tolerant pope...
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Again, what does this have to do with religion, God, spirituality and the search for self-realisation?
do you think the millions of people who have died at the hands of their fellow human beings simply because they did not BELIEVE or PRACTICE the same ridiculous, religious (man-made i might add) maxims, might find your statements to glow-in-dark-jesus slightly offensive and pompous?
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Why?
i would equate them as a direct attack on the human spirit itself (as it is constantly searching to understand it's experience on this sphere) and also quite indignant (as patience is a virtue which your christian God commands you to adopt) but more importantly, quite ignorant (you are perpetuating the very same intolerance Hitler, Stalin and a whole slew of other "foes of the Lords heavenly army" have done) you are even smug about it, as though you didn't even care about what you have just stated to the world)...
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Dude! What are you ranting on about? Just tell me why you think i'm offensive, pompous, ignorant, smug, insolent and quick-to-judge. Oh, just caught this one, impatient. :)
this is by the way, my opinion, or more like observation if you will... i am entitiled to it... you don't have to like it, but i really found your reply an accurate display of what a truly impatient person's response would have sounded like...
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You mean you read the whole reply? Then why have you only focused on the one paragraph?
"YOU WILL NEVER KNOW GOD UNTIL YOU KNOW YOURSELF, ONCE YOU KNOW GOD, YOU WILL KNOW YOURSELF"
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I agree.
"God given" (sarcasm detected) brain cells... and kudos to you for seeing through the facade this human society has contrived...
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Didn't detect any sarcasm, i believe they are God-given! ;)

Love

Jan Ardena.
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Fear of things invisible is the natural seed of that which everyone in himself calleth religion.
~Leviathan, Thomas Hobbes~
 
Originally posted by Cris
If gods were in any way detectable then they would become objects for scientific study. Something that is only imagined, e.g. a god, does not represent such an object.
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Science: An amalgam of objects of human imagination which attempt to describe the human environment. Get a 'reality' check well you?
 
Marc,

Science: An amalgam of objects of human imagination which attempt to describe the human environment. Get a 'reality' check well you?
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But Marc, it would seem that my imaginary objects appear to be quite useful. For example the internet and the computer you are using to access these pages have been made possible through the imaginary objects discovered by science.

But your imaginary objects have delivered zilch.

You should seriously revise who needs the reality check here.
 
Re: Re: Re: Is God Real?

Originally posted by Exotic_D
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if i were a prophet, the first thing i would say to the world would be this:

"YOU WILL NEVER KNOW GOD UNTIL YOU KNOW YOURSELF, ONCE YOU KNOW GOD, YOU WILL KNOW YOURSELF"
----------
(Exotic_D, you are surely on the right track! I'd like to rephrase your statement a bit: "You will never know God until you know yourself. Once you know yourself, you will know God."

When I went searching for God, I found myself. In finding myself, I realized the importance of God's creation. I came to learn how important the human race is. Our life is a gift. The spirit we contain is most definitely a gift. What we do with our spirit is what we return to God.

Reading the posts, it's obvious that calling our Creator "God" is what's confusing. Although I believe in God, I don't see the same God as the theists. It IS the SAME God, but the perception is different. If I were an atheist, I would say there is no god. I'm not an atheist, so I say there IS a God. The problem lies in the image of the higher power. I DON'T see God as an entity, per se. I see God as an energy field. Therefore, I'm not sure if my perception of God is atheistic or not. I don't know why I still call it "God," because that's a misnomer but the only one I know for an invisible creative force.

As far as the creation of the universe goes, it would have happened anyway, even if we never heard the name of "God." So that brings me to the question, what would life be like if the Bible was never written? The ancients had beliefs in higher powers. Where would we be now if the Bible never existed? The confusion as I see it between theists and atheists is a result of the Bible. If our creative force of energy "inspired" the Bible, there is a lot of confusion that has resulted. The Bible was no more inspired than any other book. All things created stem from inspiration. If the Bible was inspired by God, there should be no confusion. The Bible was man-made and this is why it's inconsistent.

I don't like the name "God." It's a highly misleading name for the energy force it is. I'd like to coin another name for God, but I don't know where to start. My image of God can be explained by quantum physics, but I, however, am not the one to explain it. For those of us who believe in the force of energy that created the universe, we need to come to an agreement to do away with the name "God." There has to be a word that better describes the creative force.

There is a fine line between science and religion (as we know it). I can't explain it. Maybe some of you can. First, we must identify exactly what God is. Ultimately, I think we will acknowledge that, as human beings, we have the power of God in us all. We just need to rename it. Now, I understand Xians and other religions will rebuke this, but that's okay. Their perception of God is entirely different than science allows.

My purpose for suggesting this is to make the image of God a believeable force for religious believers and scientists. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I imaging atheists don't believe in the God of the Bible. Yeah, he's pretty hard to believe in. But atheists do believe in science. It's factual. It's real. I agree. The more I learn about the Bible and the Bible's version of God, the more atheistic I become. There's got to be a better explanation than what we've been given. Anybody care to comment?
 
Originally posted by Cris
But Marc, it would seem that my imaginary objects appear to be quite useful. For example the internet and the computer you are using to access these pages...
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But of course they're useful Cris, which illustrates the power of human imagination.
... have been made possible through the imaginary objects discovered by science.
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I would say science is purely imaginative, that is, purely descriptive. It only discovers the limitless realms of human imagination.
But your imaginary objects have delivered zilch.
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Well of course you would think that. But just one little reality check for you: the fact that you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there.:) You are just Cris remeber? Hope that helps.
You should seriously revise who needs the reality check here.
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I have no problem with science, nor do I have a problem with God being real.;) My reality encompasses both. Hope you understand. Have a good day Cris (I mean it), mine has been wonderful.
 
Science is a faith.
So is god.
They are both absurd.
There is only nihilism (even that is a belief)

I'm more intolerant than any religion.
I want to gas everyone who believes in god.
 
God (yaweh) tells us in the Bible that we are made from dust of the ground, well this is true the dirt is carbon based and guese what we human beings are too, look in the book of Enoch the Lord explains further the other components, God also told his people to circumcise on the 8th day after birth why? we now know that a baby's vitamin K is at it's highest vitamin K promotes healing.
but every day life trees,planets, and stars are all the proof i need.
 
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